... than let them be temporarily sheltered in a church

wcbstv.com - NYC Churches Ordered Not To Shelter Homeless

It never fails... it's only a short time before the bureaucrats lose sight of their purpose and start making regulations and passing laws that in effect outlaw competition .

A homeless person might want to avoid an official "government homeless shelter" for a number of reasons (because they suck and are dangerous places ?),and instead sleep on the street or temporarily take shelter in a church or facility run by some faith based organization that only has the capitol and manpower to operate once a week or when weather conditions deteriorate ?

This reminds me of the restrictions placed on private food pantries that are shut down because they don't meet local restaurant regulations. Much better to let the hungry dumpster dive than eat a home made casserole made in a private kitchen I suppose.:confused:

Just happened to see this. Difficult to imagine what it must be like living on the streets in freezing weather conditions... numbing thought. Not nice shutting them out of churches, eh.

I remember last year there were this homeless couple living on the streets in Long Island and they were being interview by a news caster and they stated they have been living on the streets for a few years. The lady interviewing them ask why don't they go into a shelter but they stated they rather lived in the streets.

This night there was a deep freeze in affect but they stated they lived through many deep freezing and was afraid. Sadly, the next day the guy died because of the weather and it was sad.

So yes I don't think anyone should be out cold. Yesterday I just went to the store and I was cold so I can't image someone living outsif in this weather.

One of my friends resue animals, mostly cats, that live on the streets. I feel sorry for them too because many of them died too. People shouldn't throw out their animals when there are plenty of shelters. The upside of that is that many of them are full and they can only hold them for a certain amount of time. I am glad that NY is offering help to people who can't afford their animals because of the economy to help people keep their animals by providing food and giving referrals to vets that lower their fees, some by more than half. At least this can help lower the amounts of homeless animals.

Being homeless whether you live in a car (a luxury, believe me if you are homeless) or on foot is an extremely hard life. To deny a homeless person shelter in the cold is worse than inhumane - it's tatamount to premeditated murder in my eyes. Just let one politician have to spend the night outside in a below zero or windchill at 10 degrees and see if they don't decide to open up churches for shelter.

This country will have an overabundance of homeless people this winter due to the foreclosures amongst other reasons. I have no idea how these people will somehow get back on their feet in this economy, let alone try and have at least one meal a day. To be eligible for food stamps you have to have a permanent addresss (unless they have changed this requirement) and you are not allowed to purchase "fast food" or pre-cooked food with the food stamps either. No, you have to buy the food and go home and cook it on your imaginary stove should you miraculously qualify for food stamps. So, just how is a homeless person going to cook their food? They can't. They will have to eat cold soup, cold lunchmeat sandwiches, cold anything.

I had a friend who lived in a car for 3 months in the winter many years ago. She at least had the luxury of a vehicle for some sort of shelter. She could not get food stamps as she did not have a permanent address or landlord or utility bills to prove she lived in a for real place. She somehow qualified for public housing as she had a child under age 16 and got a bare 2 bedroom apartment. She slept on the floor until she found a bed at the side of the road. Since she did have a permanent address she could start collecting food stamps. She got a $300 car borrowing the money for it. She got a job and then purchased furniture at Goodwill, $25 couch and $15 love seat. She somehow was able to get her life back on track and live like she used to before she lost her job and her home. It was not easy. She told me that she had spent the night in her car when the temperature was near zero and could not keep the engine running for the heater as she did not have enough gasoline to do this.

I cann't imagine what horror stories we are going to be reading about this winter about the homless dying due to exposure. It's supposed to be a long, cold winter with a lot of snow.

Being homeless is a choice! If they would work and get a job instead of relying on handouts then they could support themselves.

NK.. you can't be serious. Or can you? Sheesh, I can't even tell anymore.

I work in a restaurant, we have extra rice at the end of the night... also some other things, I do not take them to the shelters, I just put it all in separate boxes and hand it out when we have it. I don't do it as often as I should, so thanks for the reminder.

Being cold sucks. I put our extra winter clothes from years before in my car and if I see someone who may benefit from it, then I grab something and hand it to them with a sweet smile and a kind heart.

If my boss knew how many people I feed in a week, I could be fired.
Your comment NK, is mine for people like this...
This guy comes in and he does at least once a week, sometimes he doesn't have money, so he pays me the next time he comes in. Sometimes he says he doesn't know when he will have any money. This guy on Friday had the gull to request me to give him free food, and a soda cup... he hadn't paid me back for Monday, nor did he make an attempt to bring it up... and he was bossing me like I was his maid or I SHOULD do it for him. YOu know he is always clean, and always pretty good, but he is bossy, and he hit a nerve with me on Friday. So he is so OK to go and get a job, but instead he talks his talk and gets his way... many people I know have dealt with this guy and they tried to warn me. So I have been conned;)
OH well, I am to concentrate on the people who really need my help now, right.
Put your old jackets and blankies you don't use in your car, when you are riding around and aware that you have something to help someone, then you will be amazed on how many you see that need you and your help.


(edit::::) I need to add that I have more good experiences with the homeless than bad. They ask if they can do anything to earn the money or the food I give.) I just wanted to let you know that it isn't all bad;)

Sadly common sense doesn't seem to play a role in many political decisions. This is a perfect example.

NK, is your comment tongue in cheek or serious? Its hard to tell?

In a more simple world that comment may hold true. But sadly in the world we live in it is far from that easy for many people.

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Originally Posted by Skell

NK, is your comment tongue in cheek or serious? Its hard to tell??

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Just repeating what the righties say when it comes time to help our fellow downtrodden man. I forgot to mention "socialism' since it's the talking point of the day.

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Originally Posted by startover22

I put our extra winter clothes from years before in my car and if I see someone who may benefit from it, then i grab something and hand it to them with a sweet smile and a kind heart.

If my boss knew how many people I feed in a week, I could be fired.


OH well, I am to concentrate on the people who really need my help now, right.
Put your old jackets and blankies you dont use in your car, when you are riding around and aware that you have something to help someone, then you will be amazed on how many you see that need you and your help.

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Start:


Your awesome! :)
Great idea.



Tom:


Why would the state interfere with the church regarding this humanitarian mission?
What ever happened to that separation thingamajig?

NK you have not seen me argue against private initiatives to aid the homeless ; nor have you seen me say that "get a job" is their solution .You have never seen me argue against a government provided "safety net" .

So your comments do not apply ;except the one about socialism .
I have illustrated in this posting the weakness of relying on the nanny state .The homeless in NY in this instance are far better served by private initiative than the government.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Being homeless is a choice! If they would work and get a job instead of relying on handouts then they could support themselves.

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Now I am totally convinced you don't have a conscience about certain things. If you think being homeless is a choice, boy are you dead wrong there buddy. No one wants to lose their job, be unable to pay mortgage or rent, have their electricity and water turned off for nonpayment. No one consciously chooses to have these unfortunate things happen to them. No one wants to be homeless, believe me.

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment. What would happen to you should you not have a job and steady income and be able to pay your rent/mortgage payment and buy food and electricity for your family (should you have a family that is). You would ask your friends/families to help you out. What if you had no family to let you stay at their home until you got back on your feet financially? What if your friends said no thank you, I can't help you or let you stay at my home. What would you do? You would go homeless, that's what through no fault of your own.

Jobs are getting scarcer and scarcer to find in this country and if the homeless person could get a job - don't you think they'd jump at the chance to get a job? Of course they would. You need to remember "there but for the grace of God, it could be me homeless".

Starty - I am so glad you have a conscience and are helping as much as you can. I am sure you sleep better at night because of your caring for your fellow man. My hat's off to you.

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Originally Posted by twinkiedooter

Now I am totally convinced you don't have a conscience about certain things.

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You fail at comprehension.

I understand that NK was being sarcastic when he wrote that and it doesn't reflect his own opinion.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Just repeating what the righties say when it comes time to help our fellow downtrodden man. I forgot to mention "socialism' since it's the talking point of the day.

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You mean just repeating what is sometimes said by people of all walks. Those nasty "righties" are probably in the churches that NYC shut down. If they did that in our extremely conservative city the homeless would have nowhere to sleep because virtually all of the beds, meals and clothing for the homeless are provided by nasty "righties" through church and parachurch ministries such as Citychurch, Faith City Ministries and the Salvation Army. While the left talks a good talk and works to get government to take care of everyone those mean old "righties" are out there helping with their own time and money.

One side emphasises the need for a robust and competitive economy to make life better for the majority - the trickle down effect, while the other believes it's the responsibility of the governments to more evenly distribute the benefits of economic wealth. In other words, not just leave it up to individuals and institutions to take care of those in need who genuinely can't do more to help themselves.

Both have good intentions. Based on personal experience, I favour a balance of both - difficult though it is to get that right. Had it not been the fact I live in what's considered a welfare state, my family home may have been lost at a few critical, yet relatively short moments of need. At the same time, I can't stand being dependent on the government so naturally worked towards freeing myself of a lot of it's unwanted side-effects... although I couldn't have achieved that without a lot of support from family, friends, a postiive work environment and a partner who genuinely cares about me, so I know I've been very lucky.

Because I know what it can be like to fear losing your home, I have no hesitation agreeing to pay additional taxes to help reduce the level of poverty in our country. I only wish we could do more. I certainly wouldn't be happy knowing people were needlessly freezing in the streets if something could have been done to prevent that. Politics gets pushed aside at that point, and you simply open a few doors and give them a blanket.

Yeah it is crazy. I work in a University cafeteria and we throw away tons of butter because they put out a bowl of about 4 lbs every morning for bagels and they have to throw it away every 3 hrs.
Yet they forgot to refrigerate some for two days when it was delivered and they put that in the cooler.
We are no longer allowed to take food home because they don't want to be liable if we get sick but it would be just as easy to get sick eating it there the way they leave food out sometimes and follow the rules other times.
Also the utility companies are allowed to shut our utilities off in the middle of winter now. They say with a doctors excuse they aren't allowed, BUT the excuse must say that you need electric or gas for your medical problem. So if you freeze, cramp up, get frostbite easily or have arthritis that is not good enough.
You have to be on a machine like dialysis or oxygen or you have to have meds that have to be refrigerated.

The wastefulness drives me crazy and people only worry about being sued rather than helping as speechless said the righties are the ones helping while the lefties are busy making up new laws to stop them.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You fail at comprehension.

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You fail at being scarcastic.

The fact you often need to have a near death experience to get help is beyond me. It's the same here... you have to be so down trodden you can't feed yourself before you're considered deserving of help... at which point you're too weak to ask for help.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Being homeless is a choice! If they would work and get a job instead of relying on handouts then they could support themselves.

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This certainly didn't sound scarcastic to me (and to other members here also).

Yeah it is a choice to be out there freezing and nowhere to live.
Most homeless have mental problems that prevent them from working. Many homeless are former soldiers suffering from post tramatic stress and nobody wants them because of it.
Then too, take a person that had a good job and a roof over their head and they were living on a thousand dollars a month.
Then they get laid off and can't afford their rent and their phone.
Can't find a job and find themselves homeless.
Now they are homeless and do not have a place to bath or even change clothes and clean up, no phone, no address, no friends, no family.
HOW are they suppose to get a job when they have no way to get to a job to apply and no phone and no address to put on the application?

I don't understand the city rule, it doesn't make any sense to me. Why must a faith-based facility be open five days a week, not, say, four? Or two? Is the facility only faith-based because it's in a church? Can non-faith-based facilities be selective about their hours? Seems like government at it's best, to me. It's great the city says they have beds to accommodate the people who will be displaced, but it still makes no sense.

Someone mentioned food dontation to the homeless - the reason restaurants and grocery stores can't dontate "old food" (stuff past it's expiration date) is because the FDA says it's not safe to consume. Will day-old bread hurt you? No, probably not, and I'd rather see it go to someone who is hungry than to the rats around a dumpster, but if we feed expired food to the homeless on purpose, we are saying they are worth less than people with homes. I have a home, so it's not OK for me to eat day-oold cheese, but the homeless guy, well, who cares if he gets sick? That's the reasoning behind it, and to a point, I understand.

And, inthebox, this is the second thread you've mentioned separation of church and state. This is the second time I'll ask you - what does this have to do with separation of church and state?

A lady yesterday asked if I had any left overs, I said, I am sorry I just took it to the trash. She said... "wheres the dumpster?" I was like, no way are you going to the dumpster on my account. I gave her what I could find that didn't need cooking (as we were closed) Geeze, everyone just do what you can. This wouldn't be an issue if we ALL did. I know some of you think I just live in that dream world where one person can change the world... but seriously if you change one, then you have a pretty good start;) If we split the world in half and the other half help the half that needs it, then we can change the world. It is just a five minute inconvenience to us and we still choose not to do it. I just don't get it.

One day last week I was on the train. This homeless guy was walking through the train begging for money to buy food because he was hungry.

I had just came from my doctor appointment at the hospital and brought food from the cafeteria because I was hungry but I hurry to the train to get home. I never touch the food because I was going eat it when I got home.

After I saw the guy begging for money, I told him he can have my food and it was untouch. He told it and thank me. Don't you know my stop came and he got off the same train stop and threw it in the garage. I was livid because I could've ate it.

Ya, there are people that do that Liz... but others don't. So your food and thoughfulness were wasted... the next guy or girl may be a little more thankful for what you do. Don't be so discouraged, you did the right thing and next time if you think your inconvenience isn't worth it then it is up to you to make that choice. Please keep trying. I believe in you and others that keep on giving. It will come back to you in more ways than one. PLUS it makes you a good person and we could use a few like you here on earth.

Check out the restrictions on almost all food pantries . No home made pies casseroles ;not even holiday cookies... everything in original packing . To cook for the homeless your facility and equipment ,like ovens countertops ,must be up to restaurant code(often meaning all stainless steel equipment .Smaller pantries with less resources often are shut down by the state. Many won't accept wild game that was hunted ;even though in my area there is an overpopulation of deer ;wild turkey ,goose etc.(don't knock it until you've tried it. If I was homeless I would never go hungry)... even though many hunters are willing to donate their kill.

Saph. My work at the cafeteria ,while attending college propelled me indirectly to the career path I took. I started as a dishwasher ;became a cook ,and eventually "student manager" in charge of scheduling student workers .

Thankfully then the rules were less restrictive . My meals were part of the perks so long as I lived off campus... (I rented a roach and mouse infested room for $100/month ) . I would not have been able to complete college without the income .
I almost remained with the food service company after graduation but they could not find a position for me that met my requirements (at that time I wanted to continue on and get my Masters so I wanted to remain in a college environment ). I switched to the food manufacturing and nutritional supplement industry. The rest is history.

It is amazing what one or two lawsuits can do.
AND it's amazing how scared we are of those.
People can't farkin survive if they freeze and starve to death... don't they understand it? Crap!

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

And, inthebox, this is the second thread you've mentioned separation of church and state. This is the second time I'll ask you - what does this have to do with separation of church and state?

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If one of the church's mission is to feed the hungry, cloth the naked and shelter the homeless, how can the gov interfere with this?

What does it matter to some gov beaurocrat sitting behind the desk whether a church takes in homeless 5 or 7 days a week?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

If one of the church's mission is to feed the hungry, cloth the naked and shelter the homeless, how can the gov interfere with this?

What does it matter to some gov beaurocrat sitting behind the desk whether or not a church takes in homeless 5 or 7 days a week?

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On the other hand, I'm sure they wouldn't mind them offering asylum to illegal immigrants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

If one of the church's mission is to feed the hungry, cloth the naked and shelter the homeless, how can the gov interfere with this?

What does it matter to some gov beaurocrat sitting behind the desk whether or not a church takes in homeless 5 or 7 days a week?

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The church can still do those things, they just have to do them according to the city law. Beyond that, this article:

CANOE -- CNEWS - World: N.Y. churches told not to shelter homeless

Says this:

"On Saturday, the city Department of Homeless Services said there is plenty of space at other shelters to accept all those who have been sleeping in the churches. The spaces include four new faith-based sites where the number of beds combined with availability amounts to a greater total number of nights for people to stay, said Homeless Services spokeswoman Heather Janik.

There are now about 250 beds in churches, mosques and synagogues. They're close to drop-in centres where people receive other services, including food, Janik said.

"This city is investing more than ever to make sure people have a place to lay their heads at night," she said, adding the number of faith-based and other types of shelter beds will increase by 50 per cent in the next fiscal year to more than 1,000."

The city isn't shutting them down because they are faith-based, they are shutting them down because they aren't open according to the code set forth by the city. For the record, I don't think it matters how many nights a shelter is open, but perhaps there is a reason the city has instituted this rule. But it isn't a violation of the separation of church and state.

I have noticed for the past few weeks that the deer that have been killed by vehicles on the stretch of 4 lane highway I drive every day have been picked up within one day. It seems that the state and county road crews are not picking up the dead deer - that the natives here in Ohio are picking them up from the side of the road and taking them home to eat. Apparently you don't have to be homeless to be hungry up here in no-job-land-of-the-rust-belt. I must have counted at least 20 deer so far in the past few weeks alone that have disappeared from the side of the road. I find they disappear within 12 hours or less. Last year the deer just stayed at the side of the road and rotted for weeks and weeks at a time.

Just shows you that at least the poor dead deer are feeding someone who is hungry. For America to resort to road kill for something to eat is to me rather disturbing in itself. The jobless people here can't find jobs as there are no jobs in the newspapers to speak of. It's going to be a long, cold, hard winter this year. God help us.

Why waste good road kill ? I like Ted Nugent's attitude about it... kill it then grill it. Venison prepared properly is luxury dining in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Why waste good road kill ? I like Ted Nugent's attitude about it ....kill it then grill it. Venison prepared properly is luxury dining in my opinion.

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I didn't mean that eating road kill was bad. What I meant was the fact why are Americans resorting to eating road kill. If you like venison that much, just cruise the highways over in Ohio for some fresh road kill. We've got plenty of it for the taking.