Back on another thread I suggested that the left thinks many of us, such as poor people, minorities, women and conservatives of any stripe, are too stupid and helpless to do anything on our own.

Voter ID? Can't do it because poor people are too stupid and helpless to get a free ID.

We have to kill the first amendment and buy every women's BC because college educated women are too stupid and helpless to find a $9.00 supply at Target. And don't forget poor Julia, she can't exist without Obama's help in every stage of her life.

Welfare? No more making able-bodied people even try to make a living because they're too stupid and helpless to better themselves.

Start a business? Be successful? What do we know? The community organizer in chief says you didn't do it on your own? Jesus, how can anyone have the gall to think they made it on their own? We, the omnipotent, benevolent government did that for you!

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President Obama said in a speech at the weekend that governments and not individuals create jobs, telling entrepreneurs: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.'

He added: 'You didn't get there on your own. I'm always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart.'

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All I can say is, what an arrogant, ignorant a$$. Hopefully it's going to bite him in it.

So, how many of you can't get by without Obama's help? Ex?

In the President's 'through the looking glass' world ;the risk taker is the free rider .
Yes ;where would a successful business owner be without the taxman ,government regulator and bureaucrat?

Actually the President was parroting
A similar comment made earlier by Elizabeth Warren ( No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody.) She of course benefitted from her imaginary blond hair blue eyed native American ancestors.Did it ever occur to either of them that without the people who build businesses we would not have the means to build the infrastructure ?

I have worked in 2 start ups .My bosses could've been the same person . 15 hr days;going home and working the phones with customers until they virtually collapsed ;and then getting up early to open up the shop .Millions of small businesses began that way .

Of course the fact that a teacher taught you to read, means that everything you do from that moment on is due to the collective, not your individual efforts. And it is for that reason that nothing you own is actually yours.
Therefore, if the govt should demand that you surrender some of this property(wealth ,whatever ); that isn't really yours in the first place;... You have no right to object..

Yes and even though (some) of my teachers taught, I did the work, I earned the grades, no one did my schoolwork or took my tests for me.

It might be a Good Thing to quote President Obama's comments in context -- "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business — you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

President Obama's point is: Prosperous Americans, even those who have generated wealth through their own labor, should thank teachers, police officers, construction workers, and those in similar professions, for their efforts in helping them achieve such opulence. And in expressing their gratitude, they should be happy to pay more in taxes.

"You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did.

Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

WG's conclusion: We are not characters in an Ayn Rand novel, but are members of a living, breathing community who work together for the common good.

Thanks for the context but it changes nothing on my point.

"If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

How insulting.

And he didn't. There was a whole long line of people who made it possible for him to be a success. He didn't invent venture capitalism or print the first dollar bill. The very fact that he can sign his name means he got help from someone somewhere along the line.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

It might be a Good Thing to quote President Obama's comments in context -- "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business — you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

President Obama's point is: Prosperous Americans, even those who have generated wealth through their own labor, should thank teachers, police officers, construction workers, and those in similar professions, for their efforts in helping them achieve such opulence. And in expressing their gratitude, they should be happy to pay more in taxes.

"You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did.

Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

WG's conclusion: We are not characters in an Ayn Rand novel, but are members of a living, breathing community who work together for the common good.

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Excellent post. Thank you for putting it all in context.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And he didn't. There was a whole long line of people who made it possible for him to be a success. He didn't invent venture capitalism or print the first dollar bill. The very fact that he can sign his name means he got help from someone somewhere along the line.

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"You didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."

You're dancing around it and that changes nothing.

Hello:

A couple years ago, I drove the Baha Peninsula... It was beautiful. I wanted to move and start a restaurant.. They don't have ANY good American food...

But, I decided NOT to do it because there weren't any suppliers, there weren't any roads, and there wasn't any electricity. Now, I COULD have done it anyway, because I'm really smart... But, I'm NOT smart enough to overcome THOSE obstacles... Nobody is.

That is what Obama was saying. I guess you could call ME an arrogant a$$ for thinking I needed a road to my place... But, as usual, you guys really don't understand business.

excon

And the reason for your success is the road some benevolent government put there .It had nothing to do with the fact that you took the risk to build a business from nothing . You should find his comments insulting .

By extension .Does it mean if someone isn't a successful business person that they aren't getting enough from the government ? Maybe that explains Solyndra . They just didn't get enough government assistance.

Funny how no one apparently bothered to read the sourced article because business leaders are the ones pointing out how irresponsible and out of touch his remarks are.

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America's leading small business association has slammed Barack Obama for showing 'an utter lack of understanding' of the country's entrepreneurs when he told them: 'If you've got a business - you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen.'

In a hard-hitting statement to Mail Online, the National Federation of Independent Businesses (NFIB) president Dan Danne said: 'What a disappointment to hear President Obama's revealing comments challenging the significance of America's entrepreneurs.

Mr Danne added: 'His unfortunate remarks over the weekend show an utter lack of understanding and appreciation for the people who take a huge personal risk and work endless hours to start a business and create jobs.'

...

An NFIB spokesman added: 'I'm sure every small-business owner who took a second mortgage on their home, maxed out their credit cards or borrowed money from their own retirement savings to start their business disagrees strongly with President Obama's claim. They know that hard work does matter.

'Every small business is not indebted to the government or some other benefactor. If anything, small businesses are historically an economic and job-creating powerhouse in spite of the government.'

The NFIB was founded in 1943 and has some 350,000 members. It is officially a non-partisan organisation but tends to contribute heavily to Republican candidates. In 2010, 25 of its members, all republicans, were elected to Congress.

David Chavern, executive vice-president and chief operating officer of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, said that the basic idea behind Obama’s comments, and other similar sentiments expressed by allies, 'is really objectionable and offensive.'

'The problem with the Obama administration’s view, he wrote in a blog post, was that ‘it only looks at the good outcomes’ rather than what went before.

Mr Chavern wrote: ‘Success is apparently a collective effort - but where was that "collective" during the periods of risk-taking and failure? The vast majority of businesses fail. Period.

He added: 'Every day millions of people put their lives, savings, houses and families on the line and work 20 hours a day just to grab their small slice of the American dream. Where is the collective when all of this is going on? And if the collective is really responsible for success, how come everyone isn’t successful?

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But I get it, you guys share Obama's collective vision. So how about it, "if the collective is really responsible for success, how come everyone isn’t successful?"

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Originally Posted by tomder55

And the reason for your success is the road some benevolent government put there.

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I and my tax dollars are part of that "benevolent government." I helped Romney get where he is.

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By extension .Does it mean if someone isn't a successful business person that they aren't getting enough from the government ?

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Nope. That person failed because he didn't correctly use the tools at his disposal and let himself get in the way of his own success.

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An NFIB spokesman

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This NFIB?

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In 2010, 25 of its members, all Republican, were elected to the 112th Congress. A number of them, such as Rand Paul, Jeff Duncan, Paul Gosar and Kristi Noem, are affiliated with or endorsed by the Tea Party movement.

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Well of course they would say bad things. LOL.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This NFIB?
Well of course they would say bad things. LOL.

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As usual you rely on fallacies, attacking the source instead of the argument. Prove his argument wrong.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

As usual you rely on fallacies, attacking the source instead of the argument. Prove his argument wrong.

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Hello Steve:

It's easy. You can't build a factory in the middle of nowhere. If you think you can, then it's YOU who believes in fantasy.

Now, if you want me to prove what your DISTORTION is, I can't - because it's a DISTORTION.

excon

I realize that some industries can't exist without the government's help. Heck, they can't exist WITH the government's help such as Beacon Power,
SpectraWatt, Eastern Energy, Evergreen Solar, Solyndra, Abound Solar...

You can't build a factory in the middle of nowhere? Sure you can. What, you think the government owns all the bulldozers, trucks, cranes, etc. You've never been to Texas have you? Everything is in the middle of nowhere.

You guys equate taxpayers funded projects like roads with government benevolence, you think we ought to be grateful the feds allow us to keep a portion of our own money.

Roads weren't magically created out of thin air, workers and business owners pay for it out of what they earn. No one else pays my share, I pay my own way and get along in spite of the government and I'll be damned if I'm going shut up while Obama says "somebody else made that happen." Wrong, bucko.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...12823652_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

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This is a flat out lie. It is a fabrication of his own making. It is too bad this puppet president doesn't have a clue as to how things work.

As far as building a business in the middle of nowhere. It does happen once it makes it past the government that stands in the way. After that the business is responsible to build the roads that carry the infrastructure to the communities at large. And so long as we are on the fair share kick. Should there be restrictions on those that don't contribute and don't pay their fair share? Why should they benefit because they are on the wrong end of the scale? Think about what is really being said. It's a load of bull. It is not and has not been how this American system has been operated.

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

This is a flat out lie. It is a fabrication of his own making. It is too bad this puppet president doesnt have a clue as to how things work.

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Hello dad:

I don't know. Check out the ARPANET.. The Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) was the world's first operational packet switching network and the core network of a set that came to compose the global Internet. The network was funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) of the United States Department of Defense.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello dad:

I dunno. Check out the ARPANET.. The Advanced Research Projects Agency Network (ARPANET) was the world's first operational packet switching network and the core network of a set that came to compose the global Internet. The network was funded by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) of the United States Department of Defense.

excon

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Yes it was and Im well aware of that. After its invention it was turned over to universities to connect around the world to share information closer to real time. Business was banned from the internet. It wasn't until much later that the stirrings of business began to infiltrate the net. At first it was just to serve the people not to sell you something. It was basic information and drivers you could download. Then the next step that began the inroads was voip. That is when business started to step in and pour money into the infrastructure of the internet. From there video conferencing was born. After that the rest is history. Im well aware because I lived it from the baby shoes it once was having access at several major universities To helping some of today's major players get on board. You can thank Ma Bell for many of the major success stories as they held much of it together in the early days until they were split up.

Yep, it originated in the private sector and the private sector built it using taxpayer dollars, of which I contribute my fair share. The Defense Dept stole the guy that thought it up from the private sector and the company he left got the bid to build it. Do you even read your own articles?

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Yes it was and Im well aware of that. After its invention it was turned over to universities to connect around the world to share information closer to real time. Business was banned from the internet. It wasnt until much later that the stirrings of business began to infiltrate the net. At first it was just to serve the people not to sell you something. It was basic information and drivers you could download. Then the next step that began the inroads was voip. That is when business started to step in and pour money into the infrastructure of the internet. From there video conferencing was born. After that the rest is history. Im well aware because I lived it from the baby shoes it once was having access at several major universities To helping some of todays major players get on board. You can thank Ma Bell for many of the major sucess stories as they held much of it together in the early days until they were split up.

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Almost correct. Commerce and advertising happened way before VOIP or video conferencing. That makes sense since voip and video require precious bandwidth and 24k banner ads did not. I lived it, sold HTML specs, browsed it during the university hook up days etc...
Business almost ruined the internet for a while. Until they found a ways to monetize it.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Almost correct. Commerce and advertising happened way before VOIP or video conferencing. That makes sense since voip and video require precious bandwidth and 24k banner ads did not. I lived it, sold HTML specs, browsed it during the university hook up days etc...
Business almost ruined the internet for a while. Until they found a ways to monetize it.

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Business is still ruining the internet today. Huge companies like Google are marching all over personal rights of privacy and trying to make inroads into homes on a daily basis.

VOIP started a very long time ago. It matched computer voice to actual switching stations so you could make calls through the internet and only required 8k of bandwidth. The modern improved version of voip takes up a bit more room and normally uses a special modem to digitize the signal in a stand alone format. Before it was always computer dependent.

Netscape (yes I said it) to me was one of the best browser formats ever made. With their add on of netmeeting began the video link for corporate users. Early models of video over the net included cuseeme made by cornell university.

The old days were so much fun. Lol

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Originally Posted by califdadof3

Netscape (yes I said it) to me was one of the best browser formats ever made. With thier add on of netmeeting began the video link for corporate users. Early models of video over the net included cuseeme made by cornell university.

The old days were so much fun. lol

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Agreed. I remember Netscape with much fondness as well. After Cornell voip development seemed to have been taken over by the israelis for some reason.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Agreed. I remember Netscape with much fondness as well. After Cornell voip development seemed to have been taken over by the israelis for some reason.

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Its because they bought ichat. The chat program with the flower. Remember this is before Yahoo and MSN. They took it over because they realized that the information super highway was a give away to secrets. What better way to monitor then to own the company that provides the service??

Today the internet as we know it is nothing it started to be and is constantly evolving process. Just wait and see what it looks like in 20 years.

Back to the original statement I had made. I think if you remember right one of the polices in place when the internet was originated was the corporate entities were banned from it because it was thought they would spoil the well. The well of knowlage.


P.S. and disclaimer:

I am not nor have I ever been Al Gore :)

Back to the OP. So, how many of you can't get by without Obama's help?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Back to the OP. So, how many of you can't get by without Obama's help?

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OK, Back to the OP.. wait you are the OP. :)


We can all agree that we need to have community support to maintain the infrastructure and society as a whole. None of us has pockets that deep as to support everything.

Looking at the question from my viewpoint. This president isn't doing me any favors by how he is trying to run / ruin this country. I am thankful to my fellow citizens and my community for what is around me. But as far as holding the line on what I have and making improvements in my life that has nothing to do with the president. It has to do with personal goals and opportunities that I may find available. Everyone is responsible for decisions that they make through life and the changing of presidents is just one of the decisions that are faced along the way.

Attachment 40720

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Originally Posted by tomder55

They just didn't get enough government assistance.

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Tom you are ranting again, there are good investments and bad investments but industry isn't going to invest in technology unless the return is assured, so sometimes government gives them a push, sometimes that is military and sometimes it is not. It is easy to pick losers Tom and very hard to pick winners. Let me ask how is the Joint strike Fighter program going, why aren't you ranting against that?

Hello again,

Yes, let's talk about the OP. Wouldn't it be nice if we talked about what the candidates ACTUAL position IS on these issues, instead of a GOTCHA couple of words taken out of context??

BOTH sides do it. The problem for YOU and ME, is WE buy into it, post the BS, and challenge each other to justify it. Well, I got better things to do.

excon

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Tom you are ranting again, there are good investments and bad investments but industry isn't going to invest in technology unless the return is assured, so sometimes government gives them a push, sometimes that is military and sometimes it is not. It is easy to pick losers Tom and very hard to pick winners. let me ask how is the Joint strike Fighter program going, why arn't you ranting against that?

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I'm pretty sure I've posted comment on that . Being a huge fan of the F-22 Raptor ;I have taken the position that the F-35 Lightning is a huge waste of money .

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

Yes, let's talk about the OP. Wouldn't it be nice if we talked about what the candidates ACTUAL position IS on these issues, instead of a GOTCHA couple of words taken out of context???

BOTH sides do it. The problem for YOU and ME, is WE buy into it, post the BS, and challenge each other to justify it. Well, I got better things to do.

excon

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As opposed to taking Pennsylvania state House Republican Mike Turzai's comments out of context .

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Attachment 40720

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Or parking your yacht in Rhode Island instead of paying taxes to the state you represent.

Why is it do you think people put their money elsewhere? Hmmm??

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Originally Posted by tomder55

As opposed to taking Pennsylvania state House Republican Mike Turzai's comments out of context .

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Hello again, tom:

All I heard him say, is what I reported. If it was out of context, you could have shown me. Better yet, show me now. I'm a reasonable fellow. It's just that I'm NOT interested in discussing WORDS. Policy is MUCH more interesting...

But, if that guy said SOMETHING else in that statement, I'll retract and apologize.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

All I heard him say, is what I reported. If it was out of context, you could have shown me. Better yet, show me now. I'm a reasonable fellow. It's just that I'm NOT interested in discussing WORDS. Policy is MUCH more interesting...

But, if that guy said SOMETHING else in that statement, I'll retract and apologize.

excon

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Read your article. All of it.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Why is it do you think people put their money elsewhere? Hmmm?????

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To avoid paying taxes?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Read your article. All of it.

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Hello again, Steve:

I did. I read it VERY CAREFULLY.. I saw NOTHING about a LONGER statement Tirzai made that said something OTHER than what I reported... Oh, I saw where his SPOKESMAN said he meant something else. But, I did NOT see a statement where his words were taken out of context...

If it does, PLEASE show me.

excon

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

To avoid paying taxes?

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To avoid being punished for success.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

I did. I read it VERY CAREFULLY.. I saw NOTHING about a LONGER statement Tirzai made that said something OTHER than what I reported... Oh, I saw where his SPOKESMAN said he meant something else. But, I did NOT see a statement where his words were taken out of context...

If it does, PLEASE show me.

excon

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I didn't say it was taken out of context, I believe I've said something to the effect of you're reading things into it that just aren't there and that's what the spokesman explained. Not allowing dead people and dogs to vote makes it fair.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I didn't say it was taken out of context, I believe I've said something to the effect of you're reading things into it that just aren't there and that's what the spokesman explained.

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Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, the spokesman TRIED to tell me what I heard.. But, I HEARD what I HEARD... And, I reported to you EXACTLY what I heard.. I even showed a tape of him saying it. His meaning is CLEAR. It was NOT taken out of context.

Now, you may believe that you didn't hear what you heard. But, I can TELL what I heard, from what I DIDN'T.

excon