Hello:

I don't know. There's an 800 lb gorilla in the room. Is it better that we DON'T talk about it? Should we just forget about the last 8 years and the lessons it brings?? Are there any lessons??

I think there are. If we ignore them, we're destined to relive them..

The 800 pound gorilla is that the dufus really WAS a puppet. And, like Pinocchio before, he thought he was real... The danger is that a leaderless ship can find itself on the rocks...

That's where we are. You know I think so... But, here's what neo-con Richard Perle wrote in an article this week in The National Interest. You remember him. He's one of the guys who got us into Iraq.

"Bush was undercut on the most crucial foreign policy issues he faced by the State Department and the CIA, which either ignored his policies or openly sought to discredit them."

As Perle described Bush's presidency, "For eight years George W. Bush pulled the levers of government - sometimes frantically - never realizing that they were disconnected from the machinery and the exertion was largely futile."

Hail, hail, the dufus is gone.

excon

I don't understad why you see this as a second coming ?

Aren't your expectations to big ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ravana2

i dont understad why you see this as a second coming ?

---

I reread his post and saw nothing that referred to that. Perhaps you could quote the text I missed?

Perle is right of course . I have been talking for years about the careerists in State and CIA undermining policy.

Best read on this is 'Shadow Warriors' by Ken Timmerman .

If there is commity and unity of action with the new administration and the new POTUS it will not be because of his leadership .Rather it will be because the careerist and the POTUS have the same policy agenda. When they differ ,Obama's agenda will be undermined also with leaks to the Slimes and internal sabotage .

You should not be thrilled about it . The way I read it ,the careerists in State are Arabists and would silently rejoice if Israel disappeared .

I asked about expectatons from obama . Isn't that a topic ? Or I didn't understan it .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ravana2

arent your expectations to big ?

---

Hello again, r:

I don't have expectations. I'm too cynical for that. But, I DO have hopes. Are they too big? Sure.

excon

I think that all this obamamania that spread around the world is just another...

I also hope that obama will be a good presidant for americans . Usually when something is to-good-to-be-trouth its not .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

You should not be thrilled about it . The way I read it ,the careerists in State are Arabists and would silently rejoice if Israel disappeared .

---

Hello tom:

I'm not, of course. Rice wanted to vote in favor of UN Security Council Resolution 1860 which called for an immediate ceasefire between IDF forces and Hamas terrorists - a CLEAR anti-Israel stance...

I just wonder if that isn't because the dufus never held anyone accountable. Or, are we just stuck with career bureaucrats running the show? Scary thought, huh?

excon

I'm not thrilled about it either . Rice started being a reformer at State but she could not crack the bureaucratic quicksand. She has not perfomed there as well as she did as National Security Adviser.

Bush is not completely without fault in this of course. He could've as an example not allowed the State Dept change his original post war plan for Iraq. It should've been clear early on the Viceroy Bremer was single-handedly changing postwar Iraq from liberation to occupation.

Bush trying to reform the CIA appointed Porter Goss.But his term was short and he left under suspicious reasons which looked very much like he was pushed out. From all accounts, Goss had managed in a short time to make himself thoroughly disliked by the rank and file of the CIA.

And as you are aware ,the CIA ran a sting operation on VP Cheney's office . But there is much more .

By the way ;give Rice some slack on that UN vote. She was working with Livni on a US agreement to interdict weapons being smuggled into Gaza . Israel imposed a unilateral ceasefire on itself shortly after both the UN vote and the announcement of the agreement. I hope that Obama signed onto it.

Breathe a sigh of reliefandchange, ex... it's done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Breathe a sigh of reliefandchange, ex...it's done.

---

OK... let's try and evalute President Obama on his actions starting tomorrow rather than parrotting the Shock Talk Radio right wing predictions of a communist revolution.

So let's all hold hands at least for today and raise our voices in unison and sing a stirring rendition of "Kumbaya" :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TexasParent

OK...let's try and evalute President Obama on his actions starting tomorrow rather than parrotting the Shock Talk Radio right wing predictions of a communist revolution.

So let's all hold hands at least for today and raise our voices in unison and sing a stirring rendition of "Kumbaya" :D

---

Tex, that's all fine and well but I'm really quite unsure why you would speak of "parrotting the Shock Talk Radio right wing predictions of a communist revolution" in relation to what I posted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Tex, that's all fine and well but I'm really quite unsure why you would speak of "parrotting the Shock Talk Radio right wing predictions of a communist revolution" in relation to what I posted.

---

It was not directed at you speech, it was more of a general statement to those who lean right on these threads. I shouldn't have quoted you in my post, I should have just posted without a quote. Sorry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TexasParent

It was not directed at you speech, it was more of a general statement to those who lean right on these threads. I shouldn't have quoted you in my post, I should have just posted without a quote. Sorry.

---

No problem :)

OK, I'm all Kumbaya'd out today. Man that Rick Warren is sure controversial, eh? But how about that benediction by Rev. Joseph Lowery?

Quote:

---

in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get in back, when brown can stick around... when yellow will be mellow... when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white will embrace what is right.

---

Um, welcome to the post-racial age in America.

Not to be outdone by that thought provoking inaugural poem...

Quote:

---

Praise song for the day.

Each day we go about our business, walking past each other, catching each others' eyes or not, about to speak or speaking. All about us is noise. All about us is noise and bramble, thorn and din, each one of our ancestors on our tongues. Someone is stitching up a hem, darning a hole in a uniform, patching a tire, repairing the things in need of repair.

Someone is trying to make music somewhere with a pair of wooden spoons on an oil drum with cello, boom box, harmonica, voice.

A woman and her son wait for the bus.

A farmer considers the changing sky; A teacher says, "Take out your pencils. Begin."

We encounter each other in words, words spiny or smooth, whispered or declaimed; words to consider, reconsider.

We cross dirt roads and highways that mark the will of someone and then others who said, "I need to see what's on the other side; I know there's something better down the road."

We need to find a place where we are safe; We walk into that which we cannot yet see.

Say it plain, that many have died for this day. Sing the names of the dead who brought us here, who laid the train tracks, raised the bridges, picked the cotton and the lettuce, built brick by brick the glittering edifices they would then keep clean and work inside of.

Praise song for struggle; praise song for the day. Praise song for every hand-lettered sign; The figuring it out at kitchen tables.

Some live by "Love thy neighbor as thy self."

Others by first do no harm, or take no more than you need.

What if the mightiest word is love, love beyond marital, filial, national. Love that casts a widening pool of light. Love with no need to preempt grievance.

In today's sharp sparkle, this winter air, anything can be made, any sentence begun.

On the brink, on the brim, on the cusp -- praise song for walking forward in that light.

---

Wow, I'm so moved...

OMG... that's the second time I fell asleep to that poem today, the first time one TV and the second reading it here.

I don't even like Rap; but if someone could put a beat to it I might be able to stomach it.

That and the instrumental... at pretty as it was, it sounded at times more appropriate for a funeral. The only entertainment was the "Yo Yo" guy on the Celo, he thought he was belting it out like it was a rock concert, I liked his enthusiasm.

Other than that, snorefest.

Oh... and President Obama needs to smile a little more. Far too serious and he looked nervous before coming out. I am sure it's planned that he can't look too happy in these serious times.

Policy aside; I liked George Bush personally, he almost always had a smile on his face and had a sense of humor which I liked. Perhaps it takes a while on the job for the President to feel comfortable, I don't remember if George was stiffer in the beginning. Almost all outgoing President's look more comfortable than the incoming one, I guess in part because they ARE happy they get to relax finally and I suppose because we are so used to seeing them.

Hi excon-

Not much time before my mother (the babysitter) brings my kid back home so I'll make this brief. To pick up on your topic I watched a good portion of the inauguration today. I agree that generally speaking, nationally (perhaps globally), there was sense of relief that a Bush clan led White House has finally ended. Of course, you and I know that realistically the effects of Dumbya will unfortunately linger on for years.

Barack's speech was poignantly correct. However, the thing that struck me foremost was that for the first time this historical moment was larger than Barack, as a politician, or his orator skills. Seeing elderly African Americans in tears, thinking they would had never had experienced this in their lifetime was wonderful insight to the progress of the United States... the country I love.

Quote:

---

Shock Talk Radio right wing predictions

---

Tuned into air America yesterday and got an ear full from the free giverment cheese crowd complaining about all of President Obama's talk of personal responsibility .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

tuned into air America yesterday and got an ear full from the free giverment cheese crowd complaining about all of President Obama's talk of personal responsibility .

---

That's weird it's actually quite the opposite:
A New Era of Responsibility | Air America Media

Quote:

---

Responsibility is not a dirty word. It is not Republican code.

---

Meanwhile Rush Limbaugh is saying:
Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails

Quote:

---

I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: "Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails." Somebody's gotta say it.

---

I was talking about the callers.(nice comments on your link about VP Cheney's injury )

The editors of Air head should heed to words of the new President
On this day, we come to proclaim an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn-out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics.

Also idiots like Tom Brokejaw of the discredited NBC network ;who compared Obama's inauguration to the Velvet Revolution in the Czech Republic that overthrew a dictatorial Communist regime;should heed President Obama's words .

And how about that Chris "thrill up my leg" Matthews?

Quote:

---

OLBERMANN: Well, as we noticed, and again, we all walked through this crowd to some degree. I don't know how many good mornings were said today.

MATTHEWS: Well, it sure as hell helps to be on MSNBC --

OLBERMANN: Well, all right --

MATTHEWS: Let's talk straight here --

OLBERMANN: All right.

MATTHEWS: This is the network that has opened its heart to change -- to change and its possibilities. Let's be honest about it. These -- these people watch this network out here.

OLBERMANN: Well, I'm -- also was going to say, not just to us. You heard other people say hello to each other. People didn't know each other, who are here for one single purpose. And were thus already introduced to each other --

MATTHEWS: This is the network of the 21st Century -- MSNBC, and I think we're open to it and that's why this crowd knows us and I think --

OLBERMANN: He's Chris Matthews and he approved that message.

MATTHEWS: We're not crotchety about change -- stuffy.

---

An amazing thing . People in a crowd saying hello to each other!!

Now that's a pivotal change from the past!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

an amazing thing . People in a crowd saying hello to each other !!!

Now that's a pivotal change from the past !!!

---

LOL, I live in an area where people still give a wave, a nod, a hello to strangers... where men still open a door for the ladies and get a sincere thank you in return. Is that coming to a neighborhood near you soon?

In the real America "red "and "blue "(the America not inhabitted by myopic loons like Matthews and Olberman) I find people to be generally cordial... even in New York. My community ;just a short drive from NYC ; resembles Mayberry RFD as much as the small towns I lived in Kansas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

Also idiots like Tom Brokejaw of the discredited NBC network

---

Hello tom:

Discredited by who? Fox? O'Reilly? Hannity? Well, there you go.

Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomder55

in the real America "red "and "blue "(the America not inhabitted by myopic loons like Matthews and Olberman) I find people to be generally cordial ...even in New York. My community ;just a short drive from NYC ; resembles Mayberry RFD as much as the small towns I lived in Kansas.

---

Exactly.

I get it, it doesn't matter if "Fox? O'Reilly? Hannity?" are right.

Hello again, Steve:

It would matter IF they were right, but they're not...

In fact, your Fox Dudes wallow in the same slime that NBC does. They're ALL apologists for the status quo, instead of being actual reporters. In fact, NBC made their CHIEF apologist the moderator of Meet the Press.

Bush could NOT have gotten away with what he did WITHOUT a compliant press corp.

excon

Ex, they're all worthless in many respects - but I have to laugh at the thought of NBC being part of a compliant press corps for Bush, and David Gregory being the chief apologist.

I have a outside perspective growing up in Canada with regard to American television media.

Most Canadian's can't believe how dumbed down media reporting and commentary is here.

Like the post above which quotes the comment by Obermann "You heard other people say hello to each other". Is an example of how the American people are talked to. It's like they are still on the farm in Iowa, uneducated and have just bought their first television.

Why is it that the American media seems to talk at a Grade 6 level?

What is it about the major networks who make a big deal about the simple kindness that exists in the real world all the time?

I doubt any of you have seen Canadian news broadcasts, but I would say they are more like the BBC which tend to be a little deeper, and the audience is talked to like they at least have a high school education.

I know most of you right leaners don't like MSNBC, but in my experience this type of nonsense is true of all the major networks.

My question is why? Why do the media talk to American's like they are simple folk?

Canadian's at least and I'm sure many other countries see America through the eyes of your media, is there any wonder why the average American is viewed as none too bright?

I can tell you from personal experience from talking to many American's from all different states that they are anything but simple; quite the opposite really. So why does the media continue to 'talk' to American's in this way?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I have to laugh at the thought of NBC being part of a compliant press corps for Bush, and David Gregory being the chief apologist.

---

Hello again, Steve:

From his own mouth as Gregory himself put it during his dismissal of leftist ideologue Scott McClellan's complaints that the press was overly deferential to Bush:

"I think there are a lot of critics who think that . . . . if we did not stand up and say this is bogus, and you're a liar, and why are you doing this, that we didn't do our job. I respectfully disagree. It's not our role.".

I disagree, and NOT respectfully either. In fact, that IS their role. Investigatory questions are NOT confrontational, as Gregory seems to think.

Here's a little more:

Steven Colbert nailed it when he interviewed Gregory: "Are you proud of the questions the press asked of the administration? Because I'm proud of the questions you didn't ask."

Gregory: "I do think the right questions were asked, and I think people view our job through their own ideological prism, and they've made some judgments along those lines."

In other words, only a leftist ideologue such as ME thinks that the press should actually report when government statements are false and baseless.

excon

I don’t know where I must have been the past 8 years because I certainly haven’t been privy to the same media coverage of Bush that you have. Was there a time when the media was deferential to Bush? Probably to an extent in the aftermath of 9/11, but I certainly haven’t seen anything like that for the majority of his administration. He was kicked around before he took office, jeered on the way out and took a phenomenal number of blows in between. Did you miss that?

I’m often tempted to cancel my newspaper because I’m sick of being told how I should interpret the ‘news.’ That’s where the mainstream media has lost its way, it doesn’t report, it manipulates (which I believe explains much of what TexasParent questions). Gregory was just ticked off at the idea that HE got manipulated because he thinks that’s the job of the press.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Did you miss that?

---

Did you miss "lowest approval rating"? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Did you miss "lowest approval rating"? :)

---

Sometimes you actually swerve into the point. How could I miss it? The media repeated it a gazillion times. There are 15,405 hits Google News hits at this moment for Bush approval rating and 423,000 for a web search.

That many people can't be wrong! I guess the media was indeed reporting the news correctly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That many people can't be wrong! I guess the media was indeed reporting the news correctly.

---

And like so many you fail to question what impact 8 years of extremely negative reporting has on the public.

Well you enter into a cause and effect debate: is it the negative reporting that fueled the approval rating or is it the actual actions/decisions of the president that fueled the approval rating?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Well you enter into a cause and effect debate: is it the negative reporting that fueled the approval rating or is it the actual actions/decisions of the president that fueled the approval rating?

---

I have no doubt that it was some of both, I just don't discount the effect on the public of a constant pummeling of someone in the media.