The Justice Dept charged two men in an Iranian directed plot to assassinate the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the U.S. and fomenting terrorism on U.S. soil.

Elements of the Iranian IRG QOD force was ready to hire a drug-cartel hit squad from Mexico to do the act said U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder.

Prosecutors filed several criminal charges against Manssor Arbabsiar, a 56year-old naturalized U.S. citizen who holds Iranian and U.S. passports, and Gholam Shakuri,a member of a special-operations unit of the Iranian IRG. This assassination attempt would've used a bomb to kill the Ambassador and mass murder anyone else in the restaurant they were targeting .

Holder said Arbabsiar and his Iran-based co-conspirators had been plotting to assassinate the Saudi ambassador since the spring.

Question... how should the US handle this blatant act of war on US soil ? There is no doubt that the highest levels of the Iranian government are complicit in this plot .

On the news today they are talking sanctions... been there done that . Sanctions have not prevented the Iranians from their rogue behavior .

Do you think a well aimed cruise missile would deter Ahamadjihad? Proving that the Iranian government is complicit even though elements of their military are involved is difficult.

The US should step back and see this as a consequence of their own actions in assassinating OBL in Pakistan and various others outside their borders. No doubt the Iranians think the same rules apply to them.

Really ? Our attack on OBL,the leader of an organization of jihadists who mass murdered Americans in a decapitation attack can be compared to targeting a legitimate ambassador from a nation you are not at war with ,on foreign soil, where the agent considered and dismissed the possibiltiy that innocent Americans could be killed in the attack?? When did you become a proponent of relative equivalence ?

Our attack on OBL was taking out a legitimate target of war ,in a legal manner .Pakistan was duely warned against harboring AQ .They chose to ignore that warning.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Really ? Our attack on OBL,the leader of an organization of jihadists who mass murdered Americans in a decapitation attack can be compared to targetting a legitimate ambassador from a nation you are not at war with ,on foreign soil, where the agent considered and dismissed the possibiltiy that innocent Americans could be killed in the attack ???When did you become a proponent of relative equivalence ?

Our attack on OBL was taking out a legitimate target of war ,in a legal manner .Pakistan was duely warned against harboring AQ .They chose to ignore that warning.

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A lot of bull and bluster there Tom, You have to think like your enemy to defeat them. The Iranians are like the Americans they don't respect borders, so you have to expect that the lunatic fringe and that includes Ahmamadjihad will think they can do the same. There is no degree in being enemies, the biggest is fair game and the smallest is not, that is just bunk. You regarded OBL as a legitimate target anywhere in the world, the Iranians are probably of a similar view in regard to their enemies. What is happening here is once again the terrorists and fanatics are not playing by your rules or any rules for that matter.

Anyway if BO had the same guts as Clinton he would send Ahmamadjihad a cruise missile with his name on it. Perhaps you are a little short of cruise missiles after sending daffy messages.

Have they a declared war against Saudi Arabia ? No . The IRG is an elite force. It's ridiculous to make the claim that the things they do aren't approved at the highest levels of the Iranian government.
They have to be accountable for this . There are covert things we should've done a long time ago.
This is a race against time .When they have a nuke they also gain deterence .

I have a question for AG Holder. This investigation was well underway in late Sept. This clown Arbabsiar called his Mexican cartel connection to “get ready” to carry out the terror attack in Washington on Sept. 20... the same time the Mahdi-hatter was here for the UN meeting. On the 28th ,Arbabsiar attempted to travel to to finalize the arrangements .
The Justice Dept was aware of all these details.. They captured Arbabsiar when he returned to JFK Airport on the 28th. Does Holder have any evidence that Ahmamadjihad gave the plot his blessing while he was in NY?. and if so ;why wasn't he expelled or detained ?

BTW... the restaurant that was to be bombed is also frequented by US Senators and members of Congress. When asked if he was OK with that and the possibility of a hundred or more Americans killed in the attack ,Arbabsiar said f***-em.

Also charged in the plot is Gholam Shakuri, a high ranking member of Iran’s Quds Force special operations unit.
My next question to the Obots is ,why is this being treated as a criminal matter ?
The Qud's have been complicit in many US military and civilian deaths . This is not a criminal matter alone... It is also a political and military one .

Tom your thinking is twentieth century. 911 should have taught you there will be no declaration of war. You should know that Iran won't be the pushover Irag was and in any case you don't have the forces on the ground, so either you nuke them because they attempted murder and terrorism or you give them a smack on the hand with some more sanctions. How's that working out for you anyway?

You can't afford another war right now, the ones you have have all but bankrupted you and NATO won't have the appatite for another proxy war. So I expect much noise and posturing and perhaps even a UN resolution...

How would you Aussies react ? Tough talk and introduce resolutions at the UN... oooooh the bad guys of the world quake in fear over such reactions .

Simply put.. I have been and continue to be in favor of overt and covert assistance to the Green Revolution in Iran. Had we supported it from the beginning we would be talking about a completely different set of circumstances .

Time's wasting., every day they get closer to the nuke deterence they crave.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

How would you Aussies react ? Tough talk and introduce resolutions at the UN .... oooooh the bad guys of the world quake in fear over such reactions .

Simply put ..I have been and continue to be in favor of overt and covert assistance to the Green Revolution in Iran. Had we supported it from the beginning we would be talking about a completely different set of circumstances .

Time's wasting .,,,every day they get closer to the nuke deterence they crave.

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Haven't you interfered enough in that country's history? It is because of your policies we have the situation we have today. You might wonder Tom why various Muslim countries are paranoid about american interference. They have seen the impact of it and they have learned the lesson well. Why don't you send them a carrier task group or two. That'll teach them.

The day when american can interfere at will is fading and I say good ridence. How would we react if it had happened here, etc? We would have done exactly what you have done and put the perpetrators on trial. I have no doubt Krudd would have made a speech or two as the opportunity presented, but if anyone wants to start a war over an attack on an ambassador that is for Saudi Arabia to initiate.

Pehaps you would like to take a look at the commentary of someone expert in the field, who doesn't conclude that the Iranian government is behind these events. That is if you have the stomach for truth

Blaming Iran for terror plot risks 'uncontrollable war' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

It's that type of attitude that gives them the courage to continue to use terror as a foreign policy tool .
An attack on an ambassador is an act of war. A terror attack on a country regardless of the prime target is an act of war .

This is not the 1st time the Iranian military through it's IRG has attacked ambassadors and embassies. Argentina's Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires was car bombed, on March 17, 1992. A 1998 telephone call intercepted from the Iranian embassy in Argentina demonstrated conclusively that Iran had been involved in the attack on the embassy. They got away with it .Neither Israel nor Argentina acted in a way to deter further attacks. Decisive action is what is required... not posturing and treating acts of war as criminal actions.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

pehaps you would like to take a look at the commentary of someone expert in the field, who doesn't conclude that the Iranian government is behind these events. that is if you have the stomach for truth

Blaming Iran for terror plot risks 'uncontrollable war' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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You're joking right ? Robert Baer is a tin foil hat nut job. I don't care if he was at one time a spook. The CIA has their share of loon and he's one. He's also a self promoting blow hard.
But let's go with his conspiracy theories... How about this one... these charges came a day before Congressman Issa slapped Holder down and issued him a subpoena over 'Fast and Furious' gun charges ? Is this a wag the dog ? Holder's a Clintonoid so he's good at that .
Heck there's even a Mexican connection to the plot .
See anyone can play that game.. Why let the facts get in the way ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

See anyone can play that game .. Why let the facts get in the way ?

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That's right Tom the whole thing is bizairre. The Saudi's should be asking why would an american citizen attack their ambassador, but that fact is forgotten in the rush to deflect the blame to Iran

Well that's an easy question to answer since the Saudis themselves take large advantages of our open society to infiltrate . Do they think they are the only ones to plant a 5th column inside our borders ?

But not to worry . If our cops dare to monitor activities in expat neighborhoods, the civil libertarians do their chicken little act.


I find it very curious that you are defending a nation that has a proven track record of using terror surrogates as a tool of foreign policy .

I'm not defending them but due process, the evidence hasn't been presented yet that the Iranian government is behind the attack. I think the chicken little attitude is in fact the attitude of your government who have been quick to accuse the Iranians of a political motivation rather than waiting to view the motives

Quick to accuse ? Please ! This was an ongoing investigation for months . I think this is a crew of amateurs running our country full of preconceived notions about extending the hand of friendship to thugs like the Mahdi-hatter . They would not be making this charge without substantial proof. They have revealed what was necessary without giving their case away. There is still an IRG agent on the loose that has to be captured.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Quick to accuse ? They would not be making this charge without substantial proof. .

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I don't know about that Tom. Your administrations are quick to leap to illconcieved conclusions. We well remember the WMD in Iraq and the huge threat posed by NK. Rhetoric abounds, but truth is hard to find

History will prove both correct.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

history will prove both correct.

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I think you have once again found yourselves on the wrong side of history. We remember well the grave threat to the free world posed by Vietnam. And what do we have; a peacefull country who just wanted to be free of foreign domination. I think we need to view some of these situations from a different perspective, very unamerican, I know. We remember how you escalated the Korean conflict into a major war, with what result, years of fighting and no victory. Oh wait, do we find the same outcome in Afghanistan?

We escalated ? It was an invasion of the South . Yeah it would've ended much quicker without interventionit would've been a swift communist victory. Then the whole peninsula could live under the jackboot .Same with Vietnam ,there were millions slaughtered as a result of the communist victory. Yes you have already demonstrated you are comfortable with such regimes.

What amazes me is this reaction that claims the Iranians don't act in such a ham-handed manner when they have a history of such acts that mostly go unpunished .
These are unsophisticated thugs who cannot manage one of the most resource rich nations on the planet.

Finally ,I think their assessment of the Obot's response to this provocation is correct. So far the toughest talk has come from VP Biden"nothing is off the table "... ooooooooooooooooooooh... that's got them shaking in their jackboots!

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Originally Posted by tomder55

We escalated ? It was an invasion of the South . Yeah it would've ended much quicker without interventionit would've been a swift communist victory. Then the whole peninsula could live under the jackboot . Yes you have already demonstrated you are comfortable with such regimes.

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Yes escalated Tom Emperor of the East McArthur wasn't content with kicking NK but he had to play my armies better than your army with the Chinese. As I recall he was ultimately replaced or was that fired?

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Same with Vietnam ,there were millions slaughtered as a result of the communist victory.

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Why were they slaughtered Tom because their friends let them down. But who escalated the conflict?

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What amazes me is this reaction that claims the Iranians don't act in such a ham-handed manner when they have a history of such acts that mostly go unpunished .
These are unsophisticated thugs who cannot manage one of the most resource rich nations on the planet.

Finally ,I think their assessment of the Obot's response to this provocation is correct. So far the toughest talk has come from VP Biden"nothing is off the table "... ooooooooooooooooooooh... that's got them shaking in their jackboots!

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I think I know who is shaking in their jackboots Tom and it is unlikely to be the Iranians. Tough talk from Joe.

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But who escalated the conflict?

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Well the NV for one when they violated the terms of the Paris Treaty with a full scale invasion..

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Why were they slaughtered Tom because their friends let them down.

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Indeed ;the feckless Dems in Congress defunded our efforts .

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yes escalated Tom Emperor of the East McArthur wasn't content with kicking NK but he had to play my armies better than your army with the Chinese. As I recall he was ultimately replaced or was that fired?

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Wrong... the Chinese crossed the border and pushed our army almost off the peninsula. So what you had was first a NK invasion of the South and then a Chinese intervention .

Mac was fired for insubordination because he was a bit of an egotistical maniac. I'll grant that .

Why don't you two just call each other?

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Originally Posted by magprob

Why don't you two just call each other?

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I thought that's what I was doing, calling him on his wrong attitudes.

This is a discussion forum, which means issues get discussed... over and over again, ad nausium!

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Wrong ... the Chinese crossed the border and pushed our army almost off the peninsula. So what you had was first a NK invasion of the South and then a Chinese intervention .

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And why do you think the Chinese intervened? It was because McArthur pushed too hard at the border and made them nervious and fearfull of foreign aggression. He should have understood they were paranoid after years of Japanese occupation. That was perhaps the first occasion when the MAD policy, although in its infancy, didn't work. You have to look at what was in between the two events you described. You conveniently forgot that part.

No I didn't there was no way McArthur was going to cross the border . The Chinese were saving face because they sanctioned the invasion by the NORKS... something even the Soviets wouldn't do.

I don't believe you . You would have all Koreans living under the Kim Gulag.

No Tom pushing NK back over the 38th Parallel was fine, returning the favour by conquering the country a horse of a different colour and a huge failure in judgement. The NK-SK was an artificial construct just like EG-WG, one we are still living with the legacy of. Back in those days if something was politically too hard, partition it, and in most cases we still have these problem areas and belligerent parties facing each over over partition lines.

What you don't like is that this failure in US foreign policy has been shown for what it was. Something you couldn't bully your way out of.

I'm for a free and independent Korea . The Kim Regime has kept half the country imprisoned . You know where I stand . I wonder how you think the current division is a good thing . As history has proven ,the NORKS have been a menace to the region ;and are often used as surrogates for Chinese aggression.In retrospect stopping at the 38th parallel would've guaranteed what happened anyway I suppose . But I don't fault Truman for the effort to liberate all of Korea.

You should not concern yourself with this President. His foreign policy is bluster and deploy a token number of troops without so much as a public pronouncement justifying the action like he did today.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I'm for a free and independent Korea . The Kim Regime has kept half the country imprisoned . You know where I stand . I wonder how you think the current division is a good thing . As history has proven ,the NORKS have been a menace to the region ;and are often used as surrogates for Chinese aggression.In retrospect stopping at the 38th parallel would've guaranteed what happened anyway I suppose . But I don't fault Truman for the effort to liberate all of Korea.

You should not concern yourself with this President. His foreign policy is bluster and deploy a token number of troops without so much as a public pronouncement justifying the action like he did today.

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Tom I don't think the current division is a good thing anymore that I think the current division between Israel and the Palastinians a good thing. The reality is that Korea hadn't been a country in its own right for some time before the artificial construct was put in place NK-SK was a war settlement to keep the Russians happy so don't talk to me of selling out the people of North Korea, that was done by the US and the UK, and Trumans effort to liberate NK, if it was Truman's, and not McArthur's was stupid, and ill prepared. Yes, Kim keeps NK imprisioned but the Chinese bare as much responsibility for that as does the US and let's not forget the UN, another toothless paper tiger.

Back to the thread, The US has been looking for an excuse to attack Iran ever since the tiger had his tail yanked by the Iranian theocratic regime. But in this climate we will be subjected to more bull and bluster unless you can find another excuse for a preemptive strike. I expect that excuse will be more "WMD" when you can "prove" Iran has atomic weapons.

Yes, Tom, what is it you are doing in Africa? Some sort of expeditionary force? Special forces deployment, isn't it? Can we expect another black hawk down incident anytime soon? I expect it is a thinly veiled threat to Sudan to leave the fledgling nation alone.

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Yes, Tom, what is it you are doing in Africa?

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I have no idea... I'll be reseaching this Lord's Resistance Army in the coming days.But the President's letter to Congress leads me to believe there was no urgency... or not enough to deploy without either an address to the nation or even showing the courtesy of personally informing Congress.

My initial impression is that these are bad dudes that massacre and recruit child soldiers. Despite their name ,there is nothing Christian in their actions. But the regimes we will be supporting are equally bad news .
Word is that the President is reacting to pressure from humanitarian organiizations . I have no problem with humanitarian missions ;but this crosses the line beyond the line he already crossed in Libya.
There is a War Powers Act that defines the proper steps for the
President to follow . He has thumbed his nose at it . I'm not a big fan of the War Powers Act ;but until there is new law that restores to Congress the power to declare war ,that they unconstitutionally voted away ,then that is the law we have.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

There is a War Powers Act that defines the proper steps for the
President to follow . He has thumbed his nose at it . I'm not a big fan of the War Powers Act ;but until there is new law that restores to Congress the power to declare war ,that they unconstitutionally voted away ,then that is the law we have.

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He claims he has the authority without waiting for Congress to get out of its own way. His authority is vested in the Lord's Resistance Army Disarmament and Northern Uganda Recovery Act, The LRA has been a nuiance for a long time, one of those cultist organisations that is right over the top, child soldiers, kidnappings and various atrocities. No respecter of borders apparently but primarily interested in the overthrow of the Uganda government. I thought various African republics had their own armies and some sort of confederation of their own where they give each other assistance. But this is not a war, more like helping out with some policing problems