Some of us need to have things explained in a simple way for us to understand.

Let's liken the tax structure to a 10 story building.
The first thing is that there has to be a foundation, and then the rest of the 10 floors are built. The foundation carries ALL the load of all 10 floors and their contents.

Now let's add some heavy weight to floors 8 to 10. We won't add any weight to those floors below 8. They will remain the same. As you can see, the total load of the 10 floors will all be carried by the foundation.

Now let's build a tax structure. We start with a foundation. That is the consumer. The 10 floors above will all be supported by this foundation.

Now we will add some really heavy tax on those floors 8 and above. Guess what? The consumer will carry ALL the load. It doesn't matter which floor the load is put on.

Renters pay property tax. Drivers pay windfall profit taxes on Big Oil. It all gets passed to the bottom. The only people this doesn't apply to are those TOTALLY supported by other taxpayers.

Don't let the politicians bamboozle you.

Hello gal:

It's true. Obama wants to raise taxes on the highest of wage earners to 10% BELOW what they were paying under Ronnie Raygun... That should THRILL you guys...

Besides, I thought you guys were the adult party. Don't you believe in paying your bills?

excon

President Obama wants to raise the highest federal bracket to 39 percent. If that happens, Americans earning more than about $373,000 a year will give to government roughly 50 percent of all they earn. In states such as New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, and California, where such an income is not all that unusual for a dual-income couple, that already happens when all taxes are accounted for.
How did it become "fair" for an American family to give to government half of its income?
Meanwhile almost 50% of Americans pay no or nearly no income tax. If I paid no income tax, I would probably not be unhappy with the current system and would favor all the extra spending on my behalf ;paid for by the fruits of other's labors.

You favor all the extra spending . I'm in favor of cutting spending . (before you say it... I know both parties are complicit)

My solution is to end automatic withholdings and let everyone cut a quarterly estimate check. That would cure some of this fervor in this country to tax and spend.

As I explained to ex on another post, "fair" means something like "lock in this advantage."

Actually I understated the problem because I failed to mention the AMT factor .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

It all gets passed to the bottom. The only people this doesn't apply to are those TOTALLY supported by other taxpayers.

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Hello again, gal:

May I presume, then, that when you become one of those people, who ordinarily get supported by other taxpayers, that you'll send your Social Security check back and you won't take advantage of Medicare??

Nahhhh. I'm not going to presume that.

excon

Since you pay for your coverage for both before you use either; I don't see how that example applies.

As you know, today is the day for TEA parties, which the left has dubbed "astroturf" protests. Marc Cooper opines in the LA Times today that it's a sign of insanity (perhaps I should have posted this in the VRWC post)?

Quote:

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The Web is buzzing with information about how to throw an anti-Obama Taxpayer Tea Party, something organizers hope will be held today from Santa Monica to South Carolina. But no need to burn up your bandwidth reading complicated instructions. Here's a simpler recipe:

Go to a hobby store. Buy a scale model of a U.N. One-World-Government Black Helicopter and a tube of glue. Toss the model kit. Sniff the entire tube of glue. You're all set for the party.

I can recall only a few outbreaks of such collective insanity as these tea parties in recent years...

---

I guess he missed the "Shake your Money Maker" event during the Democrat convention last year where attendees were encouraged to "Bring noise makers, energy, spells, magic,costumes, anything that gives you power" in order to levitate the Denver Mint and "shake the money out of it for the people."

I wonder how much glue was sniffed in preparation for that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

since you pay for your coverage for both before you use either; I don't see how that example applies.

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Hello again, tom:

But, of course, you don't pay for your coverage.

These programs socialistic ponzi schemes born out of the New Deal, that your grandchildren are going to be paying for, and you'd be arguing against in any other thread.

But, these programs don't seem so socialistic when the check is made out to YOU. I understand.

excon

I am compelled to participate in their plan . Do I think there is a better way ? Hell Ya !

I don't see these tea parties as anti-Obama . I see them as a protest against the expanding Federal Government ;excess taxation ;excess growth in government . But if the shoe fits then Obama should wear it I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

President Obama wants to raise the highest federal bracket to 39 percent. If that happens, Americans earning more than about $373,000 a year will give to government roughly 50 percent of all they earn.

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I'd like to buy real estate off you Tom...

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ml#post1335364


New York Income Tax Rates - New York & other state tax rates information. NY tax calculator.

Quote:

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If your income range is between $100,001 and $500,000, your tax rate on every dollar of income earned is 7.375%

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Married Tax Rates - 2008 Married Filing Jointly Income Tax Rates

greater than $357,000 for 2008 = 35%
Obama wants to raise that to 39%


FICA & SECA Tax Rates


7.65%



------------------------------------------


So for married filing jointly in NY
35% federal
7.35% state income tax
7.25% social security and medicare tax

that is close to 50% right there

This does not include NYC tax, sales tax, gas tax, property tax etc...



easily > 50%



----------------------------------------


I hope Tom has some pricey swampland for you to buy :)








G&P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/curren...ml#post1335364

New York Income Tax Rates - New York & other state tax rates information. NY tax calculator.


Married Tax Rates - 2008 Married Filing Jointly Income Tax Rates

greater than $357,000 for 2008 = 35%
Obama wants to raise that to 39%

FICA & SECA Tax Rates


7.65%

------------------------------------------


So for married filing jointly in NY
35% federal
7.35% state income tax
7.25% social security and medicare tax

that is close to 50% right there

This does not include NYC tax, sales tax, gas tax, property tax etc....


easily > 50%

----------------------------------------

I hope Tom has some pricey swampland for you to buy :)


G&P

---

I stand corrected. I didn't realise you got taxed by the state as well.

Also keep in mind that level of income is subject to the AMT

And that doesn't include the various local property ,municipal and sales taxes we pay .

In thanks for posting that .

Hello teapartiers:

Taxes... Yeah... Evabody hates 'em... But, I don't understand your protest, cause unless you make more than a quarter of a MILLION dollars, your taxes went DOWN, starting this month... Really, they did!

I don't know. A majority surveyed by Gallop last week said their federal taxes are "too low" or "about right". So, splain again about taxes??

excon

Soaking the rich is always an enticing reason and an opening to abusive taxation .

The 16th amendment originally had a cap on the total for fear that Congress would abuse the power. Of course they used class warfare to get everyone on board .The top tax rate was originally set at 7 % It applied only to people earning more than $300,000… the equivalent of $7.5 million of today's dollars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello teapartiers:

Taxes.... Yeah.... Evabody hates 'em... But, I don't understand your protest, cause unless you make more than a quarter of a MILLION dollars, your taxes went DOWN, starting this month.... Really, they did!

I dunno. A majority surveyed by Gallop last week said their federal taxes are "too low" or "about right". So, splain again about taxes?????

excon

---

Keep in mind that these are INCOME taxes, and TAXES for Social security and Medicare.

If you don't work for a living, you don't pay these taxes.
It is truly the rich that don't have to work for a living - they live off a trust or their investment income which is taxed at a lower rate than a married couple, both working, and jointly making over $100,000.




G&P

Hello again, tom:

Taxes are bad and soaking the rich isn't cool. Besides, taxes are (somehow) unfair... I got it. That's the Republican position...

But, it's kind of a LIBERAL position, after all. Because if we don't pay our bills, we're going to have to borrow the money.

You DO like spending it, though. Oh, I know, I know, you'll tell me that you don't, and that you objected when the dufus spent like a drunken sailor, and grew the government bigger and faster than the Democrat who preceded him...

But, you guys didn't hold any tea parties then... So, I got to tell you, it just looks like you don't like Obama. Spending has nothing to do with it...

excon

Spending has everything to do with it when he expotentially increases it.

Contribution and Benefit Base

"After 1993, there has been no limitation on HI-taxable earnings. Tax rates under the HI program are 1.45 percent for employees and employers, each, and 2.90 percent for self-employed persons."

Tax rate is twice for self-employed?!



-----------------------------------------------

This is the upper limit income to which social security taxes [ oasdi ] are paid.

2007 97,500
2008 102,000
2009 106,800


Note that there is a 6.2% payroll taxes from dollar one. This is regressive.


2007 and 2008 tax brackets -- MSN Money

Now this is progressive.

The more income you earn, the more you pay in terms of absolute dollar amount and percentage of income.


-------------------------------------------------

Quote:

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Taxes are bad and soaking the rich isn't cool. Besides, taxes are (somehow) unfair... I got it. That's the Republican position...

---

Ex

The information is there to objectively prove that the current tax system IS UNFAIR.

Soaking those that work hard to earn more money - that is unfair.


G&P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Soaking those that work hard to earn more money - that is unfair.

---

Hello in:

I don't disagree. The only tax structure that would be FAIR is a flat tax - the same rate for everybody - but that wouldn't be fair, either.

Or how about eliminating the income tax and instituting a national sales tax? Nahhh, that wouldn't be fair.

How would YOU tax the people fairly?

excon

PS> Oh, and I think dissent is great... I just couldn't tell what you were dissenting against.

Ex is right about one thing. I WILL spend my Social Security, all whopping $1200 per month of it! I spent about 45 years putting into the system. I COULD have put something back at INTEREST except some Dem liberal set it up so I had no choice.

Another illustration about taxes. You have the job of equalizing the deep and shallow ends of a swimming pool. You take a 5 gal bulcket and move the water from the deep end and put it in the shallow end. On the way, you pour half of it on the ground. That goes to Washington.

Something else is steaming me. The attitude on the part of the left in this country that any who dare disagree with them are ignorant and dangerous people, and their opinions are not worthy of being considered is INSUFFERABLE ARROGANCE!

When Obama talked about American arrogance, he must have been thinking of himself!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello in:

I don't disagree. The only tax structure that would be FAIR is a flat tax - the same rate for everybody - but that wouldn't be fair, either.

Or how about eliminating the income tax and instituting a national sales tax?? Nahhh, that wouldn't be fair.

How would YOU tax the people fairly?

excon

PS> Oh, and I think dissent is great... I just couldn't tell what you were dissenting against.

---

Glad you asked: :)
Americans For Fair Taxation: Americans For Fair Taxation


As to dissent : I was working yesterday and had family activities, so I could not attend the closest "tea party" 80 miles away, but the dissent is over increasing government spending, increasing taxes, and increasing government power.


With

Fed's Beige Book: Economic weakness slowing, maybe bottoming - Apr. 15, 2009

the economy slowing to near bottom, how can spending trillions more help?
where do those trillions come from? Taxpayors? Will the Chinese continue to buy up US debt? What will the value of the dollar be when the Fed just prints more out of nothing? Inflation hurts the poorest the most.

In fact,

Fed's Beige Book: Economic weakness slowing, maybe bottoming - Apr. 15, 2009

So why the need for government deficit spending of an unprecedented amount [ porkulus ]?





G&P

Hello in:

I read it. Seems to me that a "progressive national retail sales tax", soaks the rich too.

That's what the word "progressive" means. It gets higher the more you spend.

excon

That is right.

The truly rich, those that live off trusts or investment income, have the means to pay accountants to shelter their money from taxes.

The rich tend to buy very expensive things this is where they are taxed. They can't shelter money if they spend it. And we can't be taxed exorbitantly if we don't spend exorbitantly.

It rewards saving. Under the current the "income" you make from the bank saving accounts gets taxed.

The "prebates" means the government gives ALL enough to at least to eat.



G&P