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Or just an intolerant, racist pig? While campaigning yesterday Harry Reid said, "I don't know how anyone of Hispanic heritage could be a Republican, okay. Do I need to say more?"
This is the same guy that said Obama didn't have a "negro dialect." I'm going with Reid's an intolerant, racist pig.
We have seen many such attitudes, my father once told me your job determines how you vote, meaning that because I am a professional, I must be a conservative and vote conservative. That means that no person of intelligence and education could be a liberal.
It is not racist to say that the underdog, in this case hispanics, will vote liberal. They will vote for the person who will advance their cause just like anyoneelse. So what he is in fact saying is the republicans don't identify with the hispanic cause, and therefore don't have their vote. The clip is too short to know what else he said to justify his point of view
What he's doing is slamming Hispanics who are Republican, of which there are a great many such as Marc Rubio, a Cuban-American running for the Senate in Florida as a Republican.
It's right out of the leftist playbook only it's usually directed at blacks. Conservative blacks aren't really black, you can't be authentically black and be a conservative. Google some Condoleeza Rice cartoons and see what I mean. Same thing for Hispanics now, they can't be authentic if they don't toe the liberal line so such condescension is acceptable.
Don't forget also that Reid told Blago that he didn't want him to appoint a Black Senator to replace Obama .
Do the Republicans identify with the Hispanic cause? Should they have the Hispanic vote?
What is the "hispanic cause " ?
I work with Hispanics from all nationalities. I don't find their opinions monolithic at all.
Hello Steve:
I agree with Harry. Except I'd take out the words "of Hispanic heritage". Republicans like rich white people. That's why they want a tax cut for them, but don't want unemployment for people out of work. Republicans suck.
excon
I don't know how a Mormon can be a Democrat. Absurd statement ? Yup... as absurd as Reid's racist comments about Hispanics.
Fair pay for a fair day's work?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
What does that mean?Quote:
I work with Hispanics from all nationalities.
What percentage of them are Republican?Quote:
I don't find their opinions monolithic at all.
It varies . If I were to generalize like Reid ,I'd say that most of the Cubans were Republican leaning... that many of the Mexicans have socially conservative leanings.Quote:
What percentage of them are Republican?
All the "Hispanics" in my company receive competitive wages . They are all legally here . Many have advanced to supervisory positions ,and many on my staff are already ,or are well on their way to achieving citizenship . I also staff workers from among other nations ,India , the Philippines ,Russians ,Egyptian.. and no doubt other managers have similar ethnic diversity on their staffs.Quote:
Fair pay for a fair day's work?
The problem with the issue of exploitive wages the way I see it is the number of employers who hire illegal laborers . What suprises me is that the Democrats who purport to champion fair wages for American labor would also promote a system that drives American wages down. In my view ,it is the Democrats that have a vested interest in the status quo.exploitation of the immigrants . That I believe is the message that Reid was really alluding to. They want to create another dependent class to the Democrat machine.
What's this, Tom, the slave owners 150 years on theory? I agree there is a inconsistenancy which says look after these people but allow them to be exploited, but taking that to we want to create an underclass for political purposes, hey, haven't you noticed? They don't need hispanics for that, they already have a large pool of blacks and other disadvantaged to choose fromQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So they should be mostly Republican, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
There you go! It's not the illegal immigrants; it's the farmers and restaurant owners and fast-food places that hire them. If there is no work to do and money to be made, the illegals wouldn't come here. They come to this country like moths to flames. Blow out the candles, and the moths go elsewhere or "stay home" (in a corner somewhere).Quote:
The problem with the issue of exploitive wages the way I see it is the number of employers who hire illegal laborers .
But then who will pick the lettuce and clean the motel toilets (ever see what lodgers leave in bathrooms?) and wash the diners' dishes in a corner of the hot kitchen and make the sandwiches?
Quote:
But then who will pick the lettuce and clean the motel toilets (ever see what lodgers leave in bathrooms?) and wash the diners' dishes in a corner of the hot kitchen and make the sandwiches?
I don't know why this should be a problem here. Last year I vacationed in Quebec City and all the labor being performed there was by young Canadian workers. They did not need a large illegal labor pool to exploit .
Look up Cesar Chavez's efforts to organize migrant workers. He was very critical of the influx of illegal immigrants because it devalued the workers he was organizing . The presence of the illegal work force in the end exploits all labor in this country.
But then again. Despite their bleating ,the Dems really don't care about workers in this country. If they did they would be doing the real steps necessary for job creation.
That is exactly what I mean.Quote:
What's this, Tom, the slave owners 150 years on theory? I agree there is a inconsistenancy which says look after these people but allow them to be exploited, but taking that to we want to create an underclass for political purposes
I agree with tom, what's the "Hispanic cause?" I'd go further and ask why there has to be any racial cause? I thought race didn't matter, so why would there be a "Hispanic cause?" Why is there a Congressional Black Caucus? Why is everyone self-segregating?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And FYI (which I've repeated here many times), I'm a minority white in a Hispanic community and have been most of my life. My Hispanic friends and neighbors are no different than me, we love family, friends, the Dallas Cowboys and hard work... just like the rest of the millions of Hispanic Texans, one of the most conservative states in the nation. So what's your point?
From what I hear Dingy Harry modified his quote to agree with you, he doesn't know how anyone can be a Republican either. In the next breath I'm sure he embraced diversity and tolerance and decried the lack of bipartisanship in politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Steve
P.S. by the way, we get this intolerable columnist 3 times a week named Leonard Pitts Jr and it hit me today that he sounds just like you. Do you ghost write for him?
Oh, goody! Then there is every confidence these jobs will be taken up by white teens and young adults once we get rid of the illegals.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Young American unemployment rate is 20%+. If they don't take the jobs ;shame on them . I did plenty of those jobs in my time.
If you've kept up with how U.S. society and attitudes are going, especially among those under 35, no, they will not spend the day picking lettuce in Arizona and cleaning hotel/motel rooms and washing dishes in the corner of a hot restaurant kitchen. They're not even willing to work in fast food any longer or shelve books in public libraries. They want desk jobs and "retail."Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Then perhaps they shouldn't be on the public dole.
What are you arguing for ? The exploitation of manual labor. The only way to do those jobs at the labor price is to bring in a bunch of illegals and have employers violate the labor laws.
Once that is stopped then the wages will increase to a "fair wage " ,and I gurarantee there are plenty of people in this country legally here willing to do those jobs for a "fair wage" .
Who's on the public dole? We're talking about illegals doing the dirty grunt work that young whites refuse to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I'm not arguing for that. I'm against the farmers, etc. who exploit the illegals and pay them under the table. If they didn't do that, the problem would go away.Quote:
What are you arguing for ? The exploitation of manual labor. The only way to do those jobs at the labor price is to bring in a bunch of illegals and have employers violate the labor laws.
I'm not sure what group of "plenty of people" you are talking about who will do even dirty drudge jobs for a "fair wage" (like, how much per hour?) $10? $15? $20?Quote:
Once that is stopped then the wages will increase to a "fair wage " ,and I gurarantee there are plenty of people in this country legally here willing to do those jobs for a "fair wage" .
And we do need to change the INS.
"young whites "(or any American regardless of color) who refuse to work should not be getting extended unemployment benefits.Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Then perhaps they shouldn't be on the public dole.
Who's on the public dole? We're talking about illegals doing the dirty grunt work that young whites refuse to do.
Part of the problem would go away. The other part is the illegals who come here and dilute the labor pool. This problem extends way beyond your stereotypical description of "lettuce pickers " .It permeates into all labor ;especially construction. Are you telling me that there isn't a willing labor force of Americans who won't do construction jobs ? I know better . The unemployment rate of African-American males is astronomical in places like LA etc. . But what construction jobs are available go to illegals in many cases. Yes ,the employers are exploitive . But if that labor pool was not available to exploit then they would have no choice but the hire willing workers at fair wages.Quote:
Quote:
What are you arguing for ? The exploitation of manual labor. The only way to do those jobs at the labor price is to bring in a bunch of illegals and have employers violate the labor laws.
I'm not arguing for that. I'm against the farmers, etc. who exploit the illegals and pay them under the table. If they didn't do that, the problem would go away.
Quote:
Once that is stopped then the wages will increase to a "fair wage " ,and I gurarantee there are plenty of people in this country legally here willing to do those jobs for a "fair wage" .
I'm not sure what group of "plenty of people" you are talking about who will do even dirty drudge jobs for a "fair wage" (like, how much per hour?) $10? $15? $20?
Which came first, the farmers who needed laborers (because the whites refused to do such awful work) and who hired a few illegals who told their friends back home who then came north to join in the fun or the illegals standing around, shifting from foot to foot, needing work to do, so some farmers took pity on them?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So if the farmers pay a "fair wage" (we still don't know what that is) to nice (white) young people who are willing to pick fruit in Southern orchards and pick lettuce in Southwestern fields and work in construction and lay roofs and clean motel rooms and wash restaurant dishes, the price of lettuce and homes and roofs and motel rooms and restaurant foods will go up. Is that okay with you?
Btw, I picked fruit in orchards as a teen and my son was a gopher to a construction crew when he was in high school. It was hot, hard, sweaty work for not much money.
Absolutely . Prices will still remain competitive or the farmers,business owners etc. will not be in business long. Maybe it would force them to improve efficienies and /or develop new innovations and processes.Quote:
So if the farmers pay a "fair wage" (we still don't know what that is) to nice (white) young people who are willing to pick fruit in Southern orchards and pick lettuce in Southwestern fields and work in construction and lay roofs and clean motel rooms and wash restaurant dishes, the price of lettuce and homes and roofs and motel rooms and restaurant foods will go up. Is that okay with you?
I won't bore you with all the jobs I've done in my time. I began working ,at least on a part time basis , in the 7th grade and have not missed significant time away fromwork since. Never in my life have I felt a job was beneath me... and no... I don't hire a lawn service,snow shoveler ,cook or house keeper .We do all those ourselves . Mowing the lawn ;taking care of the garden shovelling the drive-way are all good exercise.Quote:
Btw, I picked fruit in orchards as a teen and my son was a gopher to a construction crew when he was in high school. It was hot, hard, sweaty work for not much money.
And yes we do know what "fair wages "are thanks to the 'all knowing government' that sets minimum wages. Anything above that is based on a job market that is frankly diuted thanks to the availability of an exploitable labor group.
I'm sure we could match each other, dirty job with dirty job. Unfortunately, young people today don't want these kinds of jobs. Many of them didn't even have to help with chores around the house (for free, much less for money) when they were growing up. My doctor and I were chatting a bit Monday that kids today don't even understand how to look for undone work to do when they are temporarily idle.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Yeah I know. Like I said ,remove them from a life of dependency and they will be in for a rude awakening .
In a market that wasn't distorted ,the laborer would become more valuable because they perform needed services that others don't want to do. In many cases that is true. The plumber and electrician working on their own commands premium prices for their services. But when a construction company can pick from an illegal pool ,diluting the pool of available electrican /plumbers then the domestic electrician /plumber doesn't get the true value for their work.
So the illegals are professionals in various industries -- electricians and plumbers and engineers? Interesting. My observation was that the owner of the company who did our roof is white and sat in the shade with his lemonade while his Mexican workers were on the roof in the hot sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Aren't those white business/company owners who are outsourcing jobs to India and China and South America and depriving U.S. citizens of jobs?
No ,There is no obligation to operate a business inside the US borders... and trust me... it isn't labor costs that drive business away anyway ;it's poor government policies . If government policies drive businesses away it is not the business persons fault if they relocate.
Is it now your position that it is OK to outsource business if you operate inside the borders and import illegal labor ?
Getting back to Reid . Reid is one of these people who want Mexicans to pick his veggies ,clean his house ,mow his lawn ,wipe his butt... but don't move into his neighborhood.
This is a guy who deliberately mocked the crowd of citizens visiting the Capitol Building and their odor.
Hopefully after November he won't have to suffer DC visitor's body odor anymore .
Of course not. The hue and cry is that the nasty illegal immigrants who work cheap are taking jobs away from the whites. But white business owners are also taking jobs away from U.S. people and giving them to people in other countries who work cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So let's go after those farmers and business owners and also change the government regs that allow them to get away with this.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I gather, since you're IN to telling it like it is, that you support Sharron Angle, who is FOR the repeal of Social Security and Medicare, AGAINST abortion EVEN when the pregnancy is due to incest or rape, FOR using her "second amendment remedies" if she DOESN'T win, thinks fluoride in the water is a "communist plot to undermine western democracy" and is just your ordinary, all around, right wing kook.
And, you want her to become a US Senator. Come on, tom. Tell it like it is.
excon
Ex what did you call it on the other thred ? A red herring ?
I voted for McCain although there were many issues about which I disagree with him .He was the 'lesser of the evils' as the saying goes.
If I had a say in the Nevada primary Angle would not have been my first choice. But compared to BO Reid ,yes she is the better choice.
If you don't mind me redirecting my thread for a moment, the left has a couple of more new ways to engage in thoughtful debate this election season. First, from Amorphia Apparel:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/...2b641aed08.jpg
And my favorite, from former DNC official Erica Payne's new group, the Agenda Project:
Their first "intelligent" foray into "advancing rational, effective ideas in the public debate" is... well, Askmehelpdesk won't even let me print it. You can see it here (Content warning).Quote:
The Agenda Project's goal is to build a powerful, intelligent, well-connected political movement capable of identifying and advancing rational, effective ideas in the public debate and in so doing ensure our country's enduring success.
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Thanks for reminding me that this is YOUR thread. I thought it was toms. Oh, well.
So, no, I don't mind you redirecting your own thread. We really need to learn about those kooky left wingers... To be fair, though, I thought our readers would like to be reminded of WHO you support for Harry Reids seat, and what SHE believes in...
Now, if I was judging, and I AM. I'd say the left wingers are ANGRY. I'd say your candidate is NUTS - absolutely BONKERS - yet, she's your gal. Dude!
excon
Um, I think that 'red herring' has already been addressed. I never wanted Angle and thank God I don't live in Nevada, but it doesn't take much to be a better option than Harry Reid.
I have a different interpretation then you do though (and besides, I thought it was those "tea baggers" that were angry), the left is desperate, snooty (or is it snotty) and just plain mean. I don't like snooty, snotty, mean people that think "**** tea" is 'rational' debate... now THAT'S bonkers.
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