Ask Me Help Desk - Drug war - last post. If you don't get it NOW, you NEVER will.

Drug war - last post. If you don't get it NOW, you NEVER will.

Hello drug warriors:

I've heard you wingers say they're not busting pot smokers any more - but you lie. Here's a video of what's being done to people in YOUR NAME, in the war on pot.

WARNING - It's horrifying. Nonetheless, I'd urge you to watch it, and to send it to the drug warriors in your life. This is the blunt result of all the war imagery and militaristic rhetoric politicians have been spewing for the last 30 years - cops dressed like soldiers, barreling through the front door in the middle of the night, slaughtering the family pet, filling the house with bullets in the presence of children, then having the audacity to charge the parents with endangering their own kid. There are 100-150 of these raids every day in America, the vast, vast majority like this one, to serve a warrant for a consensual crime.

They found a small amount of marijuana, enough for a misdemeanor charge. The parents were then charged with child endangerment.

Let me see if I understand this... Smoking pot = child endangerment. Storming a home with guns blazing, killing the family pet as a child looks on = necessary police procedures to ensure everyone's safety.

Just so we're clear.

excon

Good for them... what good parent would teach their kid its OK to get stoned instead of dealing with reality... and I feel the very same about any parent that gives their kid Jack Daniels... or any other form of alcohol.

Heck... just give them heroin... skip the games.

I suppose driving while stoned is better than driving while drunk by the same logic those who retreat to drugs to escape reality... the same as drunks retreat to alcohol.

Truly horrifying

Hello smoothy:

Like I said, you'll never get it.

excon

Thanks for posting that as a Youtube link. The NORML rep interviewing the police spokesman about that incident was enlightening as well. Do you have an address for the potsmoker's attorney? In Tennessee where I grew up shooting a man's dog was grounds for self-defense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello smoothy:

Like I said, you'll never get it.

excon

So... Little Jack Daniels and Vodka bottles for kindergarteners... right next to the Doobies, crack and Meth? Why stop with POT... how about Heroin for the masses.

Hello again, smoothy:

Like all drug warriors, you make up stuff. This is a pot smoker. The rest is a figment of your imagination... In fact, it sounds like you been smoking something.

excon

It's a good thing the cops are being held accountable more and more by video evidence, huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

It's a good thing the cops are being held accountable more and more by video evidence, huh?

Hello Steve:

It is. But, this is their own video and they're not being help accountable for ANYTHING except doing a marvelous job. It's YOU, Mr. John Q. Citizen, who I hope will hold them accountable.

You're a dog lover. What did you think about that?

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Like all drug warriors, you make up stuff. This is a pot smoker. The rest is a figment of your imagination... In fact, it sounds like you been smoking something

That's not exactly true.

Quote:

In 2003, Whitworth pleaded guilty to conspiracy to distribute cocaine and marijuana in federal court and was ordered to serve 15 months in federal prison, according to court documents.

Quote:

Whitworth had a prior arrest for suspicion of possession of marijuana and manufacturing a controlled substance. One of the informants told police he or she had seen the marijuana in Whitworth’s home within 10 days of the warrant’s approval.

Columbia police Detective Ronald Hall Jr. also conducted a trash grab at Whitworth’s home on Jan. 27. He found baggies containing narcotic residue and items of drug paraphernalia with residue on them, according to the warrant.

So when SWAT entered the home, investigators believed Whitworth was in possession of a large amount of marijuana and was considered a distributor. SWAT is used when executing warrants on distributors because they often have a history with firearms.

I'm not defending this raid, but he doesn't appear to be just a pot smoker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I'm not defending this raid, but he doesn't appear to be just a pot smoker.

Hello again, Steve:

I'm not surprised there was more to the story... Good work. However, he has NO VIOLENCE in his past. Even IF he's a pot DEALER, I stand by my outrage.

excon

PS> Cops call pot "narcotics". It's all the same to them. They think like smoothy. They think they're ridding the world of evil. I guess if you think like that, shooting a dog is a small price to pay.

It appears the citizens of Columbia, MO and the local press are trying to hold them accountable. I do have a piece of advice though, if a guy doesn't want to risk his family and dog he shouldn't get involved in illegal distribution.

P.S. I don't buy that the cops don't know the difference between pot and narcotics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

P.S. I don't buy that the cops don't know the difference between pot and narcotics.

Hello again, Steve:

Oh, they KNOW the difference. They just don't articulate the difference, as they didn't here. If they thought they found cocaine residue on January 27, THAT is what they would have been looking for on Feb 11.

This from the article you linked me to:

"So when SWAT entered the home, investigators believed Whitworth was in possession of a large amount of marijuana and was considered a distributor. SWAT is used when executing warrants on distributors because they often have a history with firearms."

Plus, I don't know know how much YOU know about the pot business, Steve, but I don't think even YOU believe that pot dealers are armed and dangerous.

I stand by my OUTRAGE.

excon

I'm not telling you not to stand by your outrage, but the narcotics bit was an aside to the story. I never said the cops were looking for anything but what was on the warrant (what they were tipped to). I'm just saying the guy is no angel.

P.S. I live in the Texas panhandle, everyone is armed.

Quote:

Let me see if I understand this... Smoking pot = child endangerment.

What do you call it ? An ounce of prevention ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

What do you call it ? an ounce of prevention ?

Hello tom:

I'd call it LESS dangerous than throwing back a six pack in front of your kids.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Like all drug warriors, you make up stuff. This is a pot smoker. The rest is a figment of your imagination... In fact, it sounds like you been smoking something.

excon

Ummmm POT smokers ARE Drug Users contrary to what the stoner brain might think. THC is a drug... those who use it ARE drug users.

Really ? What is the child exposed to ? Second hand foam ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello tom:

I'd call it LESS dangerous than throwing back a six pack in front of your kids.

excon

Dead is dead... Hope its one of YOUR kids or siblings (or any POT supporters) that are killed by a stoner IF it ever gets legalized. Because ANYONE to dies as the result of a stoners addiction is Someone's kid.

But then... stoners don't believe it effects them in any way.

Would serve you right. Stoners are NOT in anywhere near full control of their facilities when they have it in their system... they WILL drive... and they WILL kill people just like any drunk does.

Smoothy do you drink coffee or any drink with caffeine in it? If so then you are a drug user.

I am sitting here bawling my eyes out. This is outrageous. So the cops couldn't have picked him up in a more civil manner. Did you see that child cowering in the hallway Smooty? Do you think that it justice? That is horror.

I know I am going to get chewed apart for this, but I would much rather have my child in a house with someone who smoked a joint, than in a house where cops came in firing guns and killing our family pet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

really ? what is the child exposed to ? second hand foam ?

Hello again, tom:

Tobacco kills. Marijuana doesn't. Consequently, second hand tobacco smoke kills. Second hand marijuana smoke doesn't. It doesn't even make you high.

Clearly, you're one of the people who don't get it and NEVER will. You support the gestapo tactics shown in the video. You should be ashamed..

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

I am sitting here bawling my eyes out. This is outrageous. So the cops couldn't have picked him up in a more civil manner. Did you see that child cowering in the hallway Smooty? Do you think that it justice? That is horror.

I know I am going to get chewed apart for this, but I would much rather have my child in a house with someone who smoked a joint, than in a house where cops came in firing guns and killing our family pet.

I am with you on that Aurora!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

really ? what is the child exposed to ? second hand foam ?

Umm maybe a drunk parent?

What knocks me for a loop about the video is they went in with a shoot to kill attitude and that is completely wrong. Now in serving a warrant they never know what they will find or what resitance will be met with they do need to be ready for defense. But I can't think of any reason the dog had to be killed let alone with 4 bullets. Most police carry pepper spray and the dog could have been subdued with it if aggressive. The warrant wasn't for that amount of force shown. Im sure they had a file and it would have mentioned it somewhere what the perps makeup was. Or if he was a gang member or whatnot. And their choice to not shield the children was just flat out wrong too.

What time in the morning was this? They knocked on the door and called about for what seems to be less than 3 seconds, before busting down the door. Do they give you time to answer the door?

What kind of dog was it? A pit? A doberman? A lab? From the sound of the initial barking and the fact that the dog was probably in the bedroom, I'm guessing this was not a trained guard dog, probably like my lab mix and border collie.

I can't get past hearing the dog's warning barks, shots fired, then hearing the dog yelping then fall silent!!

G&P

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom:

Tobacco kills. Marijuana doesn't. Consequently, second hand tobacco smoke kills. Second hand marijuana smoke doesn't. It doesn't even make you high.

Clearly, you're one of the people who don't get it and NEVER will. You support the gestapo tactics shown in the video. You should be ashamed..

excon

Off the bat I thought shooting the dogs was excessive. Beyond that ;this is just a snapshot in time. You don't know what evidence was submitted to the judge for the warrant . Just because they did not find his supply there doesn't mean he wasn't a dealer . Perhaps he had it in a storage rental ;who knows? Follow the case and let me know the outcome.

As far as the tactics ? Beyond shooting the dogs (which cal points out there were alternatives for neutralizing them )... I agree with the use of overwhelming force . That saves officers lives.

I will not get into the silly argument that, because alcohol and tobacco are legal ,that all drugs should be . It is clear that there is a consensus for the status quo. Even the President and Gil Kerlikowske(who I believe you praised on one of these discussions ) said the other day they don't support legalization .

Quote:

Originally Posted by spitvenom

Smoothy do you drink coffee or any drink with caffeine in it? If so then you are a drug user.

I suppose the Pot heads would like to see the age of Statutory rape lowered to 12 years old... under the pretext... it would be concensual? If the BOTH wanted it... hell why stop there... some people are just begging to be killed... some women just begging to be taught a lesson... and heck... why have laws at all, then nobody will be in jail for anything and the world will be a wonderful place... yeah right! That's every bit as good an idea as making Pot legal to druggies, meaning it isn't.

If Pot should be legalized then alcohol laws should be repealled too. After all, if an 11 year old wants to get stupid drunk... what right does anyone have to stop them... or if gradeschool kids want to smoke... repeal the law that prevents selling tobacco to minors... just sell the smokes to 6 year olds.

After all, "Nobody" gets hurt there either... like illegal drugs never hurt anyone... pot included.

Better take a look at narcotrafficers... what they do etc...

I've seen dozens if not tens of dozens of stoners (pot heads, whatever term you wish to use)over the years... I am 49 not 19. And there wasn't a regular user you could NOT spot across the room. And when they opened their mouth and talked... it was clear they were users.

And Incidentally... exactly WHERE is caffine regulated as a drug. Not in the USA... Not in Europe... where do they control sale of caffine containing products to minors? As of today... a 3 year old could walk into any store and buy any soft drink they sell. Even "Jolt" brand soda. Or Red Bull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

I suppose the Pot heads would like to see the age of Statutory rape lowered to 12 years old....

Hello again, smoothy:

Why stop there? How come you don't accuse pot heads of advocating man/dog marriage while you're at it?

You're silly.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Why stop there? How come you don't accuse pot heads of advocating man/dog marriage while you're at it?

You're silly.

excon

What makes Pot heads special... How about Pedophiles... Crackheads, Meth heads... Rapists... wife beaters... Human trafficers... Prostitution... shouldn't their special vice be made legal too?

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

Ignorance can be cured, but you can't fix stupid. - Ron White

nuff said

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

What kind of dog was it? A pit?

My post #10 leads you to a series of local stories for details. There were 2 dogs, a Corgi which was injured in the paw incidentally it appears, the other was a pit bull the officers claim was aggressive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

What makes Pot heads special.....How about Pedophiles....Crackheads, Meth heads.....Rapists....wife beaters....Human trafficers...Prostitution....shouldn't their special vice be made legal too?

Hello again, smoothy:

Those are good questions. I'll do my best to answer you.

Nothing makes pot heads special. Nobody said it did. You made it up. You should stop doing that, because when you do, our arguments devolve into "yes you did - no I didn't" FOURTH grade stupid crap, that I've told you repeatedly, I won't participate in.

You're a bit confused, however. Let me help to the degree that I can. Amongst your list of offenses above, there are crimes WITH a victim, and crimes WITHOUT a victim. I understand that you're UNABLE to tell the difference and CAN'T make that distinction.. You refer to all of them as vices, so I'm not going to try to educate you. Suffice to say, the bulk of the readers of this post, CAN make that distinction.

I will say that prostitution absolutely should be legal.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Those are good questions. I'll do my best to answer you.

Nothing makes pot heads special. Nobody said it did. You made it up. You should stop doing that, because when you do, our arguments devolve into "yes you did - no I didn't" FOURTH grade stupid crap, that I've told you repeatedly, I won't participate in.

You're a bit confused, however. Lemme help to the degree that I can. Amongst your list of offenses above, there are crimes WITH a victim, and crimes WITHOUT a victim. I understand that you're UNABLE to tell the difference and CAN'T make that distinction.. You refer to all of them as vices, so I'm not going to try to educate you. Suffice to say, the bulk of the readers of this post, CAN make that distinction.

I will say that prostitution absolutely should be legal.

excon

There ARE victims with any illegal drug... and they are illegal for good reason... stoners plastering the internet with fabricated stories changes nothing... they are despirate to get their "Fix" just like any Heroin addict is... degree of addiction doesn't matter.

Talk to any law enforcement person... Talk about the traffic deaths caused by people that are high, other crimes committed by people under the influence, Crimes and deaths cause by drug trafficers which is NOT insignificant. Just look towards Mexico right now. THen look at the crimes THAT finances...

THere are plenty of victims with any illegal drug... far more than there are with even legal ones... and nobody claims abuse of legal drugs is victim free either.

With every crime there is a victim(s)... it may not appear to be to the self centered criminal or drug addict... but its clear to everyone else.

And Prostitution is no exception... Trafficing of Humans in the Sex trade is not unheard of even here in the USA... it may not get front page news... but it happens all over the country. Talk to some cops... they will tell you, hell if you know a prostitue ask them... many know about it even if they know nothing else. And drugs are usually directly involved as well.

Anyone who resorts to drugs or alcohol to drown out reality... is doing no favors to anyone. And are making nothing better through abusing their bodies and funding other criminals.

Pot, Heroin, Crack, Crank, black market OxyCodone, doesn't matter which drug... they all make criminals rich.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothy

What makes Pot heads special.....How about Pedophiles....Crackheads, Meth heads.....Rapists....wife beaters....Human trafficers...Prostitution....shouldn't their special vice be made legal too?

Are you saying this with a straight face?
Do you drink? I suppose that you want it to be legal to drink and drive? After all if you run out of booze how else are you supposed to get it? I mean a quick drive to the liquor store with your child in the car, no biggie right?

Because with the broad stroke you are painting "pot heads" with, all drinkers must be raging alcoholics who want to drink and drive.

Smoothy, I have some questions for you.

How many of those "crime victims" are victims of the law instead of the act?

Why is M.A.D.D. doing such booming business if legal drugs have so many fewer victims?

Why does marijuana come from Mexico when it grows wild here?

Does Australia (where sex work is legal) have the same human trafficking and pimp problems the U.S. does? Maybe 'clete could help with that one.

Did Joe, Jack, and Teddy Kennedy get included in your mental "make criminals rich" statement since their fortune came from bootlegging?

SAFER - Alcohol vs. Marijuana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catsmine

Smoothy, I have some questions for you.

How many of those "crime victims" are victims of the law instead of the act?

Why is M.A.D.D. doing such booming business if legal drugs have so many fewer victims?

Why does marijuana come from Mexico when it grows wild here?

Does Australia (where sex work is legal) have the same human trafficking and pimp problems the U.S. does? Maybe 'clete could help with that one.

Did Joe, Jack, and Teddy Kennedy get included in your mental "make criminals rich" statement since their fortune came from bootlegging?

I have no more sympathy for drunks than I do for drug users...

How many Men are sitting in jhail for sleeping with their girlfriends who happened to be 16 or younger?

All the Kennedys were corrupt... don't even get me started there. Not ONE of them were saints or earned any opf their money they inherited from grandadies illegal booze running.

Can't comment on Austrailas human trafficking problem... its only on the other side of the world and we in the USA we don't get that much news about Australia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurora_Bell

Are you saying this with a straight face?
Do you drink? I suppose that you want it to be legal to drink and drive? After all if you run out of booze how else are you supposed to get it? I mean a quick drive to the liquor store with your child in the car, no biggie right?

Because with the broad stroke you are painting "pot heads" with, all drinkers must be raging alcoholics who want to drink and drive.

I'm not the one calling for illegal activities to be made legal, booze or drugs.

Read back... I have no more sympathy for an alcoholic that's off the wagon than I do for any drug user that's using.

If you got a problem... deal with it... legalizing it isn't going to help anything. Except making it easier to make it worse.

I did not say I was a user at all. All I said that was a pretty broad brush, and for you to say you can spot a user in a crowd, well is just silly. I'm not for legalizing it, I'm for de criminalizing it.