In another thread I complained of groups like PP imposing their agenda on our children without regard to parental values. Don't worry about it I was told, who's saying the parents can't be the parents? Here we go...

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Calif. District Creates Primary School Gay Curriculum

Monday, June 1, 2009 3:24 PM

By: Rick Pedraza

Elementary school teachers in Alameda, Calif. will introduce lesson plans to their educational curriculum beginning next year that address gay and lesbian issues, KCBS News in San Francisco reports.

Kindergarten through grade 5 students throughout the county will be exposed to same-sex educational material aimed at promoting tolerance and inclusiveness.

The curriculum –– which will include lessons to introduce students to “LGBT” (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transsexual) issues –– will be designed to discourage bullying and teasing based on gay and lesbian stereotypes. The plan will be implemented despite objections by parents who complain children are too young to be exposed to the material.

Many parents are condemning the lesson plan as sex education in disguise and are angered that they will not be allowed to exempt their children from the lessons. Opponents decry the curriculum plan as an effort to advance the gay, lesbian and transgendered agenda.

Those opposed to sexual orientation lessons for children are so upset they are threatening to sue the school board, ABC News reports. Promoting gay, lesbian and sexual orientation should be a parents' rights issue, parents say, and is not an appropriate topic for school children.

The Alameda school district's legal counsel, however, recommended the plan because the curriculum does not deal with health or sex education, which are topics that do require opt-out provisions.

“It was the opinion of our legal counsel that this curriculum was not health or sex education curriculum,” school board president Mike McMahon told CNS New.

“If a student responds that one family in the book is made up of a mother, a father, and two children and a cat, you may acknowledge that some families look like this, but ask students for other examples of what a family can look like.”

School Board Member Trish Spencer, who voted against the plan, said she worries that its implementation could lead to the harassment of students who have religious objections to homosexuality. She cited that bullying due to religion is a bigger problem for the district than bullying based on homosexuality.

Also adamantly opposed to the plan is Randy Thomasson, president of the Campaign for Children and Families.

“This will be done whether parents like it or not, and it shows the hostility against parental rights and traditional family values,” Thomasson, told CNS New.

Last month, the California Supreme Court upheld Proposition 8, the voter-approved initiative to make same-sex marriage illegal that passed in November.

The Alameda school board said it will review its decision to implement the curriculum at the end of next year’s school session.

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Is it the public school's place to instill their values in our children in spite of parental objections - or at all? Or does the public 'benefit' outweigh parental rights?

For all of you who think government should get out of the marriage business, should they get out of the parenting business such as this example, too?

I think what needs to be taught is accepting everyone no matter what- skin color, religion, sexual preference. And YES I think this needs to be taught in schools because there are still far too many ignorant people who will not teach this to our children. That is why there are still hate crimes. I don't understand 'Christains' judging everyone. People should be treated the same. I think in the end the only thing this will be doing is lowering hate crime. And parent should tell their children there are non-traditional families.

If you go against this being taught to our children do you think Sex Education is also wrong? Isn't that a part of parenting?

What is a hate crime ? Criminalizing thoughts ? If someone does a violent crime or other criminal acts those are crimes in themselves regardless of the motivating thought behind it.

If I had to do it over I would take my daughter out of public government brainwashing schools .

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Originally Posted by h_leann_b

I think what needs to be taught is accepting everyone no matter what- skin color, religion, sexual preference. And YES I think this needs to be taught in schools because there are still far too many ignorant people who will not teach this to our children. That is why there are still hate crimes. I don't understand 'Christains' judging everyone.

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That sounds to me like you're judging Christians. So what's the difference?

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People should be treated the same. I think in the end the only thing this will be doing is lowering hate crime.

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That's not what one board member thinks.

"School Board Member Trish Spencer, who voted against the plan, said she worries that its implementation could lead to the harassment of students who have religious objections to homosexuality."

I think she may be right based on the reaction to California's Prop 8 and Referendum 71 in Washington by those seeking "tolerance." This isn't about anything but forcing an agenda on parents. For the moment this is still a free country.

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And parent should tell their children there are non-traditional families.

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Why? Are they your kids?

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If you go against this being taught to our children do you think Sex Education is also wrong? Isn't that a part of parenting?

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Follow the first link I gave and you should be able to discern my opinion of that.

The kids will leave elementary school not knowing how to read ,write ,or do math. But they will know about gay pengiuns

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Tango_Makes_Three


http://thebsreport.files.wordpress.c...pg?w=450&h=350

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The kids will leave elementary school not knowing how to read ,write ,or do math. But they will know about gay pengiuns

And Tango Makes Three - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Sounds like this is all right in line with Obama's plan to focus on education so our students can compete in the global marketplace.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

For all of you who think government should get out of the marriage business, should they get out of the parenting business such as this example, too?

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Hello Steve:

You're my friend, but you're not going to like what I have to say...

The other day, there was a kid who needed chemo therapy in order to live, whose mother took him away so that he COULDN'T get it... The government stopped her. You may not believe the government should have done that. I do. In my view, the government DOES have a legitimate concern over the welfare of children.

The question now becomes, to what degree.

You don't believe children should be indoctrinated by liberal values in school. I don't believe children should be indoctrinated by conservative values at home.

Are conservative values dangerous?? Yup! I just saw a documentary called Jesus Camp. I wanted to rush in and RESCUE those poor little kids.

Should the government rush in and save 'em?? Nahhh. But, they should keep a close eye on 'em.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Steve:

You're my friend, but you're not going to like what I have to say...

The other day, there was a kid who needed chemo therapy in order to live, whose mother took him away so that he COULDN'T get it... The government stopped her. You may not believe the government should have done that. I do. In my view, the government DOES have a legitimate concern over the welfare of children.

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I absolutely believe the government has a legitimate concern over the welfare of children.

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The question now becomes, to what degree.

You don't believe children should be indoctrinated by liberal values in school. I don't believe children should be indoctrinated by conservative values at home.

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Who are you to say what I teach my kids as a responsible parent? Is that in the constitution somewhere? By what authority do schools have the right to undermine parental values?

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Are conservative values dangerous?? Yup! I just saw a documentary called Jesus Camp. I wanted to rush in and RESCUE those poor little kids.

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Naturally you choose an extreme example that has nothing to do with 99.9 percent of conservatives.

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Should the government rush in and save 'em?? Nahhh. But, they should keep a close eye on 'em.

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Were they doing something illegal? If not, you said freedom was messy didn't you?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Were they doing something illegal? If not, you said freedom was messy didn't you?

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Hello again, Steve:

I think the government should keep their eye on ALL fringe groups. And, I think they should do it lawfully.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Who are you to say what I teach my kids as a responsible parent?

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Who's going to decide who's being responsible?

excon

EC You are too funny for words!

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Steve:

You're my friend, but you're not gonna like what I have to say...

The other day, there was a kid who needed chemo therapy in order to live, whose mother took him away so that he COULDN'T get it... The government stopped her. You may not believe the government should have done that. I do. In my view, the government DOES have a legitimate concern over the welfare of children.
If and this is a big IF the objections are on religious grounds, then the Government should not have stepped in. Whether I think her religious beliefs are ridiculous or not or whether they are against the teachings of the Bible or not really has no bearing on that argument. It is her and her childs right to make an informed decision based on the best available information at the time.

The question now becomes, to what degree.

You don't believe children should be indoctrinated by liberal values in school. I don't believe children should be indoctrinated by conservative values at home. School is intended to teach children to read, write and to math. They are not there to teach what ever value that some idiot teacher has as a way of indoctrinating the children into their stupid belief system. That goes whether it is religion, homosexuality or politics!

Are conservative values dangerous???? Yup! I just saw a documentary called Jesus Camp. I wanted to rush in and RESCUE those poor little kids. Your opinion and I happen to disagree with that statement. I If this country still held to it's religious values, we would need as many police or prisons as we have today. people would understand right from wrong and make decisions based on those values. Sadly since liberalism has become main steam in this country you can see the results. Explosions in prison populations, and crime are rampant. I will not go down town any longer for fear for my life.

Should the government rush in and save 'em??? Nahhh. But, they should keep a close eye on 'em. Again, anytime you let the Government do anything it is so badly screwed up, not to mention the cost overruns it is not even funny any longer.

excon

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If the parents don't like what the school is teaching them take them out of the school. If parents are that concerned maybe they should home school their children. Then they can teach their kids to hate the same things they hate. Problem solved.

Tom I agree with the entire "Hate Crime" aren't all violent crimes hate crimes.

Ex I saw that Jesus Camp. That was disturbing. Those counselors broke the kids down to tears. Such A Shame.

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Originally Posted by excon

Who's gonna decide who's being responsible?

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Who's going to decide they're not?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Who's going to decide they're not?

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Hello again, Steve:

Janet Napolitano.

excon

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

If the parents don't like what the school is teaching them take them out of the school. If parents are that concerned maybe they should home school their children. Then they can teach their kids to hate the same things they hate. Problem solved.

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A lot of people can't just up and move their kids to another school or home school them.

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A lot of people can't just up and move their kids to another school or home school them

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Especially since the party of choice doesn't believe in educational choice.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Steve:

Janet Napolitano.

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She of the right-wing extremist papers? Why not just assign Bill Ayers or the good Rev. Wright as the parenting czar?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

She of the right-wing extremist papers?

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Hello again, Steve:

No. She the head COP with all the power in the world (that you right wingers gave her, by the way). Yeah, if I was you, I'd be nervous.

excon

PS> This is the time I usually say to you, that if you don't look after the OTHER GUY'S rights, yours may be next.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

especially since the party of choice doesn't believe in educational choice.

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Catholic School or public school There is the choice Tom. If a parent was serious about this they would find away to afford to send their kid to catholic school my parents did and we were Broke.

Maybe you should look at the vote on that act... 90-9 in the Senate and 295-132 in the House.

There are more private school options than Catholic schools. There are private schools that the elites like the Obama's patron.

But his instinct was to stop the voucher program(in the omnibus spending bill for fiscal year 2009 ) for underprivilaged students to attend these elite schools in DC . He doesn't believe poor people should have educational choices. Nor do the Senate Democrats who voted 50 to 39 to squash an amendment to extend the voucher program.

My parents didn't get any vouchers and I know they paid a lot to send me to a catholic school (I had to take the payments to school and I checked them out) So it is possible.

But if your parents were not using the public school system that they were paying taxes for then why shouldn't they have been able to take some of that money to send you to a school of their choosing ?

Yes some parents can afford it ;but many can't . My sister in Jacksonville took her children out of their school district to home school because the system there sucks and it is dangerous for children. She can't afford private school but she is paying for the public school system regardless .

I actually agree with your point that if you send your kid to a private/catholic school you should not have to pay taxes for public school (or at least pay a little less).

I used that argument when 8th grade finished and my parents wanted to send me to a catholic high school. I told them you are paying for the public school now so just send me there and the money you save from not sending me to a catholic school you can get me a car. I never got that car.

Just as long as you have no problem with parents getting money to send their kids to Islamic schools tom?

I agree that school districts should be teaching the kids not to pick and make fun of people because of their sexual choices.
** although kids up till high school should not be sexual anythingg, and I could argue about the high school ones.

But they should also be teaching them not to make fun of Christians, not make fun of nerds, or girls or fat people, or people with funny accents and so on.

You're against teaching same sex relationships in school so you want it banned. What about the parents that are all for it?

You can't please everyone.

If you don't like what your child's school is teaching then find a school that teaches your values.

Problem solved.

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Just as long as you have no problem with parents getting money to send their kids to Islamic schools tom?

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If they pay their school taxes then no I have no problem with it . Where I live there is a large Orthodox Jewish community that pays taxes but besides bus services get no other benefit for their school taxes and do not get vouchers. Since they don't ;they are active in the school board and vote in block to vote down the budget . The system is unfair to both them and the rest of the people in the district.

But I argue this more on the grounds that the system now is inequitable. Wealthy parents can choose any school they want for their kids; middle class parents often move to suburbs where better public schools exist; the poor, however, may be left to fend for themselves and restricted to dysfunctional public schools without any choice.

I note again that the Obama's are sending their children to the finest private school in Washington. Michelle Obama went to Bouchet Academy and Whitney Young High School .Justice Sonya Sotomayor is the product of private Catholic School education. The narrative that is told of her families climb from poverty cannot be accurately told without an acknowledgement of the role private schooling played.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

You're against teaching same sex relationships in school so you want it banned. What about the parents that are all for it?

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Get this, PUBLIC schools. Taxpayer dollars. The same area where all those people throw a fit that any sort of religious (Christian that is) value might cross a student's path want to force feed our children GLBT values without allowing parents to opt out? What about all the parents that WANT prayer or bible courses in school?

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If you don't like what your child's school is teaching then find a school that teaches your values.

Problem solved.

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Problem solved? You say that as if it's just easy as pie. What about those who can't afford it, have to work two jobs to make ends meet, single parents and every other poor soul who can't get a voucher to do something different? Is that your idea of being sensitive to the needs of poor families who work their butts off to provide a meager existence and raise their children with their values - suck it up and accept our agenda or just go somewhere else? Is the agenda more important than a real education, more important than the family itself?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Is that your idea of being sensitive to the needs of poor families ...

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If they are poor it's only because they aren't working hard enough. America is the land of freedom and opportunity. No handouts.

/republican mantra

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

If they are poor it's only because they aren't working hard enough. America is the land of freedom and opportunity. No handouts.

/republican mantra

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Which of us has ever said "If they are poor it's only because they aren't working hard enough?" Which of us has ever said "no handouts?" Would you care to address the actual topic?

Isn't a poor republican kind of an oxy-moron?

I'm sorry. But do you not let your children watch TV either? Do you not let your Children play with other children? They talk about thigs like this, and yes I think they should be educated. No point in letting more people in this country become ignorant. They should be taught tolerance in school, of everything; like I stated before.

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Originally Posted by h_leann_b

isn't a poor republican kind of an oxy-moron?

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Do you really believe all Republicans are rich? What was that you said about ignorance? This isn't about Republicans and Democrats. 7 out of 10 blacks voted for Prop 8 to ban gay marriage in California, how many of those do you suppose were Republicans?

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I'm sorry. But do you not let your children watch TV either? Do you not let your Children play with other children? They talk about thigs like this, and yes I think they should be educated. No point in letting more people in this country become ignorant. They should be taught tolerance in school, of everything; like I stated before.

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Tolerance of everything? Surely you have exceptions.

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isn't a poor republican kind of an oxy-moron?

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As much as a rich Democrat I suppose and we all know there are plenty of them.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

as much as a rich Democrat I suppose and we all know there are plenty of them.

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Hello again, tom:

At least we don't support tax cuts for 'em. I STILL don't know what your love affair with the rich is all about.

excon

Ex I never worked for a poor dude.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Ex I never worked for a poor dude.

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Well I guess you don't volunteer much or at all.

Quibbling again ? I don't consider my volunteer time as work .

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Originally Posted by h_leann_b

I think what needs to be taught is accepting everyone no matter what- skin color, religion, sexual preference. And YES I think this needs to be taught in schools because there are still far too many ignorant people who will not teach this to our children. That is why there are still hate crimes. I don't understand 'Christains' judging everyone. People should be treated the same. I think in the end the only thing this will be doing is lowering hate crime. And parent should tell their children there are non-traditional families.

If you go against this being taught to our children do you think Sex Education is also wrong? Isn't that a part of parenting?

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A couple of points.

1) Why do we need to be accepting of everyone. I know that this is the "accepted wisdom", but is it true? Do we need to be accepting of those who would have sex with children? After all, if you ask NAMBLA, having sex with kids is just another lifestyle choice. According to your statement, all such lifestyle choices are equal, and should all be accepted? So I question this bit of "accepted wisdom". Do we really need to be accepting of "everyone"? Because I most certainly do not accept everyone equally. I don't accept everyone and everything. I freely admit that I descriminate... not based on skin color or race, but based on right and wrong, good and evil, success and failure. I do not accept everyone and everything equally. And neither should you.

2) Not being a Christian, I can't really answer for them. However, I AM a religious Orthodox Jew, and I can tell you that there is good reason to judge some people. For instance, Osama bin Laden... is he "just the same" as everyone else? Should we not judge his actions and come to the conclusion that he is wrong and evil? How about Sadam Hussein? He murdered millions of his own people and millions of Iranians with poison gas. Is he "just the same as everyone else"?

On the other side of the fence... Was Mother Teresa the same as everyone else, or was she an extraordinarily loving, charitable, self-sacrificing person who should be viewed as something over and above the norm? How about Mahatma Gandhi? Was a man who was willing to sacrifice his life for peace at all costs "just the same as everyone else"?

We need to have value judgements... based on our moral values. Not everyone is the same, and not everyone should be judged the same.

3) "And parent should tell their children there are non-traditional families."

YES... A PARENT. Not some school teacher or administrator with a political agenda. It is MY decision what to tell my children about "alternative familites", not the school system's decision. And if I wish to tell my children that I do not accept "alternative families" (read: gay couples) as the same as traditional families, THAT IS MY CHOICE AND MY RIGHT, and that right is guaranteed in the First Amendment of the Constitution. It is NOT within the government's authority to override my personal teachings to my children with their own.

4) I am against sex education within the school system. I am against it because it is an abrogation of my rights and responsibilities as a parent. I am all for PARENTS teaching their kids about sex. That is part of the job of a parent. I am against it being taught by the school system, especially when what the schools are teaching is contrary to what I am teaching my children.

So in answer to your question, I'm not against sex ed. I'm against sex ed being taught by the school system. It should be taught by me to my children and by you to your children.

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Originally Posted by h_leann_b

isn't a poor republican kind of an oxy-moron?

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As a currently unemployed conservative going through a divorce, with virtually no money in the bank, I find that to be a very insulting comment.

There are quite a few conservatives suffering from Obama's economic policies through the loss of assets, jobs and income sources, and I'm one of them. In fact, I would venture to argue that most of the GM bondholders who got screwed out of their life savings yesterday are conservative financial investors.

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I'm sorry. But do you not let your children watch TV either?

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Actually, no, my kids don't watch TV. They are 8 and 7, and they have discovered these things called BOOKS that are much more entertaining than TV. And they spend time outdoors. In fact, most of the children in my kids' schools don't watch TV... they go to very religious Yeshiva schools where it is common for there to be no TVs in the homes of the children. And you know what? The kids get along just fine without TV.

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Do you not let your Children play with other children? They talk about thigs like this,

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Differently cultures do things differently. My kids play with other Orthodox Jewish kids, and somehow, issues involving sex just don't seem to have come up in their conversations with their peers.

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and yes I think they should be educated.

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So do I. At the proper time. With the parents being the educators, not the schools.

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No point in letting more people in this country become ignorant.

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The only ignorance I see is the idea that "everyone is equal". That is about as ignorant an idea as has ever been put forward by anyone.

Here's a clue... gay people cannot have children on their own without the help of a third party. Therefore, they are NOT equal in the biological sense. I'm not talking about morality, just biology. They are DIFFERENT in that they cannot reproduce. This is a quantifiable difference between gay couples and straight couples, and it is a difference that cannot be denied. The idea that they are the same is an attempt to ignore a basic fact of biology.

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They should be taught tolerance in school, of everything; like I stated before.

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Not everything is tolerable or should be tolerated.

Should we tolerate terrorism?

Should we tolerate criminal behavior?

Should we tolerate breaking the law?

There are those who would argue that terrorists are just people who have a different cultural viewpoint than us, that criminals have just been given a bad break in life.

I do not tolerate criminal activity, and I believe that anyone who does is a fool. So why are you preaching blind "tolerance" or anything and everything? Don't you have eyes to tell you what these people are doing, and a heart that says that some things are wrong and must be eliminated?

In fact you do feel that. You believe that our "intolerance" is wrong, and you want it eliminated. THat is a moral value judgement... and a sign that there are certain things that YOU will not tolerate, like intolerance.

That's the paradox, isn't it. If you are against those who, like me, are considered intolerant, you are not being very tolerant of another viewpoint. If you accept our viewpoint, you are tolerating intolerance, which makes you a supporter of intolerance. It's a catch .22 brought on by a position that is logically untennable.

Best instead to admit that you are making a value judgement and based on that value judgement you are intolerant of those who are intolerant... which makes you no different from us conservatives. The only difference is in what you are willing to be intollerant about.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by h_leann_b

isn't a poor republican kind of an oxy-moron?

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Are you aware of the fact that there are 60% more millionaires who identify as Democrats and Liberals than Republicans or Conservatives? That's from a poll taken in 2006 and published by Quinipiac, I think (I'm sure about the year, not so sure about the polling agency).

I think you should check your facts before you post comments like that.