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Hello:
The right wing tells us they only want to insure the INTEGRITY of the vote.. Then why does THIS right winger think it's to insure a Romney victory?
Pennsylvania state House Republican Mike Turzai got very candid in a speech to the state's Republican committee. He said that newly passed voter ID laws would allow Mitt Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.
We knew it all along.
excon
Conversely ,ineligible voters will help Obama win the State ?
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
If I was attempting to insure the integrity of the vote, I'd be WILLING to have a few ineligible people vote in order to make sure that EVERY legal voter has an opportunity to VOTE.. Throwing THOUSANDS of eligible voters OFF the rolls to keep, who knows HOW MANY fictitious voters from voting, is throwing out the baby with the bathwater...
Now, I'd be all over voter ID requirements if you can show me where illegal voting is a problem.. Any link will do. Plus, I'd be ALL for voter ID IF the states that NOW require them provided them FREE to all eligible voters... But, they're NOT doing that. I suspect they're doing that to make sure ELIGIBLE voters don't vote... That's voter suppression.
excon
I too think that voter fraud is an overstated issue. However ,I have no problem with laws that require voter id if they are evenly applied. But you can't say that 'THOUSANDS of eligible voters are being taken OFF the rolls ' in PA. I'd like to see the evidence of it anywhere else too.
And yes ,if there are states that don't offer free voter id cards ,they should. But Thirty-one states require all voters to show ID before voting at the polls.Are you claiming all of them practice voter suppression ? PA offers free voter id cards .So where's the beef ?
These states still have to comply with Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act. So if there is voter suppression then by all means challenge the state provisions.
This is interesting:
UFO Sightings Are More Common Than Voter Fraud | Mother Jones
I've heard it's a picture ID needed. I get a cute little card in the mail (Illinois) from the county Board of Election Commissioners, but no one has ever asked for it when I vote.
Lol ,I'm sure they don't ask the voters from the cemetery for id either .
I don't understand what the issue to having some form of photo ID, it is required for almost anything we do in life in the US. Try to open a bank account, heck my 11 year old son has a state issued ID.
It may appear rare, but ask about the election in Memphis TN a few years ago where the "dead" vote help swing the election. Requiring proper ID is not restricting anyone's rights. Anyone no matter their race, religion even sexual orientation can apply for a ID card
Hello Padre:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
The issue ISN'T ID.. It's that LOTS of poor people don't HAVE the ID the state is requiring... Now, if the state issued a FREE ID along with the new requirement, I'd say their intention is voter integrity... But, if they DON'T, I'd say their intention is voter suppression. The guy in my link AGREES with me.
excon
And if a voter has become homebound or is in a nursing home or is hospitalized or is a non-driver and lives in a bad neighborhood away from a DMV so no state ID can be easily obtained...
Absentee balloting provisions are common in all states.
The PA voter id is issued free .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
But now a photo ID copy must accompany the application.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
South Carolina does too, but MANY of the other voter ID states don't. It's a national issue.
You should excuse my skepticism, but would you LINK me to the website where it discusses it? Are they mailing them to ALL voters? Do they have to pick them up?
excon
Geeze maybe they should hand deliver them on a silver platter. Do voters have any duty and responsibility in the process ? Fr Chuck is right. You need an id ,and often a photo id for many common transactions . Voting should be no different .
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1472192.htmlQuote:
Under the new law, which Gov. Tom Corbett (R) signed in March, Pennsylvania will issue free photo ID cards to voters who can produce birth certificates or other proof of identify.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello tom:Quote:
Under the new law, which Gov. Tom Corbett (R) signed in March, Pennsylvania will issue free photo ID cards to voters who can produce birth certificates or other proof of identify.
But Applewhite, who marched in Macon, Ga. with Martin Luther King during the height of the civil rights movement and first voted in 1960, casting her ballot for John F. Kennedy, according to The Philadelphia Inquirer, doesn't have a drivers license. She never learned to drive, and she lost her other IDs when her purse was stolen years ago. She has asked the state for a copy of her birth certificate, but the state can't seem to find it. As a result, she can't get a photo ID that will allow her to vote in the November election.
Mailing them would be fine... But, they're not even going to do that.. Apparently, people like Miss Applewhite must provide ID in order to get the ID... And, she must DRIVE to get it, but she doesn't drive...
Nahhh, it's voter suppression...
Excon
So she has no id and you think she should be allowed to vote ? How about the illegal immigrant that lives in the house next to her ?
SPECIAL REPORT: Pennsylvania's New Voter ID Card Law CBS PhillyQuote:
Buterbaugh says the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation will the photo ID without charge to any voter who swears that he or she has no other ID that is acceptable for voting.“We have a list of things that we ask them, because some photo IDs that people already have will suffice under the letter of the law,” Buterbaugh tells KYW Newsradio. “So we go down the list of acceptable IDs and if they affirm that they don't have any other IDs, they sign a paper and then the ID is free for them.”
Register to VoteQuote:
Register to Vote by Mail
You can register to vote by mail in two ways:
Get a Voter Registration Mail Application form from the state or federal government. The Secretary of the Commonwealth and all county registration commissions supply Voter Registration Mail Applications to all persons and organizations who request them, including candidates, political parties and political bodies and other federal, state and municipal offices.
Download the Voter Registration Application. Print, complete, sign and deliver to your County Voter Registration Office by mail or in person.
As you see . There are provisions for getting the id for free (freebies I understand being important to libs ) and for obtaining one by mail . There are also absentee ballot provisions for those who can't make it to the polls.
And both parties have poll watchers and organizations to get out the vote... ususally including picking up voters and bringing them to polling places if they can't get there on their own.
I don't know what else they should do... pick them up in a stretch limo ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
http://www.votespa.com/portal/server..._ballot/585300Quote:
What I need to know about voting by Absentee Ballot due to the Voter ID Law
New identification requirements take effect in November 2012.
Voters must provide drivers license number, last 4 digits of Social Security Number, or a copy of an accepted photo ID when applying for an absentee ballot. Voters may provide identifying number to county over the phone, by email or mail.
Identification will be verified by the county board of elections before the voters ballot will be counted. Voters have 6 days following an election to provide the necessary identification.
UOCAVA voters and voters affected by the Voting Accessibility for Elderly and Handicapped Act are exempt.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Couple things... You make some assumptions that I don't.. SHE has NOTHING to fear fro showing up at a polling place. HE has EVERYTHING to fear.
IF the intent of the state was to PROMOTE voting, they could certainly inspect previous registration records to see if Miss Applewhite is eligible. And, I believe that IS the states job, instead of doing the opposite.
excon
There is nothing else to say. All your arguments have been answered . Pa. has a reasonable requirement for voting . The truth is that people who object to these minimal requirements don't want voter suppression all right.. They don't want to repress ineligible people from voting .
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Nahhh. You distort. I've stated many times here, that I don't want anybody voting who doesn't have the RIGHT to vote.
In fact, All I've EVER asked for here, is EVIDENCE that people ARE voting who DON'T have the right to vote. However, you NEVER show any, because there ISN'T any.
Here's how it works in this great land of ours, FIRST off we notice that a crime has been committed. SECOND off, we make laws against it. What we DON'T do, is makeup that somebody is doing something, and make a law against it.
So, unless you present EVIDENCE that LAWS need to be passed to protect the integrity of the vote, it's clear that your intention is to suppress the vote.
excon
And simularily ,when groups sue to block photo-ID laws in court, they can't seem to produce examples of people who have actually been denied the right to vote. I have seen someone successfully demonstrate that he could've voted in the primaries under Eric Holder's name without being asked any proof that he was Holder. Heck ,the guy never even identified himself as Holder and still the poll watcher was going to allow him to vote under Holder's name . That alone proves that most voting systems nationwide are too lax .
If that same person wanted to enter the Justice Dept building he would have to show a photo id.
Want to know why liberal of liberal States Rhode Island adopted photo id for voting ?
Because State Senator Harold Metts was told by several constituents of a pattern of voter fraud in Providence. His state representative and her daughter had their votes stolen by someone voting in their names in one election. So maybe they were lying ? Metts by the way is an African American . He took a lot of heat for sponsoring the bill .But he knows it was the right thing to do. The law was passed overwhelmingly by a Democrat legislature.
He said “It's time to stop crying wolf and make the voter-ID law work for those on both sides of this issue who want to ensure the integrity of the system, while guarding against disenfranchisement.”Letter: Why is Voter Integrity Still Being Ignored in RI? - Woonsocket, RI Patch
Indeed!!
More from Metts ;and this may cut to the heart of the matter:
"Historically, when Black people know the rules of the game they follow them to the letter and participate in the process. I take exception to those who give credence to stereotypes about our alleged inability or limited intelligence to participate in the democratic process. Moreover, as a candidate, I will make certain that those supporting me have a voter I.D., or know about the provisional ballot."
All I know is first ex said if they provide them for free he was OK with it.
But go ahead, keep moving the goalpost, ex. I know what you said.Quote:
"Plus, I'd be ALL for voter ID IF the states that NOW require them provided them FREE to all eligible voters... "
Hello Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Mailing it to them is free. Making them pick it up ain't free. Making them get an ID in order to get the ID, isn't free. It just ain't. There's no moving of the goal posts. Free is free, and everything else isn't.
excon
So you really don't want anyone to have to lift a finger to be responsible for themselves do you?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Voting is a right... If there's any heavy lifting involved, it should be the government doing it. Are they not charged with protecting our rights??
excon
What exactly should me a minimum qualification ? A pulse ? We know in Chicago they waive that one too.
Did you not read my response to Wondergirl ?
Here is all you need to get a mail order FREE id.
In case you missed it...
Heck ,you don't even have to provide the full SS #... you don't even have to prove that the SS card is actually you!Quote:
What I need to know about voting by Absentee Ballot due to the Voter ID Law
New identification requirements take effect in November 2012.
Voters must provide drivers license number, last 4 digits of Social Security Number, or a copy of an accepted photo ID when applying for an absentee ballot. Voters may provide identifying number to county over the phone, by email or mail.
Identification will be verified by the county board of elections before the voters ballot will be counted. Voters have 6 days following an election to provide the necessary identification.
UOCAVA voters and voters affected by the Voting Accessibility for Elderly and Handicapped Act are exempt.
How would I provide that?
What do you think a minimum level of proof should be to confirm you are eligible to vote ? Or do you think anyone who is here ,citizen or not should have that right ?
Well, for 44 years, I've been showing up at my polling place, said my name to the person sitting at the table, this person checked my name off on a long list (pages' worth) of registered voters, and then I voted.
So you think there should be no standards of proof at the polling place.
I haven't had to prove who I am for 46 years.
So the answer is no ;you don' t think there should be any standards of proving identity at the polls . Enfranchise for everyone ,eligible or not .
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Are you telling me that ANYBODY, or their brother, can just walk in and REGISTER to vote ANYWHERE, WITHOUT showing WHO they are?? I don't think that's the way it is, here in this great land of ours. They don't do that ANYWHERE.
You're just being hysterical.
excon
So there are no eligibility requirements to vote? At all? And if there are, you don't have to show proof of eligibility? What about the rights of American citizens to not have their elections tainted by fraudulent voters?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
What about our own DoJ, using a group whose mission is "to provide progressive organizations with the data and services needed to better identify, understand, and communicate with the people they need to persuade and mobilize," to challenge Texas' voter ID law? No bias there, eh?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
They have the right to be protected from the sky falling too, but you can't show me any more evidence of fraudulent voting than the sky falling.
Look. I'm on YOUR side. I HATE cheaters... SHOW me where we've been cheated, and I'll be outraged just like you.
excon
PS> (edited) I DO find it interesting that you're worried about illegal aliens VOTING, but you don't mind them donating unlimited amounts of untraceable money to political campaigns.. Makes NO sense to a fellow like me.
So because I haven't been robbed I shouldn't try to prevent robberies? Odd logic you have there, buddy.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Aliens, dead people, multiple votes, yeah, it should be prevented. And Sheldon Adelson was born in Boston.Quote:
PS> (edited) I DO find it interesting that you're worried about illegal aliens VOTING, but you don't mind them donating unlimited amounts of untraceable money to the campaigns.. Makes NO sense to a fellow like me.
REGISTERING to vote is one issue. Yes, the person registering to vote needs to show a picture ID (so they know that's him) plus at least two forms of ID to prove his residence, where he sleeps at night. In Illinois (and probably in most other states), a voter has to reregister with a new address if he moves. Registration/reregistration is closed a month before an election. I've registered and reregistered thousands of people while working in Libraryland.
At that point, the voter's name goes down on the rolls at the county election commissioner's office. That list is what the election judges have in front of them when I go to my polling place to vote. I say who I am and tell where I live (no ID is asked for), and my name is checked off. If my name isn't there at that address, I will be sent home without voting.
People who've moved and live at a new address used to not be allowed to vote, although now I think my state allows reregistering on the spot at the polling place. Because of early voting, registering with proper ID may be allowed now too.
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
MY logic? Dude! You DID hit upon a universal truth, even IF you used twisted logic to get there.
If robbery ISN'T a problem, of course you shouldn't be worried about it... Only a paranoid society makes laws against things that DON'T happen and NEVER did.
But, robbery IS a problem, of course, whereas the sky falling, I mean fraudulent voting ISN'T. I say again, SHOW me where you've been robbed, I mean where somebody FRAUDULENTLY voted, and I'll put in my worst pitchers..
excon
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