Ask Me Help Desk - I don't know if you noticed, but our war with gay people is about to end.

I don't know if you noticed, but our war with gay people is about to end.

Hello:

There seems to be a spate of events related to our discrimination against gay people recently. A college student taped his gay roommate having sex and broadcast it... The gay student killed himself...

Here is an interview with Anderson Cooper with a crazy LAWYER who works for the ATTORNEY GENERAL in his state. He's being investigated now, but I can't believe he hasn't been fired...

Don't ask, don't tell is about to fall. TWO federal judges ruled against it in just the past month... Nope. It's over. What we're seeing is the last gasp of a dying philosophy. Bummer for you righty's, huh?

excon

In the original 'MASH' movie they miked a tent where Hot Lips and Frank Burns were “doing it”. In ' American Pie' they used a webcam to record one of their buddies sexual encounters.

I don't think the Rutgers tragedy is much different than a college prank that went bad.

Dharun Ravi, 18, of Plainsboro and Molly Wei, 18, of Princeton have been charged with invasion of privacy .

Let's think this through . 2 freshmen students who I presume were immigrant or 2nd generation children of immigrants webcam a roommate's sex as a pranking . The evidence of discrimination is that one of them ,Ravi made comments on line that his roommate was making out with a dude.
This happened at one of the liberal bastions of higher learning in NJ .

Now ,if (as you call it) discrimination against gay people ... is a dying philosophy;you would've thought the first place it would've been buried was on a liberal campus.

The real issue here is a lack of respect among our youth ,regardless of their sexual preferences . Already four teen students, as young as 13 and as old as 18, have taken their lives this school year because of ridicule and bullying .
Since 2003 in the United States, at least a dozen youths between 11 and 18 have killed themselves after some form of cyberbullying.

So why is this different than taping a man and women having sex ? They were having sex and someone taped them,
If they were ashamed of what they were doing, they should not have been doing it them HUH ?

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

so why is this different than taping a man and women having sex ? they were having sex and someone taped them,
If they were ashamed of what they were doing, they should not have been doing it them HUH ?

The difference is the left has labeled this tragedy a hate crime.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

The difference is the left has labeled this tragedy a hate crime.

Was it? If not, what was the motivation? Have the two perps been interviewed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

I don't think the Rutgers tragedy is much different than a college prank that went bad.

Now ,if (as you call it) discrimination against gay people ...is a dying philosophy;you would've thought the first place it would've been buried was on a liberal campus.

Hello again, tom:

Certainly, there will be holdouts. You may be one of them. But, as a national policy, it's ending.

I agree it's a prank gone bad - really bad. So what? Does that mean they're not culpable?? I remember as a young lad in the boy scouts, we were cleaning bark off a tree to make a totem pole. I took the blade kind of thing and just jokingly ran it across my friends leg. I cut a gash a couple inches long. Should I have been held culpable?? You betcha.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

so why is this different than taping a man and women having sex ? they were having sex and someone taped them,
If they were ashamed of what they were doing, they should not have been doing it them HUH ?

The difference was the young man committed suicide over it.
It wasn't only taped but it was streamed over the internet for anyone and everyone to see. The kid found out about it, filed a complaint, then jumped off the GW Bridge.

I don't know if this is as much about discrimination against gays as Excon (& Ellen DeGeneres) appear to believe it is. In my opinion I think it is more about cyber bullying which leads a teen to commit suicide. There have been at least 4 cases prior to this one that I am aware of. Do you remember that young teen who hanged herself? We saw the same amount of outrage over Megan Meier's death that we are seeing over Tyler Clementi's death. Suicide of Megan Meier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

In the original 'MASH' movie they miked a tent where Hot Lips and Frank Burns were “doing it”. In ' American Pie' they used a webcam to record one of their buddies sexual encounters.

First, these are movies, FICTION. Second, In MASH, the people were all adults thrust into a situation that cried for letting off steam. Third, in American Pie the boy was aware the webcam was running. So I don't believe either example is valid.

On the other hand, I'm not sure I agree with excon that this shows the "war" ending. Just as the election of President Obama doesn't mean that prejudice and bigotry has ended in America.

Scott ;I don't know if these kids ever saw Mash . But
I'm fairly certain that they have seen American Pie ,and may very well have been influenced by it. You left off the key part of my observation... that it was a college prank and not intended as some form of gay bashing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Scott ;I don't know if these kids ever saw Mash . But
I'm fairly certain that they have seen American Pie ,and may very well have been influenced by it. You left off the key part of my observation .....that it was a college prank and not intended as some form of gay bashing.

I don't understand what you're getting at Tom. American Pie is a movie. It's fiction. It's for entertainment. What does that have to do with real life?

Prank or not, it resulted in a human committing suicide. It was a cruel thing to do, even if it wasn't a hate crime, or gay bashing, but just a prank. I hope the two people that committed this crime have many years to think about what they did, behind bars.

Quote:

Prank or not, it resulted in a human committing suicide. It was a cruel thing to do, even if it wasn't a hate crime, or gay bashing, but just a prank.

Granted . My comments are about the OP which suggests that the motive was gay bashing . I'm guessing that it was not. Excon also suggests that this incident demonstrates that "discrimination against gay people"... is a dying philosophy" . I was simply pointing out that if it was motivated by anti-gay attitudes then it hardly demonstrates a changing attitude.

I'll go further... if it takes a judicial decision to change DADT then that also fails to demonstrate changing attitudes. If indeed there were changing attitudes in the military then a judicial decision would not be necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

gay bashing . I'm guessing that it was not.

So the two students had webcams scattered through the dorm in order to catch on film ANYone having sex in a dorm room??

I don't think so!

There was ONE webcam, and it was in this particular guy's room. It was there because he was gay. His activities were being watched and Twittered about. When the time was ripe, the webcam was turned on to film.

Here's an article from The Guardian --

One [of the accused] was Dharun Ravi, [Clementi's] roommate at college, the other Ravi's friend Molly Wei, who had a room on the same corridor. On the evening of Sunday 19 September, according to the account given by police, Clementi asked his roommate to give him some time alone in the room they shared.

Ravi agreed, and went down the hall into Wei's room. There, he allegedly logged onto Wei's computer and used it to access through Skype a webcam he had set up on his own computer back in the room he shared with Clementi.

It is not known whether what happened next was accidental or preconceived, but Ravi and Wei are alleged to have watched Clementi in what authorities described as a "sexual encounter" with another man.

It is claimed that Ravi then streamed the video live, and that same night broadcast to the 150 followers of his Twitter feed details of his voyeuristic escapade, outing Clementi in the process: "Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

Two evenings later, Ravi tweeted: "Anyone with iChat, I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9.30 and 12. Yes it's happening again."

Perhaps this incident (along with several others recently) will build sympathy for gays and the enormous stressors they have living among the rest of us so-called "normals."

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

I'll go further .....if it takes a judical decision to change DADT then that also fails to demonstrate changing attitudes. If indeed there were changing attitudes in the military then a judicial decision would not be necessary.

Hello tom:

That's not the way it works here... If we waited for attitudes in the south to change, there would STILL be TWO sets of facilities down there - one for white people and one for black. The court leads - the nation follows.

Now, I agree with you, in that it SHOULD be the way YOU say it is... But, it ain't.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello tom:

That's not the way it works here..... If we waited for attitudes in the south to change, there would STILL be TWO sets of facilities down there - one for white people and one for black. The court leads - the nation follows.

Now, I agree with you, in that it SHOULD be the way YOU say it is.... But, it ain't.

excon

So then attitudes aren't changing as you claim .The court is forcing social change. I'll give you my evidence. Wherever gay marriage has been put to the ballot ;it has been defeated.

WG
Are you saying that if his roomy was asking for the room for a straight sex trist,that he wouldn't have set up the webcam prank ?

"I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay."

That sounds like a prank, not a hate crime. Granted, there should be a price to pay, but the vigilantes and opportunists need to back off and let the justice system do its job.

Quote:

Don't ask, don't tell is about to fall. TWO federal judges ruled against it in just the past month...

A judge slapped an injunction on DADT . I was going to give the old Andrew Jackson line about the judge made the ruling ,let him enforce it... but I see the Obama Administration beat me to it.
Obama administration appeals gay marriage ruling | Reuters

Hello again, tom:

Gay marriage and DADT aren't the same issue. Obama does NOT support gay marriage - he said so. He DOES support ending DADT - he said so. The INJUNCTION against DADT wasn't appealed, and I don't think it will be.

Nope. This is the last gasp of an ancient human emotion.

excon

Just thought I'd let you know that Iowa voters fired a shot in the war...

Quote:

Iowans dismiss three justices

Three Iowa Supreme Court justices lost their seats Tuesday in a historic upset fueled by their 2009 decision that allowed same-sex couples to marry.

Vote totals from 96 percent of Iowa's 1,774 precincts showed Chief Justice Marsha Ternus and Justices David Baker and Michael Streit with less than the simple majority needed to stay on the bench.

Their removal marked the first time an Iowa Supreme Court justice has not been retained since 1962, when the merit selection and retention system for judges was adopted.

The decision is expected to echo to courts throughout the country, as conservative activists had hoped. "It appears we're headed for a resounding victory tonight and a historic moment in the state of Iowa," said Bob Vander Plaats, the Sioux City businessman who led a campaign to remove the justices because of the 2009 gay marriage ruling. "The people of Iowa stood up in record numbers and sent a message ... that it is 'We the people,' not 'We the courts.' "

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

If they were ashamed of what they were doing, they should not have been doing it them HUH ?

I think its less of feeling ashamed and more of an understanding of societies stand on this behavior. Knowing full well ridicul was on the way and his life would be different at that school from that moment on. I don't think he was ashamed, he just understood that society in general won't let this go lightly.

Hello again,

Cool. Now you can love your country AND the guy in your foxhole.

excon

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UJMJ) - ART. 125. SODOMY

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UJMJ) - ART. 125. SODOMY

That could be you and your wife!

Hello again, tom:

Me and couple buddies wanted to spend the weekend in Jacksonvile, Florida, so we drove down from Charleston, S.C. where our ship was stationed at the time. On the way, we stopped for lunch. My BLACK shipmate had to wait in the car, though.

The restaurant that did that, had a law on the books that allowed them to do it - just like the sodomy law you cite. When congress signed the Civil Rights Act, those laws changed - just like the sodomy law you cited will surly change.

excon

I guess there is no more justification for the law ;no legitimate state interest to make moral judgement... or is there a line in the sand even libertarians will not cross ?

How about the case of Columbia Professor David Epstein who is accused of incest with his adult daughter ? Does the state have a compelling interest there ? They are 2 consenting adults .

Epstein faces up to four years behind bars if convicted.

Columbia professor is charged with incest, accused of bedding young relative for 3 years

If they were permitted to marry then they would at least solve the estate tax issue.

What does incest have to do with same-sex marriage or gays serving in the military?

It has everything to do with it. The justification for the 'right' is that the 'state' has no business legislating morality .

I just wonder what line in the sand there is if any .

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

The justification for the 'right' is that the 'state' has no business legislating morality

Hello again, tom:

Nahhh, tom... It's just that what you consider immoral, the nation doesn't any more. I think it's immoral to waterboard somebody... You think it's just hunky dory.

excon

So there are lines in the sand... it's just a matter then of shifting standards... I'll say it again;when given a vote ,the people of the country have consistently voted against things like gay marriage. But it has been evident since the Texas case that the Courts will ignore the will of the people and impose their own version of morality on the nation. Evidently lame duck Senators are willing to do the same .

I find it very interesting that the Democrats waited for a lame duck session ;after the elections ,to do this legislation. I find it also very interesting that Joe Manchin of West Va. who faces another election campaign in 2 years opted to go shopping rather than to vote on this issue.

You should also be pleased however that social issues are not a defining issue with tea party Senators. 2 Senators supported by the tea party voted for the repeal . (Kirk and Brown)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

So there are lines in the sand ....it's just a matter then of shifting standards..... I'll say it again;when given a vote ,the people of the country have consistently voted against things like gay marriage.

Hello tom:

Shifting standards?? Nahhh... We're still the good people we've always been. What changes is our ASSESSMENT of how we stack up against those standards... This vote says we were on the wrong side of 'em. You believe it's immoral for gay people to participate in the public process.. The PUBLIC now realizes that it's immoral to deny their participation...

In terms of shifting standards, though... We ALWAYS knew that waterboarding was torture, and it ALWAYS will be. It's YOUR side that made a humongous shift on that... Personally, it's easier to live a life if these standards DON'T change..

excon

Since it's now okay to be an open "gay" in the military be prepared to read lots of friendly fire accidental killings in the papers and on the net where no one was indicted for accidentally killing a gay. If the gays were smart they'd only do desk duty jobs and stay out of the fighting arenas where they are bound to "catch" a few stray bullets. Real men serving in the military don't like gay folks regardless if there is a law against it. You can't force anyone to go against their moral principals regardless if it's against the law. You'll see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

Since it's now okay to be an open "gay" in the military be prepared to read lots of friendly fire accidental killings in the papers and on the net where no one was indicted for accidently killing a gay. ...You'll see.

See: Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

see: Psychological projection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What has that got to do with what I said? The men or women in the military who are straight really don't like gay folks. Who is to say that the gay folks won't conveniently become "friendly fire fodder"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

The men or women in the military who are straight really don't like gay folks.

Do you have stats to back that up?

Gay people live and work among us civilians too. Should we just do away with all of them, military and civilian?

WG,
Sometimes people troll forums to get others riled up with their comments.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

WG,
Sometimes people troll forums to get others riled up with their comments.

I've read many of Twink's posts and know how she thinks. (Hmmm, Twink's thinks... )

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

WG,
Sometimes people troll forums to get others riled up with their comments.

Lol

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Originally Posted by tomder55

lol

So far today according to NK, I'm a hater and Twinkie is projecting and trolling. Ironic isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

Since it's now okay to be an open "gay" in the military be prepared to read lots of friendly fire accidental killings.... You'll see.

Hello again,

My friend twink speaks the truth. The hate DOES run that deep. However, in spite of their virulent disagreement with the new rules, I hope our men in uniform aren't murderers. We'll see.

Nonetheless, as a nation, we're to be commended for FINALLY recognizing a civil right, instead of succumbing to homophobia. Is there any doubt, gay marriage is next?

excon

Sigh...

The rhetoric has gotten way out of hand... on everything. All year it was "Tea Party racism." Now it's the hatred of gays runs that deep? Bullsh*t, Americans are by and large past racism and we don't hate gays. Stop fueling these unnecessary fires.

Our military will deal with this the way they deal with anything else, with honor.