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-   -   Obama regime getting creepier (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=597281)

  • Sep 14, 2011, 02:39 PM
    speechlesstx
    Obama regime getting creepier
    During the Obamacare debate the president called for snitches to report in on alleged misinformation to [email protected]. He has established a creepy new snitching effort called Attack Watch. Victor Davis Hanson explains the creepiness of this effort:

    Quote:

    Obama's New Maiestas
    Victor Davis Hanson · 5 hours ago

    There are a lot of disturbing—and ironic—things about the new Obama effort (AttackWatch.com) to monitor, hunt down, and attack its critics. It used to be a classically liberal idea that conservatives and liberals would debate policies, put their views out, and let the public decide the validity of their positions. Supposedly disinterested newspapers would occasionally weigh in on disingenuous or especially egregious transgressions of good manners and basic professionalism

    At certain times—so the liberal narrative went—this notion of an arena of ideas was perverted by the paranoid and vindictive right-wingers, like a Joe McCarthy shaking papers “with the names of known communists”, or Richard Nixon with his enemies lists.

    Yet go onto the new ("Paid for by Obama for America") AttackWatch.com website. It reads and looks like some sort of Stasi file (“file” is their vocabulary, not mine). It asks readers to inform them of criticism of Obama. The format is, I guess by intent, supposed to resemble a government intelligence dossier ("Attack files"), with its blaring black and red headers: "Attack" /"Attackers" (followed by names and pictures of the supposed bad guys)/"Attack Type" /("public statements") followed by check off boxes like “Have your seen or heard this attack?" "Yes/No". It reminds me of living in 1973 dictatorial Greece, when we all kept silent about the Colonels upon entering the apartment building, lest the government-paid concierge write something down not nice in her black book.

    Apparently no one in the administration learned from the spooky tone of the now defunct Journolist. That obtuseness begs the question, what is it with these extra-journalistic efforts to intimidate critics, as if the 2012 campaign will be based around deterrence: e.g. as if: “Beware: if you criticize Barack Obama, your name and picture will appear on our "Attack File". We are watching you, so you watch out!"

    So creepier still is the request to snoop around and collect evidence for what the Roman emperors and French monarchs used to call maiestas/Lèse-majesté—supposed crimes against the head of state, by circulating criticism of his authority that might lessen his proper sense of majesty. Indeed, on AttackWatch.com there is a special pop-up window that is reminiscent of Crimestoppers.com that supposedly will help form some sort of a clearing house: "Your email"/"content of attack or link"/"Attack type", "Attach" with a link "Report" that pops up yet another window.

    This is yet another disturbing symptom of Obama’s current malady: Near 40% approval polls; widespread terror of 2012 Democratic candidates that Obama may bring them down in the fashion of the 2010 tsunami (cf. the wipeouts in the Nevada and New York special elections); leftwing columnists scapegoating Obama in hopes that they can blame the public rejection of their own statist agenda on a supposedly inept messenger.

    I predict AttackWatch.com will fail and go the way of Journolist. It is contrary to the American tradition of unfettered free speech to post, in psychodramatic style, names and pictures as if they were criminals for speaking out against the head of state. The request for millions of spies to report such incorrect discourse will offend rather than inspire. As in the case of the 2008 Obama rejection of public campaign financing funds, it is hypocritical; and also antithetical to the supposed liberal tradition of tolerance and free expression without worry of intimidation.

    I also predict in the following weeks we will see a lot of pushback from even the liberal media that will seek to disassociate itself from AttackWatch.com—lest the names and pictures of themselves start showing up on it.
    When did liberals become such enemies of free speech?

    P.S. I joined so I could snitch on the snitches.
  • Sep 14, 2011, 03:12 PM
    twinkiedooter
    This is looking more like Nazi Germany and Stalin Russia every day with this type of stuff. Obama apparently is taking lessons from these dead dictators who refused to have anyone say anything disparaging about "dear Leader" or they were sent to concentration camps or Siberian gulags.

    Thank goodness those days are over, or ARE they?
  • Sep 14, 2011, 05:53 PM
    joypulv
    Where is this speech calling for snitches?

    All I see is a site that puts forth what this group thinks are political lies from the media (much of which is online drivel written by tinfoil hats), and it asks for them so they can reply, not go out with truncheons. Gimme a break. Alarmist.
  • Sep 14, 2011, 06:16 PM
    Cat1864
    I can't see how 'rumors' are a 'reportable attack'. With their form, it would seem to encourage people to report a private citizen repeating a 'rumor' since most 'rumors' would already be covered under the other forms such as radio/tv ad, website/blog, forwarded email, etc.
  • Sep 14, 2011, 06:25 PM
    excon
    Hello Steve:

    One of attributes of the surveillance state that YOU SUPPORT, is getting neighbor to snitch upon neighbor... I've said MANY times on these pages, that if you don't GUARD the rights of your antagonists, yours will soon disappear.

    I remember you were outraged that the cops would come into your home WITHOUT a warrant. Now, you're worried about government snitches... But, the NSA listening to your phone calls, and reading your emails is just hunky dory with you..

    You want it BOTH ways - a TYPICAL right wing position.

    excon
  • Sep 15, 2011, 05:12 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    Where is this speech calling for snitches?

    All I see is a site that puts forth what this group thinks are political lies from the media (much of which is online drivel written by tinfoil hats), and it asks for them so they can reply, not go out with truncheons. Gimme a break. Alarmist.

    Hello joypulv, I don't believe we've met.

    I'm no alarmist, but when the president of the United States calls for citizen snitches to report to him at an official White House address that's creepy. This president has proven by his behavior time and again that he is no friend of free speech and dissent is something to be suppressed, not embraced. And if something goes bad avoid taking responsibility, blame Bush.

    Oh, and he leaves the truncheon-wielding to his union thugs.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 05:19 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello Steve:

    One of attributes of the surveillance state that YOU SUPPORT, is getting neighbor to snitch upon neighbor...

    Who doesn't report suspicious activity in your neighborhood? You? If I see some guy snooping around my home or my neighbors you're darn right I'm going to report it, that's what a good neighbor does. If I smell funky stuff coming from a house across the street and people running in and out at all hours I'll report it, I don't want someone's meth lab to blow up on my block do you? No that's right, you just want it legalized.

    Quote:

    I remember you were outraged that the cops would come into your home WITHOUT a warrant. Now, you're worried about government snitches... But, the NSA listening to your phone calls, and reading your emails is just hunky dory with you..
    Yep, if you were chatting with terrorists overseas I'd certainly hope they caught it.

    Quote:

    You want it BOTH ways - a TYPICAL right wing position.
    I want a reasonable balance, it is part of the government's job to protect our lives. It's not part of their job to suppress free speech.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 05:26 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    Where is this speech calling for snitches?

    All I see is a site that puts forth what this group thinks are political lies from the media (much of which is online drivel written by tinfoil hats), and it asks for them so they can reply, not go out with truncheons. Gimme a break. Alarmist.

    Stop being the voice of reason! You'll make their heads explode! LOL!
  • Sep 15, 2011, 05:41 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Yep, if you were chatting with terrorists overseas I'd certainly hope they caught it.

    Hello again, Steve:

    For a right winger, you should do TRUST the government... Makes no sense to me.

    excon
  • Sep 15, 2011, 05:47 AM
    joypulv
    Hey NeedKarma thanks but I see at least two other voices of reason here.

    Nothing about any of this is new in history. Before the internet, politicians had staff and volunteers do newspaper and magazine clipping and take notes on TV, radio, and live speeches so that they could quote and bash them in THEIR speeches. Heck, it probably goes back to Nero and Ghengis Khan. Well maybe not Khan.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 06:59 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    For a right winger, you should do TRUST the government... Makes no sense to me

    Dude, you trust them with my healthcare, and that makes no sense to me either.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 07:07 AM
    spitvenom
    Don't worry Speech and Tom I already reported you two. They will be showing up to your doors on the Sundays we play each other in fantasy football. You have been warned!
  • Sep 15, 2011, 07:18 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by joypulv View Post
    Hey NeedKarma thanks but I see at least two other voices of reason here.

    Nothing about any of this is new in history. Before the internet, politicians had staff and volunteers do newspaper and magazine clipping and take notes on TV, radio, and live speeches so that they could quote and bash them in THEIR speeches. Heck, it probably goes back to Nero and Ghengis Khan. Well maybe not Khan.

    If this had been the Bush administration doing this the tone would be much different. The left would be crying foul and holding their breath until they turned blue, but since it's Obama they fall in line like good little soldiers.

    But hey, it is good entertainment as well because in addition to being creepy, it makes him the butt of many jokes.

    @thorninaz: "#attackwatch I saw someone purposely squeeze the Charmin in the grocery store."

    @Libertarian_ish: "Every time a TSA Agent gives your privates a "high five" an #attackwatch angel of death is born!"

    @JoeNYLaw: "Dear #attackwatch: After we turn in our children for thinking illegal thoughts about our Dear Leader, can we say Hi to Minister Goebells?"

    @BradThor: "If only the #Obama administration could create an atmosphere where jobs materialized as quickly as #attackwatch jokes!"
  • Sep 15, 2011, 07:20 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spitvenom View Post
    Don't worry Speech and Tom I already reported you two. They will be showing up to your doors on the Sundays we play each other in fantasy football. You have been warned!

    That's what it's going to take because my team is invincible. By the way, next time you get a good coach's speech put it on our message board.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 07:30 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    That's what it's gonna take because my team is invincible.

    Hello Steve;

    Come Monday morning, I'm going to be feasting on creamed doughnuts.

    excon
  • Sep 15, 2011, 07:37 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello Steve;

    Come Monday morning, I'm gonna be feasting on creamed doughnuts.

    excon

    Yeah and you thought you were going have a cheeseburger this year, too. How's that workin' for you?
  • Sep 15, 2011, 10:03 AM
    tomder55
    The President needs all the help he can get. Just yesterday he was crying to a college crowd... "If you love me, you've got to help me pass this bill!”
    That of course would be the non-bill that hasn't been filed in Congress yet. That would be the bill that Senate Majority leader Harry Reid has already indicated he wouldn't bring up for a vote.

    Not that I blame him. He has 20 something members of his caucus up for re-election next year. The last thing they want to own is another stimulus boon doggle .

    Yeah report me!! I encourage eveyone to report my posts to AttackWatch . What better way to bring exposure to AMHD!!
  • Sep 15, 2011, 10:48 AM
    NeedKarma
    Yep, report my posts too!
  • Sep 15, 2011, 10:51 AM
    speechlesstx
    I signed up yesterday and still haven't received anything. They're either on to me or ignoring me because I didn't donate. I'm guessing the latter.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 11:26 AM
    speechlesstx
    At least one prominent liberal is being honest about this, Editor of The Nation and MSNBC weekend host Christopher Hayes.

    Quote:

    If I'm honest w/ myself, I probably would have gone apesh*t (fairly or unfairly) if George W Bush had launched something like #attackwatch
    Told you so.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 11:44 AM
    NeedKarma
    Of course Bush had Fox News on his side.

    Anyway if you haven't done anything wrong they you have nothing to worry about, it won't affect you.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 01:01 PM
    spitvenom
    Bush didn't need a website like this because no one was spreading rumors. All the nasty Ish he was doing was true. Like the post from smoothy about all the late night talk show guys making jokes about Obama non of them were real. No one said any of them. The tea baggers just send these BS emails around that have no truth what so ever.

    But I do find it funny that the tea baggers freaked out over death panels then at the debate they became the death panels let people without insurance die is what they want. I'm sure Jesus would do the same thing.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 01:32 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Of course Bush had Fox News on his side.

    The 3 legacy networks alone have 6.62 times more viewers of their evening news than Fox' biggest draw. And again, that's not counting CNN, MSNBC, HNN and the print media. Obama has a much, much larger news network in his corner than Bush ever did.

    Quote:

    Anyway if you haven't done anything wrong they you have nothing to worry about, it won't affect you.
    I said creepy, nothing abut being worried. This silly effort of his only invites more criticism and I'm certain he's going to get what he deserves in return.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 01:35 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by spitvenom View Post
    Bush didn't need a website like this because no one was spreading rumors. All the nasty Ish he was doing was true. Like the post from smoothy about all the late night talk show guys making jokes about Obama non of them were real. No one said any of them. The tea baggers just send these BS emails around that have no truth what so ever.

    Hate to tell you but your next sentence is exactly what you just criticized.

    "But I do find it funny that the tea baggers freaked out over death panels then at the debate they became the death panels let people without insurance die is what they want. "

    No one on this side of the aisle is pushing granny over the cliff.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 01:46 PM
    tomder55
    Quote:

    because no one was spreading rumors.
    Lol...
    The 9/11 Truth Movement - 911truth.org


    Electronic Voting The stolen election of 2004

    How Jeb Bush Stole the 2000 Election for His Brother

    Untitled Document

    Bush Postpones 2008 Election | The Nation

    ... nope none at all .
  • Sep 15, 2011, 01:54 PM
    NeedKarma
    There you go tom, set up a website and debunk them!
  • Sep 15, 2011, 02:41 PM
    speechlesstx
    That was a big one... more than once

    Bush administration takes steps to cancel US election

    Will Bush Cancel the Election?

    Will Bush Cancel The 2008 Election?

    Could Bush Cancel the Election?

    Congressman John Olver Believes Bush Will Cancel 2008 Elections, Still Refuses to Support Impeaching Him or Cheney


    Bush Cartel Talks of Steps to Potentially Cancel ("Postpone") the Presidential Election: This is For Real Folks!


    Evidence That Bush Will Cancel Elections & Declare Martial Law

    My favorite has always been Theocracywatch, but I bet they've turned their attention to those Dominionists running now.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 02:45 PM
    NeedKarma
    Where's the disinformation there?

    From one of your articles:

    Quote:

    The article reported that the Bush-appointed chair of the Election Assistance Commission, DeForest B. Soaries, sent letters in late April to National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge to raise the possibility of a terror attack occurring at election time. (The Sept. 11, 2001 attack fell on Election Day in New York City.)

    Newsweek magazine reported Soaries wanted Ridge to request that Congress pass legislation authorizing Ridge's agency to re-schedule elections.

    Rep. Christopher Cox, R-Calif., chair of the House Homeland Security Committee, told CNN that developing such plans was a necessary contingency effort in response to "doomsday scenarios,"
  • Sep 15, 2011, 03:09 PM
    speechlesstx
    I believe the word tom and I addressed was "rumors". The article you cite calls it a rumor in the first sentence.

    "Canceling or postponing the Nov. 2 presidential election may sound like ultimate paranoia, but the rumor floating around..."

    Rumors, see? Thank you for trying.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 03:12 PM
    NeedKarma
    Yea rumors exist, I don't deny that. That's not what the website is about, it's about correcting the planned misinformation sent out by the republicans.

    You really had to reach deep to find examples, articles that contain the word regardless of their content. Hehe.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 03:54 PM
    Cat1864
    NK, it is set up for more than the 'planned' misinformation.

    I read their form for reporting 'attacks'. They have a drop down menu that includes 'rumors' as one of the ways to hear about misinformation/attacks. They list emails, radio ads, TV ads, websites/blogs, and other forms of media separately. So, obviously, AttackWatch believes they should be reported along with all other forms whether they are in 'articles' or not.

    If they aren't in articles, then where else do you hear 'rumors'?
  • Sep 15, 2011, 05:34 PM
    NeedKarma
    I agree, rumors is pretty vague and should probably be omitted from that. In that article we were speaking of the rumor was confirmed by the Republican member so it was all dealt with in the same article.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 07:21 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Yea rumors exist, I don't deny that. That's not what the website is about, it's about correcting the planned misinformation sent out by the republicans.

    You really had to reach deep to find examples, articles that contain the word regardless of their content. Hehe.

    Dude, just admit when you're wrong instead of constantly moving the goal posts to C Y A.
  • Sep 15, 2011, 09:54 PM
    TUT317
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post

    Yeah report me !!! I encourage eveyone to report my posts to AttackWatch . What better way to bring exposure to AMHD !!!!


    Hi Tom,

    There is a big difference between you and others who create left and right wing websites just to post ridiculous drivel and then meld into the background and watch the nonsense spread. They do this under the guise of free speech. All freedom and no responsibility?

    In other words, you have demonstrated that your are a person who is prepared to take responsibility for his political comments. Very important in my view.

    Attack Watch seems to be a belated attempt to make people take responsibility for their comments rather than an attempt to keep 'files' on 'dissidents'

    Probably not the right way to go about it, but it is at least an attempt.

    Tut
  • Sep 16, 2011, 03:46 AM
    speechlesstx
    Tut, point taken but with Obama it is not about making others take responsibility. He has shown time and again he doesn't tolerate dissent, he can't take the heat. If you haven't noticed, in his world there is one way, his. I'll be glad to tell him he's wrong and take responsibility for it.
  • Sep 16, 2011, 04:16 AM
    TUT317
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Tut, point taken but with Obama it is not about making others take responsibility. He has shown time and again he doesn't tolerate dissent, he can't take the heat. If you haven't noticed, in his world there is one way, his. I'll be glad to tell him he's wrong and take responsibility for it.


    Hi Speechless,

    I don't Know that much about your politico/legal system and how Obama fits in. On that basis I am happy to go along with your observations.

    The only point I would make is that despite my lack of knowledge of American politics I would be very confident in the ability of 'systems' to deal with ambitions politicians. In the end Obama may well not tolerate dissent, but I would be confident that in the final analysis there is nothing he can do about it.

    Not sure who said this but," you have nothing to fear but fear itself".

    Tut
  • Sep 16, 2011, 04:22 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    He has shown time and again he doesn't tolerate dissent

    Show me what he has done differently than any other president and I;'ll agree with you. Please use facts not emotions.
  • Sep 16, 2011, 06:10 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TUT317 View Post
    In the end Obama may well not tolerate dissent, but I would be confident that in the final analysis there is nothing he can do about it.

    Not sure who said this but," you have nothing to fear but fear itself".

    Tut

    No, the people will not surrender their right to criticize our government, I can assure you of that. And that was Franklin D. Roosevelt who said that.
  • Sep 16, 2011, 06:12 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Show me what he has done differently than any other president and I;'ll agree with you. Please use facts not emotions.

    That was in the OP, first line. See, if you'd just read the first sentences you wouldn't be wrong so much.
  • Sep 16, 2011, 06:23 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    That was in the OP, first line.

    How does that show that other presidents have tolerated dissent? I don't understand.

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