Ask Me Help Desk - The silliest article ever? A Christian Plot for Domination?

The silliest article ever? A Christian Plot for Domination?

The birthers have nothing on this woman. According to Michelle Goldberg, Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry are Dominionists plotting a theocratic takeover of the world (and now for the rebirth of theocracywatch).

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With Tim Pawlenty out of the presidential race, it is now fairly clear that the GOP candidate will either be Mitt Romney or someone who makes George W. Bush look like Tom Paine. Of the three most plausible candidates for the Republican nomination, two are deeply associated with a theocratic strain of Christian fundamentalism known as Dominionism. If you want to understand Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry, understanding Dominionism isn't optional.

Put simply, Dominionism means that Christians have a God-given right to rule all earthly institutions. Originating among some of America's most radical theocrats, it's long had an influence on religious-right education and political organizing. But because it seems so outré, getting ordinary people to take it seriously can be difficult. Most writers, myself included, who explore it have been called paranoid. In a contemptuous 2006 First Things review of several books, including Kevin Phillips' American Theocracy, and my own Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, conservative columnist Ross Douthat wrote, “the fear of theocracy has become a defining panic of the Bush era.”

Now, however, we have the most theocratic Republican field in American history...

Bwaa ha ha ha!

As Michael Gerson notes, the evidence for this paranoid nonsense and fear mongering is manufactured.

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Perry admittedly doesn't attend a Dominionist church or make Dominionist arguments, but he once allowed himself to be prayed for by some suspicious characters. Bachmann once attended a school that had a law review that said some disturbing things. She assisted a professor who once spoke at a convention that included some alarming people. Her belief that federal tax rates should not be higher than 10 percent, Goldberg explains, is “common in Reconstructionist circles.”

And we mustn't forget that Perry was actually videoed praying a couple of weeks ago so it must be true.

So, who's up for "the death penalty for homosexuality, abortion, and even apostasy"? Anyone?

I'd personally like to see them attack the Muslims atheists and agnostics with the same vigor... that is unless they are really the partisan hacks with an anti-Christian agenda as they appear to be..

You have strange bedfellows there smoothy athiests, agnostics and Muslims are you saying they should attack all non Christians?

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Originally Posted by paraclete

you have strange bedfellows there smoothy athiests, agnostics and Muslims are you saying they should attack all non Christians?

Nope... but they would be attacking the other groups with equal gusto if they didn't have an agenda. Because all of those other groups have done as much if not more to attack them over. But its clear they hate Christians for some demented figment of imagination that festered in their twisted mind.

But its clear its just another liberal whack job pretending to be something else... not like THAT doesn't happen every other day at least. Not like they have many original thoughts.

Never heard of Dominionism before today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

But its clear its just another liberal whack job pretending to be something else

Actually, it's real, based on Joel 2 in which "end-times warriors" prepare the nation for God's judgment and, ultimately, Christ's return. This "new" movement, the New Apostolic Reformation, is one strand of neo-Pentecostalism that draws on the ideas of dominionism and spiritual warfare. Its adherents display gifts of the spirit, the religious expression of Pentecostal and charismatic believers that includes speaking in tongues, prophecy, healing and a belief in signs, wonders and miracles. These evangelists also preach the "Seven Mountains" theory of dominionism: that Christians need to take control of different sectors of public life, such as government, the media and the law. (the Texas Observer)

Republican candidates are "dominionists" is as much concocted rubbish as the claim Obama is a Muslim.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Republican candidates are "dominionists" is as much concocted rubbish as the claim Obama is a Muslim.

Only Perry and Bachmann.

quote from Perry: Both our nation and our Judeo Christian heritage are under attack by a force that is more dangerous than any threat our world has faced in recent memory. I am convinced that our ability to defeat the radical jihadists who threaten our nation will be significantly impacted by the prayers and leadership of America's evangelical pastors.

"Rediscovering God in America" was created to inspire people of faith to engage the culture and bring America back to our worldwide standing as a beacon of hope, a city shining on a hill.

Because God entrusted you to care for and lead His flock, you can play a key role in restoring God to the center of American life, thus strengthening our nation to confront this looming threat.

While Congress occupies its time trying to legislate defeat in Iraq, we hope you will attend a Pastors' Policy Briefing that will equip you to walk point in the war of values and ideas.(Going to War for God Texas Freedom Network)

Any real sources besides TFN or Daily Beast ?

I'd like to see the people who make the charge square it with the fact that both Bachmann and Perry are opposed to a strong central government .The only way they are Dominionists is if they are lying about the rest of their political beliefs.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

any real sources besides TFN or Daily Beast ?

Well, they were direct quotes from him. Not sure how you can beat that, unless you, he, and I do a conference call.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Well, they were direct quotes from him. Not sure how you can beat that, unless you, he, and I do a conference call.

Ah, so you think it's a legitimate threat? Bwa ha ha!

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Ah, so you think it's a legitimate threat? Bwa ha ha!

Huh?

Like we Christians need to plot to take over the world?

I thought it was the be fruitful and multiple, we were to take over by pure numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I thought it was the be fruitful and multiple, we were to take over by pure numbers.

Yes Chuck but I was thinking of all those unrighteous who are going to rush to put all that wealth in our hands, I'm just standing back waiting and I see it happening. I'll let them do all the hard work

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Huh?

What do you mean huh? You said "only Perry and Bachmann" are dominionists. No offense, but that's absurd, ridiculous, ludicrous, paranoid and a complete fantasy. Surely you don't believe it, it's too silly to believe.

Your quote of Perry is certainly not evidence of that. Calling on pastors to pray and lead their flocks isn't calling for a theocratic takeover. Apparently, unlike any other American if an evangelical Christian fights for their beliefs or - gasp - pray, it means we're trying to take over the country and subject everyone to old testament law and justice? That is not based in reality or rational thought.

Regardless, after all the scoffing and mocking over birthers and such I'm going to enjoy watching progressives panic over all their paranoid delusions about Bachmann and Perry.

I still can't get over the contradiction. Both Perry and Bachmann believe in reducing the size and influence of the Federal Government . Yet they are now supposedly part of organizations that would impose a central theocratic dictatorship.

Exactly, everything about this fantasy is a contradiction. Evangelicals are NT 'grace by faith' free will Christians looking to their spiritual King, not OT legalists seeking a theocratic political kingdom. I've said it what seems like a thousand times here, forcing my faith on someone goes against my religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

I still can't get over the contradiction. Both Perry and Bachmann believe in reducing the size and influence of the Federal Government .

Hello again, tom:

Me neither... But, I'm talking about your absurd allegation that they want to "reduce" the size and influence of the government...

NOTHING could be further from the truth... They both believe in a HUGE and unbelievably INTRUSIVE federal government. Oh, it's true, they want to limit the social side of government, but they want to EXPAND the COP side of government...

They LOVE the HUGE and unbelievably INTRUSIVE surveillance state. They LOVE the HUGE militaristic state. They LOVE the HUGE drug war state. They LOVE being the LARGEST jailer in the world. They LOVE intruding on EVERY woman in the country by planting THEIR presence in EVERY single doctors office to INSURE that women get ONLY the treatment THEY approve of.

Now, maybe they want to add a HUGE intrusive religious state to the mix. Sounds right to me.. These people don't understand the meaning of small government and freedom...

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

Me neither... But, I'm talking about your absurd allegation that they want to "reduce" the size and influence of the government...

NOTHING could be further from the truth... They both believe in a HUGE and unbelievably INTRUSIVE federal government. Oh, it's true, they want to limit the social side of government, but they want to EXPAND the COP side of government...

They LOVE the HUGE and unbelievably INTRUSIVE surveillance state. They LOVE the HUGE militaristic state. They LOVE the HUGE drug war state. They LOVE being the LARGEST jailer in the world. They LOVE intruding on EVERY woman in the country by planting THEIR presence in EVERY single doctors office to INSURE that women get ONLY the treatment THEY approve of.

Now, maybe they want to add a HUGE intrusive religious state to the mix. Sounds right to me.. These people don't understand the meaning of small government and freedom...

excon

Gee... just like the Democrats with Obamacare.. And their persecution of anyone who isn't marching lock-step with Obama and his goons?

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Now, maybe they want to add a HUGE intrusive religious state to the mix. Sounds right to me.. These people don't understand the meaning of small government and freedom...

So you drank the koolaid?

It's not koolaid... Ex ,being an Article 6 type of guy,is just applying a religious test to the Presidency. But there are some on our side who brought this stuff on, as you correctly point out ,with nonsense like birther and Manchurian candidate talk in 2008.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Ex ,being an Article 6 type of guy,is just applying a religious test to the Presidency.

Hello again, tom:

That could be true. I want my president to believe in ONE document, and ONE document only. I don't want him/her to have allegiances to ANYBODY (Grover Norquist) or ANY entity OTHER than the citizenry of this great nation. Call me crazy.

excon

Interesting. So politicians can't have personal beliefs and convictions. Guess you're out of luck then.

So, who's up for "the death penalty for homosexuality, abortion, and even apostasy"? Anyone?

Uh, can I take a number and stand in line on this, Speech? Or do I have to answer now?

Well let's see now, tick, tick, and, no, I'm not a Muslim

Bill Keller of the NY Times is apparently all for a religious test for candidates.

Quote:

1. Is it fair to question presidential candidates about details of their faith?

2. Is it fair to question candidates about controversial remarks made by their pastors, mentors, close associates or thinkers whose books they recommend?

3. (a) Do you agree with those religious leaders who say that America is a “Christian nation” or “Judeo-Christian nation?” (b) What does that mean in practice?

4. If you encounter a conflict between your faith and the Constitution and laws of the United States, how would you resolve it? Has that happened, in your experience?

5. (a) Would you have any hesitation about appointing a Muslim to the federal bench? (b) What about an atheist?

6. Are Mormons Christians, in your view? Should the fact that Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman are Mormons influence how we think of them as candidates?

7. What do you think of the evangelical Christian movement known as Dominionism and the idea that Christians, and only Christians, should hold dominion over the secular institutions of the earth?

8. (a) What is your attitude toward the theory of evolution? (b) Do you believe it should be taught in public schools?

9. Do you believe it is proper for teachers to lead students in prayer in public schools?

LOL, you got to love number 7 especially. I had never even heard of Dominionism until the silly article that led to this thread. Maybe that's because there are only a handful of dingbats that actually adhere to the philosophy, and none currently running for office.

I'm just curious though, why wasn't the media so intent on a religius test when Obama was running in 2008. Apparently, questioning his ties to his "God damn America" mentor of 20 years is out of bounds, while making up crap about Dominionsim is mandatory.

After listening to Bachmann I could understand why some might think there is a Christian plot. Has this woman lost the plot? God is making a wake up call to the US? I think he might be making a wake up call to Bachmann

If you're referring to her weekend comments she was joking. Keller, the executive editor of the NY Times is not. This moron thinks Rick Santorum is "affiliated with fervid subsets of evangelical Christianity." No, he's Catholic. That would be about like the Fox News guys saying Obama is a radical Muslim. And some of you say Fox isn't "real news"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

If you're referring to her weekend comments she was joking. Keller, the executive editor of the NY Times is not. This moron thinks Rick Santorum is "affiliated with fervid subsets of evangelical Christianity." No, he's Catholic. That would be about like the Fox News guys saying Obama is a radical Muslim. And some of you say Fox isn't "real news"?

Speech you may not be aware of this but committed Christians are serious when they say God is sending a wake up call in earthquakes and storms. It isn't just the lunatic fringe who think this way. Let's say I think we have all had a wake up call in the events of the last year, but as far as I can see we are not listening

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

Speech you may not be aware of this but committed Christians are serious when they say God is sending a wake up call in earthquakes and storms. It isn't just the lunatic fringe who think this way. Let's say I think we have all had a wake up call in the events of the last year, but as far as I can see we are not listening

Oh I'm aware, Clete. I just think the left is irrational about it.

Hello again:

I agree with you right wingers... God DOES talk. He tells ME that right wingers are going to DESTROY the earth, and we better get gay marriage approved right away...

What?? You think God is a right winger?? Of course you would... Guess what?

excon

Clete so you are the zealot... not Bachmann . She was clearly joking when she said it... but it was enough to get libs heads to explode.
Here's another amusing religious sidebar to the campaign. Romney is losing Jewish funding here in NY because they are giving money instead to the "Jewish candidate "... Bachmann. For some reason they believe she's Jewish .
Mitt Romney losing Jewish donors because they think Michele Bachmann is a Jew | Mail Online

As to Keller's idiotic scare mongering questions ,the correct response was given by Jack Kennedy 1960 .

I hope that no American will waste his franchise and throw away his vote by voting either for me or against me solely on account of my religious affiliation. It is not relevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

I hope that no American will waste his franchise and throw away his vote by voting either for me or against me solely on account of my religious affiliation. It is not relevant.

Hello again, tom:

Of course, I agree with MY president. The problem happens when the CANDIDATE him or herself uses his or her religious affiliation to GET votes. To THEM, it's relevant. Therefore, it should be to us.

My second of course, is that Michelle Bachmann would SAY that she was joking... But, she wasn't. Certainly, if she BELIEVES, like clete and Steve do, that God makes weather to send a message, and she DOES, why WOULDN'T she believe that God is sending HER a message?

I'm just saying, that if God sends messages, how do you know that he doesn't send them to me?

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

My second of course, is that Michelle Bachmann would SAY that she was joking... But, she wasn't.

Yes, she was.

Quote:

Certainly, if she BELIEVES, like clete and Steve do, that God makes weather to send a message, and she DOES, why WOULDN'T she believe that God is sending HER a message?

Now see, this is how nonsense like Obama is a Muslim and Perry a Dominionist gets started, people make crap up. Could you please point me to any instance in which I've said "makes weather to send a message." I mean, just because you're losing your butt in fantasy baseball is no reason to make stuff up abut me here.

God does send you messages... The question you correctly pose is what is the message ? And are you really listening? To inject some of my belief ;it is absurd to think that earthqukes and hurricanes and other natural disasters are "messages from God" . Oh it may be a message that it's not a good idea for me to become a Darwin's Award candidate by taking a kayak out that day or taking a walk on a jetty .

Maybe Michelle's comments would be more acceptable to you if she had instead said "America's chickens coming home to roost" .

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Yes, she was.

Actually, since I was born into (to a minister and his wife, no less!) and lived much of my adult life in the church body she used to be in, I know she wasn't kidding. She may have giggled about it to her elderly audience, but I have no doubt she believes it.

Hello again, Steve:

Couple things.. If I said the hurricane was Gods wrath, you'd KNOW I was joking... It's like if I were to say that EVERYBODY should smoke pot, you WOULDN'T know if I was joking or not, would you?

Bachmann is a FIRM believer. To hear her mouth the words of Pat Robertson, another firm believer, doesn't sound like a joke to ME. But, I don't know what's in her heart.

Uhhh, I see where I misread clete's post, and thought it was yours. HE'S the one who believe God makes weather to send a message...

excon

I'm not going to waste much time defending Bachmann, I have no intention of voting for her and enjoy watching all you smart people share your irrational fears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I'm not going to waste much time defending Bachmann, I have no intention of voting for her and enjoy watching all you smart people share your irrational fears.

I would love nothing more than for her to become the Republican nominee to run against Obama.