No ;I'm not talking about the attempted bomber Faisal Shahzad . He successfully deployed a VBIED in the middle of Manhattan exactly where he planned to detonate it. Like with the Christmas underpants bomber attempt,it was just plain luck ,and the vigilance of alert civilians that the detonation failed.
I can speculate that our attacks on training camps have reduced the jihadist's ability to competently train their operatives. But it has not prevented them from making the attempts.

What I mean by the OP header is the stupid speculations I've read in the past couple days as to who the attacker might be.

Take as an example this idiot Robert Dreyfuss from the Nation who said
“it seems far more likely to me that the perpetrator of the bungled Times Square bomb plot was either a lone nut job or a member of some squirrely branch of the Tea Party, anti-government far right.”.
A Connecticut Taliban in Bloomberg's Court? | The Nation

Or this fine bit of journalism by Jason Levin of Election Ink.

“Anonymous sources have reported that a suspect is currently being questioned in the Bridgeport / New Haven CT area. The suspect is a middle age white male, has a history of strong political views, and considers himself a Tea Party activist. An arrest is expected within days. In a strange twist, the suspect worked in the past as an informant with law enforcement agencies.”
Election Ink - Tea Party Movement possibly involved in Times Square SUV bomb

Even Mayor Bloomberg got into the act saying that the bomber could be someone upset over the Health Care bill that was passed. He told Katie Couric
“If I had to guess 25 cents, this would be exactly that. Homegrown, or maybe a mentally deranged person, or somebody with a political agenda that doesn't like the health care bill or something. It could be anything.”


Hello!! NY City has been a constant target of the jihadists movement for 20 years or more . Oh wait ,let me guess . It couldn't be Muslim terrorists ;it must be Yankee haters. Yeah that's the ticket.
Hard to defeat an enemy you refuse to name.

Those darn tea-baggers brought it on themselves with all that violence and incitement. Oh wait, those were immigration protesters.

I do have to point out the "tea-baggers," as even Obama calls them now, are the named enemy.

Bloomberg was on the radio warning us NYers against backlash even though there is absolutely no indication that there was a threat of it.

I emailed this OP to some friends and got back this reply :

The suspect is a middle age white male, has a history of strong political views
The best guess I’ve heard was Bill Ayers. He has a history of making and detonating bombs in America, is white and middle aged.

Hello tom:

Here's what right winger Jonah Goldberg has to say. He's thrilled that the man arrested is a proper foreign-born Muslim dude, and not a God-fearing white Christian. He admits as much:

"When the Times Square story first broke there was a part of me that said, "Man, I hope it's not some white militia nutjob." When I saw the news this morning that it was a Pakistani, the same small part of me was relieved."

A normal human might be relieved that the person responsible for the attempted bombing is in custody. This winger is just relieved that his prejudices against Muslims were reinforced.

excon

You mean like the backlash in NYC after 9/11? You mean there wasn't one?

He should be warning New Yorkers against traveling to AZ shouldn't he?

Ex I do not represent Goldberg's thoughts nor he mine.

This is what I think . I was in Time Square the week before watching a play on Broadway ,and my daughter frequently goes into town with her friends. I take attempts to harm me and my family personally.

A Pakistani group took credit for the attack before the arrest . The bomber is a Pakistani . Now I hear someone else was detained in Karachi.

The jihadists have told us in unambiguous terms their intent to attack and kill us .They have repeatedly attacked and attempted attacks inside NYC. (there is an irony in that itself in that NYC is a liberal bastion of "tolerence " for their view of the world ) .

I have heard no such thoughts from tea partiers exercising their right to peacefully demonstrate against their government's policies and actions. They don't threaten to kill those who don't adhere to their views.

I take both groups at their word.

MSNBC's Contessa Brewer admitted her frustration that the Times Square bomber turned out to be a Muslim.

"I get frustrated...There was part of me that was hoping this was not going to be anybody with ties to any kind of Islamic country."

And in a supreme bit of irony she added, "...There are a lot of people who want to use terrorist intent to justify writing off people who believe in a certain way or come from certain countries or whose skin color is a certain way. I mean they use it as justification for really outdated bigotry."

Fortunately no one in the media (or running our government) ever "use terrorist intent to justify writing off people who believe in a certain way," etc.

Ex, that's a fine misrepresentation of what Goldberg said. Unfortunately for you I had already read his post in context. What he was saying, after admitting he felt some sense of relief it wasn't a "tea-bagger" as our president now calls them, was that his conclusion was at least justified by empirical evidence as opposed to the jerking knees and true hopes of liberals wishing it were a "tea-bagger."

His point is while the left's bullying us into silence over the alleged threat we pose is "dangerous because it causes the country to look for terrorists where they aren’t while telling them not to look for them where they are."

He's right, and instead of commending him for his honesty you're trying to do just that, tell people here where to look for the bad guys where they aren't instead of where they are.

Speech to be fair they called themselves teabaggers first. Then when someone pointed out what a teabagger was then they got offended. Grandma worked a long time on that tea bagging for Jesus sign Protestors Now Teabagging for Jesus [PIC]

But anyway I knew it wasn't a white person from the start. Liberals are to lazy to do something like this. And the tea baggers are all old people.

Just don't jump onto the ball field in Philly or you are in for the shock of your life.

How crazy was that Tom, have you seen the video? But it didn't look so bad and he got right up. I hate when people run onto the field. Remember a few years ago when the Father and Son at the white sox game ran onto the field and beat up the first base coach?

Been a little rougher than usual at the games in Philly, eh? At least no one was intentionally puked on were they?

Speech that guy was from Jersey who puked on the off duty cop and his family. I expect this at Eagles games but not at the Phillies. It is always the herbs from the suburbs that do this stuff.

Pointing the blame in the wrong direction has been the SOP for the brain dead media for a long time.

I was listening to the radio when the news first broke that Kennedy had been shot in Dallas.

What was the first thing the news morons did? They quickly pointed out that Dallas is a conservative town and that the conservative view point was responsible for this terrible act.

Of course, when the actual shooter was caught, they couldn't sell that lie, because I don't ever remember anyone calling Oswald a conservative.

But these ill conceived purveyors of public pablum have seared consciences and hope we have short memories.

Thank God for Fox news and the internet where we can actually get more than one opinion on any given subject.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Hello !!! NY City has been a constant target of the jihadists movement for 20 years or more . Oh wait ,let me guess . It couldn't be Muslim terrorists ;it must be Yankee haters. yeah that's the ticket.
Hard to defeat an enemy you refuse to name.

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This is where being politically correct finally gets you, you can use the word Muslim, how do you know he was a muslim? The Pakistani's tell you they did it and you don't believe them because it's racist to accuse the Pakistani's.

We have it seems a pecular learning difficulty. Pakistani's have been implicated in many terror attacks. There is a terrorist organisation in Pakistan bombing the crap out of their own people. I think we should jump to conclusions and expect the bomber to come from Pakistan

Considering the planners of both the WTC attack 1993 and 9-11 were both Pakis you would think our guard would be up.

This attack explodes some myths for sure. I already dissected the racist white guy upset with Obamacare myth.

There is another one that says Muslim immigrants once integrated do not become violent jihadist threats. The only signal Shahzad sent was his travels to Pakistan. But identifying him in that manner would've been profiling .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello tom:

Here's what right winger Jonah Goldberg has to say. He's thrilled that the man arrested is a proper foreign-born Muslim dude, and not a God-fearing white Christian. He admits as much:

"When the Times Square story first broke there was a part of me that said, "Man, I hope it's not some white militia nutjob." When I saw the news this morning that it was a Pakistani, the same small part of me was relieved."

A normal human might be relieved that the person responsible for the attempted bombing is in custody. This winger is just relieved that his prejudices against Muslims were reinforced.

excon

---

If we are really honest with ourselves, we see ourselves as belonging to certain groups: by race, religion, gender, age, political beliefs etc...
Of course the liberals act this way though they try not to admit it
That being said; The place I work at is very diverse. When this story broke and before the surveillance video came out, a black co-worker had no problem saying," man, I hope they aren't black." The same sentiment that Goldberg has from the perspective of a white male. The same perspective I have as an American Asian. We would be mortified if it was a member of a group we identify with. When Tiller was killed there was an immediate repudiation by plenty of anti-abortion groups.

Where are the Muslim and or Pakistani groups repudiating this man's attempts?





G&P





G&P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The only signal Shahzad sent was his travels to Pakistan. But identifying him in that manner would've been profiling .

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Hello again, tom:

You can't tell the difference between behavioral profiling and racial profiling... It figures.

excon

But if a cop asks for the id.of Mexican waiting on the corner to be picked up for work in Arizona that isn't behavioral profiling but racial ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

But if a cop asks for the id.of Mexican waiting on the corner to be picked up for work in Arizona that isn't behavioral profiling but racial ?

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Hello again, tom:

You can't tell the difference between behavioral profiling and racial profiling... It figures.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Considering the planners of both the WTC attack 1993 and 9-11 were both Pakis you would think our guard would be up.

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Thinking of doing a little racial profiling there Tom? I agree with you we have seen too many of these events committed by Paki's, now I know every Paki isn't a terrorist but for the good of other people it is time for the travel of these people to be restricted and travel to Pakistan restricted. It needs to have the same status as North Korea. Perhaps then the Pakistan government will take the threat seriously and deal with their own. The Paki's and others from that region are like a plague of locusts, they get jobs and send money home, do they build houses where they live? No, they build them in Pakistan and get a relative to house sit. They don't add to the nation they live in. They are opportunists.

The fellow who committed these attacks in NY clearly had a long term plan and there was a need to profile him to find him earlier. Leaving the country shortly after gaining citizenship should have been a red flag but who would monitor such events. So let's all stop being so mamby pamby about rights and start enforcing the right to life, the only basic right we have

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paraclete

So let's all stop being so mamby pamby about rights and start enforcing the right to life, the only basic right we have

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Hello again, tom: I mean clete:

You can't tell the difference between behavioral profiling and racial profiling... It figures.

excon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

You can't tell the difference between behavioral profiling and racial profiling... It figures.

excon

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It's fairly obvious the nutjobs at MSNBC and in D.C. can't.

Yeah, they should not be pre-profiling. Telling us that it may be a tea party member or some right winger, before they even had the facts on hand. Where is there apology for profiling?


G&P

The Obama law enforcement approach in action:

They didn't stop a VBIED from being deployed . It was luck that it wasn't detonated . They successfully used VIN # to trace the van and eventually identify Faisal Shahzad. After that the playbook switched to a Keystone Cops skit.
An FBI team trailing Shahzad and lost contact with him for hours before “he drove to John F. Kennedy airport and boarded a plane to Dubai”.

Quote:

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The intelligence team did not know Faisal Shahzad, an American of Pakistani descent, was planning to fly abroad until a final passenger list was sent to officials at the Customs and Border Protection agency minutes before the Emirates flight EK202 was due to take off, according to the New York Times.

Compounding the FBI team’s error, ground staff at Emirates did not act act on an electronic message sent to all airlines at midday on Monday – more than eight hours before Mr Shahzad boarded his plane – notifying them that his name had been added to the no-fly list, officials said.

---

FBI 'lost' Times Square suspect Faisal Shahzad before flight - Times Online
The airplane was already on the runway about to take off for Dubai before it was called back.

But have no fear ! Eric Holder had everything under control .
“I was never in any fear that we were in danger of losing him”
(snicker.....“the System worked.” )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, tom: I mean clete:

You can't tell the difference between behavioral profiling and racial profiling... It figures.

excon

---

Okay Ex how's this for behavioral profiling.

Originating from Pakistan
A dual citizenship
Acquiring assets for cash
Buying a one way ticket to Pakistan
Buying quantities of explosive substances
Being on a suspect list

Now what I see is this is all a little late, it was good luck that the bomb didn't go off not competence of law enforcement. The system didn't work. This fellow was under the radar until after his attempt failed

Now if certain other behaviours had been taken into account

A married man travelling alone
A person making trips to and from Pakistan

But how do you do that

No, If you just focused on the obvious, this is a Muslim, this is a Pakistani, this is a traveller he might have been picked up, you have to face it racial profiling or not, Pakistani's are a higher risk than certain others and it becomes nationality profiling

The blame game begins:

Obama administration says Emirates Airlines Dropped the Ball; 9/11 Commission Vice-Chair Says U.S. Govt Is Dropping the Ball - Political Punch

Interesting to note:

Quote:

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Hamilton reminds ABC News that “the 9/11 commission recommended that you had to have biometric evidence, documentarian evidence of people coming in and exiting” the country. “

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Is biometric evidence another term for profiling? Oh my.


Now the counterpoint:


Emirates says fully complies with U.S. air procedures | Reuters

Quote:

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Prior to the change they were required to do the check within 24 hours, a loophole that may have enabled Shahzad to board an Emirates flight late on Monday.

"Emirates is in full compliance with all passenger check-in procedures in the U.S. and works closely with both the Transport Security Administration and the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agencies to update security watch lists on a regular and timely basis," the company said.

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I've heard on the radio since this incident that airlines are now required to check/change the the no-fly list within 2HOURS of a DHS update; not 24 hours. The gap in the Shazad case was about 7 hours. Who knows, who is spinning the facts in order to look good and not look bad.

Maybe they were looking for a right winger for more than 7 hours because of the initial MSM / Bloomberg ideas?



G&P

Don't any of these maroons in the someone left the irony on department get that they've been profiling Tea Partiers?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Don't any of these maroons in the someone left the irony on department get that they've been profiling Tea Partiers?

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Is that Texas English?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Don't any of these maroons in the someone left the irony on department get that they've been profiling Tea Partiers?

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Hello again, tom: I mean clete: I mean Steve:

You can't tell the difference between behavioral profiling and racial profiling... It figures.

excon

PS> I'll bet they HAVE been profiling Tea Partiers, but NOT because they're WHITE.

I'm sure they have, and certainly a right wing nutjob would be among MANY potential suspects, but the extent to which they initially reminded us not to automatically think this was a jihadist... that was "reverse profiling." That line of thinking, if Shazad was more competent, is disastrous.



G&P

Now if they had surveillance video of some guy on horseback in revolutionary garb yelling "socialism is coming, socialism is coming"... okay... that may be a tea party member. :)




G&P

Gee, you mean they aren't a white supremacist movement after all?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Gee, you mean they aren't a white supremacist movement after all?

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Hello again, Steve:

They might be. And, if they're investigated due to their membership in those groups, it'll be because of THEIR MEMBERSHIP in those groups, which is BEHAVIOR, and not RACE.

I don't know what's so hard to get here, but it certainly escapes you guys.

excon