Ask Me Help Desk - US Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Az)

US Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Az)

Reports are sketchy but confirmed that Gabrielle Giffords has been shot along with a number of people at an event in Tucson Arizona.

The shooter is said to be in custody the name of the shooter is being withheld . She is married to astronaut Mark Kelly, commander of STS 134, the last scheduled space shuttle mission .

Giffords is a member of the Democrat 'blue dog ' coalition. I'm sure there will be more detail later. Right now everything else is speculation.

Edit :My earlier posting that she is dead is premature at this point. There are some sites that report her killed and others say she is still alive in surgery.

Good news . Doctor says she is out of surgery and that he'd optimistic about her recovery.

Also among the vicitims of the shootings is Federal Judge John Roll ,who was killed .

AP has named the shooter as 22 year old Jared Lee Loughner. His web ramblings show that he is a disturbed man.

They are saying the shooter is a loner who has written on the Internet all sorts of rambling passages about the numbering of years and problems with currency, all accompanied by music, but it doesn't seem to be a political shooting.

***EDIT***Now it is being reported that the congresswoman was conducting a town-hall-type meeting, and the deranged shooter showed up and began shooting.

Our prayers for all the injured and the families of them and those killed.

It is sad when those who wish to lead and be in touch with the public have to fear to be in public. And it is sad that our culture really has no help in place for those that often need it but will not get it.

What a senseless act... prayers for all involved.

Prayers she gets through it with little more than a bad memory and a scar to show for it. And for the five families who lost someone.

Another bit of fallout from no longer being able to keep the severely mentally disturbed locked up, BEFORE they do something horrible.

This is such a blatant and wasteful crime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Another bit of fallout from no longer being able to keep the severely mentally disturbed locked up, BEFORE they do something horrible.

They used to be locked up, but in the early '70s, it was decided that they too had rights, could be released from hospitals and other institutions, and be responsible for taking their medications. Keeping them locked up wasn't PC.

We've seen how well that has worked out -- increased drug use and traffic, homelessness, families at each other throats, theft, murder.. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

They used to be locked up, but in the early '70s, it was decided that they too had rights, could be released from hospitals and other institutions, and be responsible for taking their medications. Keeping them locked up wasn't PC.

We've seen how well that has worked out -- increased drug use and traffic, homelessness, families at each other throats, theft, murder... .

Never gets attention until its someone prominent either. Look how fast this stuff turned up about him... less than an hour, that means LOTS of people knew about his issues. Yet was anything ever done? Too early to know for sure... but I'm making an early guess that he wasn't in therapy or treatment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Too early to know for sure....but I'm making an early guess that he wasn't in therapy or treatment.

Even if he had been once -- or twice -- or fifty times, mental illness is not something you "get over" and go back to normal. It a lifelong struggle. The mentally ill typically stop taking their meds or going to therapy when they finally start feeling better, which of course is exactly what they shouldn't do. Many times, they have "good reasons" for not taking their meds, to wit --

My bipolar uncle was given an MAOI after his previous med stopped being effective. It seemed to be working well. One day, he was talking with a neighbor who informed him that he couldn't eat cheese with that particular med. (My uncle very likely hadn't read the accompanying information sheet about the drug when he picked it up from the pharmacy. What mentally ill person does?) My uncle loved cheese, and immediately went off his med. One of my clients hated taking her meds spaced throughout the day, so she swallowed them all at one time at night before bed, promptly threw them up, and cursed psychiatry. A schizophrenic friend wrote her best poetry when she was off meds, so she refused to take them.

So tell me why Jared shot nineteen people?

It will come out... we just have to wait a while longer for it to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

It will come out....we just have to wait a while longer for it to.

And the "reason" may not make sense to anyone, including the shooter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And the "reason" may not make sense to anyone, including the shooter.

How often does it ever? Really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

How often does it ever? Really?

My son had TV on all evening (*gack* five feet to my left). Commentators and reporters are ranting about the politics of it all. That may be in there a little, but the shooting goes far beyond politics. That might be only the "reason" given that "normals" can hang their hat on.

A nut job did it, plane and simple, a young nutjob... did the Bush blaming start yet? Want to take bets on how long before his name is brought up by someone on the left? OR until someone starts claiming Obamacare would have prevented it? Or its global warming...

Bet it won't last the night if it hasn't started already. Haven't been watching the news... Been watching movies all night.

Had the mentally impared been taken care of like they once were... these people would likely be still walking... and John Lennon would likely still be with us too.

Like you said... the mentally impaired really aren't in the situation where they should be allowed to decide if they need meds or not. A few actually Like the voices in their heads... etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

A nut job did it, plane and simple, a young nutjob... did the Bush blaming start yet? Want to take bets on how long before his name is brought up by someone on the left? OR until someone starts claiming Obamacare would have prevented it? Or its global warming...

An unmedicated nut.. . Oh, yeah, Obamacare has been mentioned. I haven't heard Bush talked about, and my son has had mostly MSNBC on.

Quote:

Bet it won't last the night if it hasn't started already.

It's a feeding frenzy right now.

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A few actually Like the voices in their heads... etc.

Like my poet friend Brownie. Or my word-salad friend Brian who gives me Christian hugs. Or my five-times-married narcissist friend Jerry.

I'm waiting to see what the Washington Post dreams up in the morning... I'm about ready to cancel that waste of money... Its only good for the Sunday comics and coupons. Nothing but propaganda anymore. Article today forgiving Helen Thomas for her SOBER anti Semetic rant that got her fired saing she deseves to return to work... But they all but called for Mel Gibsons execution for a DRUNKEN rant.

100-1 odds the News agencys make this purely political by the AM. And ignore the shooters obvious instability. Want to take me up on it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

100-1 odds the News agencys make this purely political by the AM. and ignore the shooters obvious instability. Want to take me up on it?

You've got a sure thing there. So far NO ONE has talked about mental illness in this country and the changes that came about in treatment during the 1970s. I feel like calling one of our columnists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You've got a sure thing there. So far NO ONE has talked about mental illness in this country and the changes that came about in treatment during the 1970s. I feel like calling one of our columnists.

Go for it... I really should do it too... if I could decide which one.

Have you read any of this guy's rants on YouTube?

It seems pretty clear that he was schizophrenic.

YouTube - Classitup10's Channel

While we are at it, why not write our congressmen about the increased need of mental health care? I have.

To me that was random, senseless mumbo jumbo...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

They used to be locked up, but in the early '70s, it was decided that they too had rights, could be released from hospitals and other institutions, and be responsible for taking their medications. Keeping them locked up wasn't PC.

We've seen how well that has worked out -- increased drug use and traffic, homelessness, families at each other throats, theft, murder... .

That began here in California under Governor Reagan. It was a cost cutting program to release the mentally ill onto the streets, where they have pretty much remained ever since. It was not a liberal idea but a conservative, anti-tax idea.

I monitored the blogs yesterday . Sarah Palin and the 'Tea Party' got the biggest number mentions
The idiot Paul Krugman blamed the 'Tea Party' early in the afternoon well before any facts were established
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...pt-in-arizona/
Mental health was 1st brought up here and appears to be the real story behind these murders .

Christina Taylor Green a 9 year old girl newly elected to her school student council was gunned down by Loughner.
She was born 9-11-01 and was featured in a book called 'Faces of Hope, Babies Born on 9/11 '.
Amazon.com: Faces of Hope, Babies Born on 9/11 (9780757300974): Christine Naman: Books

Other victims murdered include as already mentioned U.S. District Judge John McCarthy Roll, who was appointed by President George H.W. Bush in 1991.He was leaving church and appears to be a random victim. Notable is the fact that he has been at the center of the illegal immigration controversy.

Gabe Zimmerman, an aide to Rep. Giffords.Zimmerman was engaged to be married.

Dorwin Stoddard, 76, a pastor at Mountain Ave. Church of Christ. His wife Mavanell was shot in the legs and is expected to survive.

Dorthy Murray, 76.

Phyllis Scheck, 79.

13 people were wounded including
Gifford's deputy director Ron Barber ,and staffer, Pam Simon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asking

That began here in California under Governor Reagan. It was a cost cutting program to release the mentally ill onto the streets, where they have pretty much remained ever since. It was not a liberal idea but a conservative, anti-tax idea.

Deinstitutionalisation is a movement that began early in the 20th century. If I was to place a political movement behind it(which I don't) ,I would have to point to the 'progressive" movement that began at the end of the 19th century.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringer

To me that was random, senseless mumbo jumbo....

That is the thinking of many unmedicated schizophrenics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

A nut job did it, plane and simple, a young nutjob.......did the Bush blaming start yet?

Hello smoothy:

Nahhh... Bush didn't put crosshairs on her district... Sarah Palin did.

excon

A Nexus search will show that is a common political metaphor that both sides and the press regularly employ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

a Nexus search will show that is a common political metaphor that both sides and the press regularily employ.

Hello again, tom:

So, two wrongs DO make a right... Look, if that excuses her, and makes you feel better, go for it.

excon

By the way . The Palin map in question did not use crosshairs. It had surveyor symbols which are commonly used to pinpoint locations on a map .

Okay guys, this was neither the fault of Bush, Palin OR Obama. This was a case of unmedicated mental illness.

Let's not turn this into a political debate because that's not what it is. Let's stick to the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

the Palin map in question did not use crosshairs. It had surveyor symbols which are commonly used to pinpoint locations on a map .

Hello again, tom:

I'm SURE you're not the first right winger spin it this way. Look. I don't know IF using "surveryors" symbols, or Sharron Angle's remarks about using Second Amendment remedies, or Michelle Bachmans remarks about her supporters being "locked and loaded", causes nuts like these to take action... But, the thinking of the day is that it COULD!

Yet, people like you poo poo that, and say they're surveyor symbols... Who can blame Palin for using SURVEYOR symbols??

excon

Let's stick to the original topic or this thread will be closed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

Let's not turn this into a political debate because that's not what it is. Let's stick to the OP.

Hello J:

You're not suggesting that this ISN'T political, are you?? Well, you might be, and you'd be wrong..

excon

No, I wouldn't be wrong. This is about mental illness. Now, let's get back on topic.

Here is a Dem map in 2006 that actually uses targets
DLC: Heartland Strategy by Will Marshall

Who published this map ? The Democrat Leadership Committee.
But that map is no biggie and doesn't inspire deranged lunatics to attack politicians... and neither did Palin's map.
This guy's politics from what I read is inconsistent ;or perhaps reminicent of the late 19th century anarchist movement .

J-9 I posted this as an open OP . It turned into a mental illness one and that's OK. But I never intended it to be restricted to that.

Ex and I are not having a hostile discussion ;just a debate .

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello J:

You're not suggesting that this ISN'T political, are you??? Well, you might be, and you'd be wrong..

excon

You know politics, I don't. I know mental illness, you don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Ex and I are not having a hostile discussion ;just a debate .

Then take it to another thread as this one is going severely off topic from the OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_9

Let's stick to the original topic or this thread will be closed.

Hello again, J:

If you were operating as a MOD, I wouldn't quibble... But, you are a right winger, and it upsets you to hear your favorite people blamed for this tragedy. I haven't even started on Glenn Beck...

I understand how you feel. I'd feel that way too. But, I WOULDN'T pretend that what you're threatening to do is because you're a mod. J, my friend, THIS is a time for you to recuse yourself as a mod.

excon