Hello again:
Didja hear? He smoked pot and wore come shoot me clothes. Maybe he was asking for it...
excon
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Hello again:
Didja hear? He smoked pot and wore come shoot me clothes. Maybe he was asking for it...
excon
It irritates me to no end that the media and the defense are trying to make him out to be the criminal here.
Question... If Trayvon Martin had been one of the 50 shot in Chicago on St Patty's day weekend ,would anyone know his name ?
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
It's true. If young black boys are carpet bombed, it's more acceptable... Cause there's too many to protest each one...
Why did you highlight Neva, the dead Iranian girl? Cause nobody cares about LOTS of dead Iranians...
excon
I hear conflicting sequence of events. What were they?
1. Trayvon went to convenience store to buy candy and soda. Was walking after dark to his dad's fiance's home in gated community. Was wearing hoodie, with hoodie over his head?
2. Zimmerman saw him, noticed he had hoodie on his head, suspected Trayvon was a gang member?
3. Zimmerman radioed police who told him to back off.
4. Zimmeman continued to follow Trayvon.
5. Trayvon asked, "Who's following me?" Was in cell phone contact with a friend.
6. Zimmerman, obeying police, returned around to go back to his SUV? Or he grabbed Trayvon and spun him around and Treyvon assaulted him?
How did Zimmerman get his injuries? Why hadn't he backed off when police told him to? (Or did he really and Trayvon followed him, assaulted him?)
Hello again, WG:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
You bring up a key issue that I'd like to expand on... Pursuant to the law, one may "stand ones ground" and use deadly force if one feels threatened. Can the provision switch sides during an altercation?
Let's say I provoke a fight with you. I get off the first punch and I'm standing over you. The law says you can shoot me. But, you don't. Instead you get up and start WINNING the fight. Now, I'm afraid that you're going to hurt me. Can I shoot you?
Let's say Trayvon was running away, as we know he was. It's ON the tape. Why wasn't HE allowed to "stand his ground", and break Zimmermans nose?
I wonder just who can stand who's ground?? I ask these questions to show how stupid and utterly useless the law is.
excon
Who had the gun? (Rhetorical question, meaning whose life was in danger at all times?)
Did Zimmerman ever have reason to use his gun? Trayvon had deadly fists?
Hello again, WG:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
The law doesn't turn on who's in ACTUAL danger.. It's who FEELS like he's in danger.
excon
It wasn't carpet bombing.. It was in the course of a typically violent Chi town weekend . But I did give a name of one of the victims ;a 6 year old girl named Aliyah Shell. I found that by accident . It is not a national story . Wonder why ?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
That Trayvon kid musta been some threatening killer type.
And for the hoodies ,I have mixed feelings about them now . On the one hand they are very convenient apparel in cool weather . But until this month I never considered them to be apparel that identifies me a someone who could be targeted ,nor did I wear them as part of an identity .
But I've been doing my research and came across a speech delivered by Philadephia Mayor Michael Nutter 8 months or so ago in the middle of a violent Philadephia summer .
Here it is (edited to remove the stuff not related to the attire ):
American Rhetoric: Michael Nutter -- Speech at Mount Carmel Baptist Church (transcript-audio-video)Quote:
If you want all of us — black, white, or any other color — if you want us to respect you, if you want us to look at you in a different way, if you want us not to be afraid to walk down the same side of the street with you, if you want folks not to jump out of the elevator when you get on, if you want folks to stop following you around in stores when you're out shopping, if you want somebody to offer you a job or an internship somewhere, if you don't want folks to be looking in or trying to go in a different direction when they see two or twenty of you coming down the street, then stop acting like idiots and fools, out in the streets of the city of Philadelphia. Just cut it out. And another thing. Take those doggone hoodies down, especially in the summer. Pull your pants up and buy a belt, because no one wants to see your underwear or the crack of your butt. Nobody. Buy a belt. Buy a belt. Nobody wants to see your underwear. Comb your hair. And get some grooming skills. Comb your hair. Running round here with your hair all over the place. Learn some manners. Keep your butt in school, graduate from high school, go on to college so you can go and make something of yourself and be a good citizen, here in this city. And why don't you work on extending your English vocabulary. Extend your English vocabulary beyond the few curse words that you know, some other grunts and grumbles and other things that none of us can understand what you're saying. And if you go to look for a job, don't go blame it on the white folks, or anybody else. If you walk in somebody's office with your hair uncombed and a pick in the back and your shoes untied and your pants half down, tattoos up and down your arm, on your face, on your neck, and you wonder why somebody won't hire you. They don't hire you because you look like you're crazy. That's why they're not hiring you.
So, you do those things, and act like you got some sense, and you'd be surprised what opportunities will open up to you. That's what was on my mind. That's all I've got to say.
Supposedly a witness has now come forward . I don't know if the witness is credible or not. The witness account says that Martin slugged Zimmerman in the nose ,knocked him down ,and proceeded to bash his head on the ground. I neither believe or discount this narrative any more than any other factoid I've heard of the case .
One question I've had that I haven't seen addressed is this . Most "gated communities " have guards at the gate. Did this one ? If they did ;did Martin use the gate to leave and enter the grounds ? And if they have a guard at the gate ,then why do they also need a community watch patrol ? Was Zimmerman acting on his own ,or as a sanctioned community volunteer ?
Here is the statement from the Sanford police. It is their answer to some of the questions that have been asked in the case. I make no conclusions from them ,
http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...n_shooting.pdf
Hello tom:
You missed it.. I posted that he wore "come shoot me clothes", because that notion is being propagated, and it's the MOST STUPID, and RACIST idea to come along.. It's like when a girl wears something sexy and she gets raped, some wrong wing misogynist would say, "well, what should she expect". She was wearing "come rape me clothes"...
And, you bought it.
To suggest that something is wrong with ME because people are scared of ME because of what I wear, says more about their RACISM than my choice in Haute couture.
excon
I guess the black mayor of Philadelphia is also as racist who bought into it. I guess when Bill Cosby condemned the hip hop culture he was also being racist. For that mattter ,so were W.E.B. DuBois and Booker T. Washington.
I'm still undecided on the case . More facts are being revealed daily that don't support the initial assumptions. .
I ask again ;where are the outcries to bring the killer of Aliyah Shell to justice . Her parents cries are being met with deaf ears.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Here's the difference... When the cops catch the guys who killed Aliyah Shell, they'll PROSECUTE them.. In Trayvons case, we KNOW who killed him, and the COPS are COMPLICIT in it.
That pisses a nation off. Your attempt to deflect failed.
excon
Not true . New revelations has shown that the cops wanted to book on manslaughter ,but the local district att. Told them that there wasn't enough evidence . Leaking of witness testimony (if believable ) confirms some of Zimmerman's claim .Quote:
and the COPS are COMPLICIT in it.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...to-charge.html
And if I was trying to deflect I would've mentioned all the recent black on white hate crimes.Quote:
Your attempt to deflect failed.
http://www.kmbc.com/r/30572405/detail.html
The problem that Rev Al Sharpton should be addressing is the violent crime inside the "black community " ;like the death of Aliyah Shell.
The difference is that when the find the perps they are going to jail, unlike Zimmerman who is free. Just breaking, the arresting cop didn't believe Zimmermans story, and wanted to charge him, but the prosecutor said NO!Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
That's the difference in your two incidences
I mentioned that already. Sort of makes a lie about that racist cop angle. Did you hear that the racist Zimmerman spent his free time doing volunteer work tutoring minority children ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I never said he was a racist. I said he was a killer. That's enough... When I speak about the "cops", the DA was included. As a group, they're COMPLICIT. As a group, their complicity is racist. You STILL haven't faced up to the fact that if Trayvon had been WHITE and Zimmerman black, Trayvon would already being serving his life sentence.
Deflection denied!
excon
Why did Zimmerman have a gun?
Because he is allowed to have a gun. It was properly permitted .
But irresponsibly used!!
Unclear. The local DA wouldn't prosecute even though the cops recommended it . Let the investigation continue.
With him in custody, or out on bail/bond, like everyone else who kills somebody for whatever the reason.
Charges ? The DA told them no .
Lets charge the DA too!
Maybe the state prosecutor will find something... or if not I'm sure Holder's Justice Dept will find some 'hate crime' to charge Zimmerman with . Zimmerman is the victim of his own last name . This case would not have made a spash on the national scene if his last name was Gonzalez.
So Tom are you saying a Hispanic can kill a Nergo and it doesn't rate a mention, strange I thought Hispanics were white men, but then maybe not, depends on which side of the atlantic you come from. I just can't understand your racist society where you have such distinctions between people over here we have citizens and non citizens and indigenous who are only identified for the purposes of dealing with disadvantage
You mean the judges son gets a free pass because he killed a black guy? Either you are being rudely sarcastic, or blatantly racist. This became a story, and went national when the parents reached out to others for support to get the facts of why their son is dead!Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yeah I can see where some would sweep this under the rug, and have it happen again. Only a racist would see a kid coming from the candy store as up to NO GOOD!
Clete, only RACISTS make that distinction, and deny equal protection under the law for those that don't look like them!Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
You like tossing that smear around .
No smear intended, just an opinionated observation.
Hello tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Would you answer this for me?
excon
Not familiar enough with the details of the law to make comment on the nuances. The DA didn't think he could make a case ,and now there is a State attorney investigating the case .
From my reading of the law there is a clear distinction between the aggressor and the one who is defending oneself ,and I do not believe those roles can be reversed . But I could not state that definitlvely .
I will try to answer it. The stand your ground is for law abiding citizens. In a case like this where at this time both sides haven't done anything illegal and an altercation ensues then both sides have the right to stand their ground. Now if one was in the middle of the commission of an illegal act they may forfeit that right.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Like if someone was entering your home for burglary and you caught them and it goes sour.
If 2 parties are fighting and it escalates with threats or otherwise then the law may take effect. Circumstance will prevail as to how the law applies.
Hello dad:Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
Well, that was as clear as mud.
excon
New rule, folks, or an old one, perhaps, thou shalt not kill, is anyone confused?
Me ?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Does that mean not kill like anything or just humans?
Yes I expect it was all inclusive however it was very specific advice given to humans, so read it either way but specifically that human should not kill human.Quote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
In this case one man apparently provoked another by his actions and then killed him when attacked. Both were wrong as the outcome resulted in death. They cannot be considered as equals as one man was armed and the other not. Now we know the law is an a$$ since it allows one to kill with impunity
The origninal text said do not murder . I think that was an important distinction.
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