"We should not celebrate the death of OBL because he too was human. We did not know him, we did not ever talk to him."

This is a paraphrase from a social networking status of a friend of my wife's... I talked about this to a few of my co-workers and surprisingly I got mixed opinions.

What is your opinion?

Is it wrong to celebrate the death of a human life? Even if; IMO, he deserved it?

NOTE:I realize there is a similiar thread about this but this is specifically about celebrating vs not celebrating the death of OBL or human life in general.

This is not a question that would've been asked in the 1940s.

Here are the lyrics of an Irving Berlin song played by the Glenn Miller Band sung by Al Bowlly.

Quote:

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When that man is dead and gone
When that man is dead and gone
We'll go dancing down the street
Kissing everyone we meet
When that man is dead and gone

What a day to wake up on
What a way to greet the dawn
Some fine day the news'll flash
Satan with a small moustache
Is asleep beneath the lawn
When that man is dead and gone

Satan, Satan, thought up a plan
Dressed as a man
Walking the earth and since he began
The world is hell for you and me
But what a heaven it will be

When that man is dead and gone
When that man is dead and gone
When they lay him twelve feet deep
I'll be there to laugh, not weep
When that man is dead and gone

What a day to wake up on
What a way to greet the dawn
Satan'll take him by the hand
To meet old Gerring, look what, man
When that man is dead and gone
When that man is dead and gone

Some fine day the news'll flash
Satan with a small moustache
Is asleep beneath the lawn
When that man is dead and gone

What a day to wake up on
What a way to greet the dawn
When a certain man is dead and gone

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As a side note... Al Bowlly never got to see that day. He died in the London Blitz.

I sort of got into it with my sister-in-law on FB about this issue. Personally I do not celebrate an evil man going to meet his maker. I do celebrate that justice was done. My son ran into my bedroom when the news broke and we high fived and did a silly dance. Not because he was shot in the head, but because of the victory of getting him. Haven't we been trying to for the last 10 years? HELLO?

I am passionate about this. I think Americans over think this stuff. I'm not a real big politically correct gal. I say what I think right or wrong. I wasn't here when Hitler was defeated and killed himself and we won WW II. BUT they kissed and celebrated in the streets and it was RIGHT to do it. Why not celebrate when evil is defeated and one of our missions in the war accomplished? I don't know what all the hoopla is about. I rejoice. If that is insensitive... well, I've been called worse.

Classy good points .

Another point related . Hitler killed himself and he was cremated . Nobody saw the photos yet no one questions his demise .

His chared bones were scattered to locations undisclosed. The reason for this was so a shrine could not be built for him by the Hitler cult.

Tom,

Yeah we've come a long way baby... and I'm not sure it is the right way.

I have no problem in celebrating the death of such an evil man. If given the chance, I would have put that bullet in his head (and I wouldn't have given him the chance to surrender).

Does this mean the war is over, or that this is a voctory for America? No. This is a step toward a mission completeness and the worst, I think, is yet to come.

The opposing opinions were that human life should be valued regardless of the individual. That every human has a purpose, whether this was good or bad seemed irrelevant, but who are we to say what is good or bad?

Is might right?

According to the Bible, though shall not kill.
According to the Qu`ran, kill the infadels. So in his eyes, he was right. In our's he was wrong.

Again, is might right?

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Originally Posted by ITstudent2006

Is it wrong to celebrate the death of a human life? Even if; IMO, he deserved it?

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Hello Rick:

Yes, it is. You'd think people who purportedly are "pro life" would think so too... But, you'd be wrong..

I've seen the enemy burn the corps's of our boys and drag them through the streets... We're NOT like them. At least, I'M not like them. Plus, I'm a warrior. I can't believe any warrior celebrates the death of his enemy.

excon

PS> (edited) Oh, I'da killed him too, not because I hated him, but because it was my job. I would NOT have celebrated it.

I don't think we should celebrate. Don't get me wrong he deserved to die but terrorism is not going to end, and the "wars" aren't over. Like Classy said when Hitler Killed himself that pretty much ended WWII that was a reason to celebrate but this is yeah Im happy but it doesn't change anything really.

The Bible goes further than just 'Thou shalt not kill'.

I think it's wrong to celebrate his death. I understand the reaction but I do not think it is morally good.

As Ex pointed out, the pictures of Americans being killed was deplorable, so was the scenes across America this week. Such hypocrisy and celebration over the loss of life.

We are not the judges, friends.

To quote the Bunk (from the wire): Makes me sick, mother******, how far we done fell.

The bible actually if translated properly says.. Thou shall do no murder.

America is in a war with cowards who won't stand up and fight. They attack us when we least expect it and hide behind women, children if it can save their hides. I do NOT consider the killing of Osama MURDER. He led the attack on America, HE murdered. We killed him in a WAR on terror. Go USA.

Well, anyway lets please get the Bible translated properly anyway. Thou shall do no murder. Sometimes it is appropriate to kill. We are in a WAR.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Rick:

Yes, it is. You'd think people who purportedly are "pro life" would think so too.... But, you'd be wrong..

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The MURDER of innocent life and the killing of an evil man that wanted to do us all harm... big difference. I haven't LEARNED you a thing on this site Ex. UGH... shaking my head. Tsk tsk

Hello T:

This isn't about killing... It's about celebrating it.

excon

Well ClassyT,

I'm not sure which Bible you own but I'm almost certain you're translation (and almost positive your interpretation) is incorrect. Perhaps since the Bible pre-dates the creation of the word.

Nevetheless, I cannot disagree more with your reasons for killing, murder, whatever, or justification for celebrating.

Where do you get this hiding behind women, children, etc. stuff from? Or that 'they' are all cowards?

Do you work for Fox News?

Ex,

I was explaining why I as a pro life kind of gal doesn't think it is wrong to celebrate that we killed man that did us harm and would do us harm again if he could.

I suppose it is just semantics to say I am not celebrating his death but that justice has been done. But I am. I wouldn't wish anyone that wasn't prepared to meet God that appointment. But in all fairness, it was Osama's choice.

I don't get it. I really don't get why we can't celebrate this small but important victory without seeming like heartless people.

I'd have rejoiced over Hitler too had I been around. Evil is evil.

Yeah, that old straw man about pro-lifers celebrating death. I haven't celebrated anything but just being served. Families that lost loved to this man can have some long deserved closure. America can stand proud that we didn't give up until that justice was served and notice given that our reach is long enough to bring you to justice one way or another if you strike us.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Evil is evil.

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Hello again, T:

My classy friend, you've hit the nail on the head. Those three words encapsulates the argument...

IF you're of a religious bent, you believe in evil, and celebrate its demise. Being a nation made up mostly of people with a religious bent, the celebration could have been anticipated...

However, being a person NOT of a religious bent, I don't believe in evil. I didn't celebrate, and was taken aback when my fellow Americans did.

excon

War Crimes Trials

What happened to War crime trials? Is it only when its convient, or when there's no recession?

Was it cheaper to just shoot him?

Don't the families deserve to see a trial, questions answered?

(below text taken from above link)

' On December 17, 1942, the leaders of the United States, Great Britain, and the Soviet Union issued the first joint declaration officially noting the mass murder of European Jews and resolving to prosecute those responsible for crimes against civilian populations'

Does this still stand?

Goverments got their sh!t together then, why not now?

Wars kill people, OBL being dead does not change anything, someone else will take his place, at least with OBL there was intelligence on him, the new guy, and there will be a new guy could be the start of a whole new era in terror.

Celebrate his death, no, not for me.

The Cadets at West Point rushed out of their dorms into the common areas to 'celebrate' . Are they less 'warriors' than you ?
I celebrate the fine job the intel people and the Seals did. I celebrate life and don't think innocent life should be taken . However that isn't what we are talking about here. We are talking of the leader who initiated a war against this country some 15 years ago ;and murdered people by the thousands here and around the world. He was a weed in the garden that needed plucking .

Is justice and revenge mutually exclusive ? If there is a murder of a family member ;isn't the desire to see the murderer executed both a desire for justice and vengeance ?

For the last decade I attended funerals of brave first responders from my town ;and memorial services annually .
On my own I am not capable of extracting either justice or vengeance for what I saw on 9-11. That is why we organize into society;nations etc. When I heard the news I did celebrate the long denied justice and venegence . I celebrated that with my country.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The Cadets at West Point rushed out of their dorms into the common areas to 'celebrate' . Are they less 'warriors' than you ?

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Hello again, tom:

YES! They're warrior WANNABE'S. When they SEE their bullets tear apart a body, or SEE their buddies get blown away, they'll change their mind. Or not. I don't speak for them. I only know how I dealt with it. I'm sure the bloodthirsty are still amongst them.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

The bible actually if translated properly says..Thou shall do no murder.

America is in a war with cowards who won't stand up and fight. They attack us when we least expect it and hide behind women, children if it can save their hides. I do NOT consider the killing of Osama MURDER. He led the attack on America, HE murdered. We killed him in a WAR on terror. Go USA.

Well, anyway lets please get the Bible translated properly anyway. Thou shall do no murder. Sometimes it is appropriate to kill. we are in a WAR.

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I'm not religious by no means so my apologies on misinterpreting the Bible.

Our leaders fail to name the enemy and have renamed the war on a number of occasions . I think it's now called a 'kinetic operation'or some such jibberish .

There will be no VE VJ day to run out on the streets to celebrate. There was an attempt to declare a VI day (Victory in Iraq) on Nov 22,2008 .It was unofficial ;but corresponded roughly with the 'Status of Forces' agreement signed between the US and the freely elected government of Iraq. .

Since there will be no declared end to "overseas contingency operations" ; this is the next best thing.

I am not ecstatic that a life was taken. It's a somber thing that it had to happen at all.

BUT--bin Laden was a mass-murderer, and a conspiring criminal against non-Muslim peoples. He was dangerous, and we all knew what we were in the Middle East to do. Killing him was almost inevitable.

I mourn the thousands upon thousands of innocent people who have died in pursuit of that man. And the thousands more that will probably die in pursuit of others like him.

What we do in the name of justice is gloomy. I would celebrate peace, if that were ever to happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by redhed35

War Crimes Trials

what happened to War crime trials? is it only when its convient, or when theres no recession?

was it cheaper to just shoot him?

dont the families deserve to see a trial, questions answered?

(below text taken from above link)

' On December 17, 1942, the leaders of the United States, Great Britain, and the Soviet Union issued the first joint declaration officially noting the mass murder of European Jews and resolving to prosecute those responsible for crimes against civilian populations'

does this still stand?

goverments got their sh!t together then, why not now?

Wars kill people, OBL being dead does not change anything, someone else will take his place, at least with OBL there was intelligence on him, the new guy, and there will be a new guy could be the start of a whole new era in terror.

celebrate his death, no, not for me.

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So you disagree with the action of shooting him? You would rather have him on trial? I'm just trying to get things straight...

Milosevic was the ethnic cleansing ruler of Serbia. He went to the Hague to face war crimes. Had he not died of old age there would've been a mistrial and he'd've walked .

This Seals operation was a military action against the leader of the enemy while the war is still ongoing.As I stated on the other posting it is more similar to the downing of Yamamoto's plane.

Without his death, there is no justice. Celebrating the justice served is in turn celebrating his death is it not?

Maybe I worded the question wrong, as I see a lot of you dancing around the question. I realize it's not black and white but it's more black and white than you all think.


Am I wrong here? Am I thinking too black too white? Either you celebrated or you didn't. Please understand my interpretation of celebration. It doesn't mean you had to get tossed with buddies or throw a party. But you rejoiced in the justice, you were happy about it, you were glad to see it finally happen.

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Originally Posted by ITstudent2006

Celebrating the justice served is in turn celebrating his death is it not?

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Not necessarily. A family can celebrate a judge's decision that their child murderer has been sentenced to death in that justice has been served. When the person is actually put to death they don't often celebrate that moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, T:

My classy friend, you've hit the nail on the head. Those three words encapsulates the argument...

IF you're of a religious bent, you believe in evil, and celebrate its demise. Being a nation made up mostly of people with a religious bent, the celebration could have been anticipated...

However, being a person NOT of a religious bent, I don't believe in evil. I didn't celebrate, and was taken aback when my fellow Americans did.

excon

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Hmmm? You don't have to be religious ( which I am NOT religious... I'm a christian) to know evil is in this world. Hitler ordered the deaths of millions just because they were Jewish, Osama ordered of the death of thousands just because of what they stood for and you don't see evil in that? You didn't see evil when you watched innocent people willingly jump to their deaths rather than burn? What DID you see?

When someone does you personally dirty or wrong... you don't believe it? It isn't evil? How about the post I read where you were outraged by how an african american was treated on a bus. If I recall correctly, you got into a fight over it. Why is that Steve?. because there is no evil in this world? If there is no wrong or right... why fight? It wasn't your JOB then. It was your choice. I'm not buying exy so you shouldn't be selling it. ;) just saying.

What choices do we get in addition to "celebrate"?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Not necessarily. A family can celebrate a judge's decision that their child murderer has been sentenced to death in that justice has been served. When the person is actually put to death they don't often celebrate that moment.

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You are correct but that isn't the case here. The only justice that can be found out of this situation is his death. There was no trial, no capture, no explanation of past actions, just his death. So to say you celebrate the justice is in turn celebrating his death because that's all we have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

hmmm? you don't have to be religious ( which i am NOT religious....I'm a christian) to know evil is in this world. Hitler ordered the deaths of millions just because they were Jewish, Osama ordered of the death of thousands just because of what they stood for and you don't see evil in that? you didn't see evil when you watched innocent people willingly jump to their deaths rather than burn? What DID you see?

When someone does you personally dirty or wrong...you don't believe it? It isn't evil? How bout the post I read where you were outraged by how an african american was treated on a bus. If i recall correctly, you got into a fight over it. why is that Steve?...because there is no evil in this world? If there is no wrong or right...why fight? It wasn't your JOB then. It was your choice. I'm not buyin exy so you shouldn't be sellin it. ;) just sayin.

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Steve? Who's Steve :D

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Originally Posted by BMI

Well ClassyT,

I'm not sure which Bible you own but I'm almost certain you're translation (and almost positive your interpretation) is incorrect. Perhaps since the Bible pre-dates the creation of the word.

Nevetheless, I cannot disagree more with your reasons for killing, murder, whatever, or justification for celebrating.

Where do you get this hiding behind women, children, etc. stuff from? Or that 'they' are all cowards?

Do you work for Fox News?

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It isn't incorrect. Thou shalt not murder is the proper translation. I really don't think it is up for debate. And murder covers a slew of things.. including hatred which is where murder REALLY begins.

Anyway, I don't mean to get off on a tangent. I don't think we should party and celebrate for weeks over this. But I see NOTHING wrong with a few WHOOT WHOOTs and hearty congrats to our troops and maybe even doing a little silly dance. Osama meant us harm at best and played a 10 year hide and seek game. One of our missions was to get him, we did. Why NOT celebrate.

The terriorist ARE cowards. Osama hid in a compound... what do you call him? Misguided? Ugh

No.. I don't work for Fox news. Although that wasn't insulting to me if that is what you meant it to be. I'm just an American woman with an opinion. Right or wrong.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

What choices do we get in addition to "celebrate"?

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Whatever your heart desires...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ITstudent2006

But you rejoiced in the justice, you were happy about it, you were glad to see it finally happen.

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Hello again, IT:

Everyone wants to see the bad guy get his... The question is, was his killing "justice". That's a much larger question.

It's not whether he deserved it, or whether he was a bad guy. It's whether we are a nation of laws. Do we kill unarmed civilians? IS he a civilian? Do we assassinate foreign leaders? IS he a foreign leader? Was the purpose of the mission to KILL? Does the authorization to use force that Bush went to war with allow us to target Bin Laden?

Look. I don't pretend to know the answers to these questions... But, they need answering. Yes, he deserved it. Was it justice? It doesn't feel real good - him being UNARMED and not resisting..

excon

Many of the young people who showed up in Washington, C.D.'s Lafayette Park right after the announcement on Sunday evening were probably under 15 years of age when the Towers were attacked. I didn't understand their jumping up and down and flag waving. It was almost like, "Oh, there's a party in the park, the weather is good, so let's go!!"

"Celebrate" is the wrong word for this. I'm not sure I know what an appropriate one is. Will have to think on that.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Many of the young people who showed up in Washington, C.D.'s Lafayette Park right after the announcement on Sunday evening were probably under 15 years of age when the Towers were attacked. I didn't understand their jumping up and down and flag waving. It was almost like, "Oh, there's a party in the park, the weather is good, so let's go!!"

"Celebrate" is the wrong word for this. I'm not sure I know what an appropriate one is. Will have to think on that.

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I was exactly 15 when it happened. I didn't really understand all of the implications, but I knew it was bad and I knew that I was upset at the terrorists.

Since then, I've grown up more and learned more about the world. All I've known my entire teen and adult life is this war or whatever it's called today against terrorism.

I was just a child playing with American Girl Dolls when there wasn't a conflict with the Taliban. So... while it's all I know, I certainly know about it. I don't think that all the young people are just partying-they, like me, like you, like most everyone, are sick of terrorism and sick of the fighting.

I'm relieved that one of our greatest enemies has been brought to justice.

Is relieved an okay adjective? Even if it's a little insensitive to human life?

Maybe that is the word we need to substitute for celebration. Relieved.

Is it wrong to feel relief from the death of a human life? IF they deserved it?

Deserving death is relative though. As stated earlier by myself the Bible says though shall not kill (or murder or whatever) but the Qu`ran says kill the infadels. To us he deserved it, to "them" he did not. This leads me back to "is might right"?

We can bounce questions back and forth all day and too be honest, I would love to but lets answer some of these first ones before we answer more.

Exy: Was it justice? I think so. As stated by myself earlier there was no trial, no questions, explanations, no prison-time, etc... just death. It's the only thing we have, the only thing we can get a sense of justice out of. (IMO)

P.S. I was 14 on 9/11

For the soldiers that shot him, I've no problem there, that's their job, they got their orders and carried it through.

If he had been captured and was being brought to justice,being brought to trial, that would have been worth celebrating.

I'm" relieved" when a terriorist attack is twarted. I celebrated when we got osama. But that is just me. I won't be politically correct here. There is a time for celebration. It doesn't have to be an inappropriate celebration. There CAN be a difference.

Exy,

This is a war on terror not a war on another country. Are there clear cut rules when this war is unlike any others? We don't always even know who are enemies are here. I don't know if Osama was armed or not armed but I DO know he could have arranged for the last 9 1/2 years to surrender peacefully. He chose not to. It isn't like he had no other choices to consider over the YEARS.

Oh well, I guess I'm a cold harded witch. I celebrated. Justice was served. I'm moving on...