The righteous left has a conniption fit over the alleged Bush "theocracy." The spiteful criticisms of "right-wing evangelical neocons" have been abundant on these pages. An alleged cross (or you can call it a bookcase) in a Huckabee ad stirred up all kinds of outrage.

You know what, I'm more than a little concerned with the Obamas disturbing comments and the portrayal of Barack "Vogue cover model, Esquire best dressed, best-selling author, Grammy winner, Harvard Law Review editor, master of the laws that govern the universe" Obama - the man who "sends a thrill up" Chris Matthews' leg - as some kind of savior. No?

Reuters has a nice photo of Michelle the Madonna, Newsweek changed their cover photo of Obama at the last minute this week to a more saintly image (reportedly at the behest of the editor's wife), and this piece of art that was displayed at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/obamahalo.jpg

Surely you've all heard about Michelle's "broken souls" remarks:

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That is why I am here, because Barack Obama is the only person in this who understands that. That before we can work on the problems, we have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation...

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To some Obama supporters that was an "amazing speech," not cause for concern. In his "Wellsleyan" speech on Sunday Obama said, "our individual salvation depends on collective salvation."

I find the remarks and the mania disturbing. It's not the government's role to heal our "broken" souls and my salvation is not dependent on Obama's collectivist gospel. It is government's job to ensure domestic tranquility and provide for the common defense, isn't it? Or at least it was while you were whining about Bush... did that change with Obama?

Not sure what your point is.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Not sure what your point is.

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If you try you might even find a question in there.

Oh I see. The answer is no. I believe that they were talking about individuals changing their personal outlook, perhaps moving from a consumerist/materialistic mindthink to getting back to family.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Oh I see. The answer is no. I believe that they were talking about individuals changing their personal outlook, perhaps moving from a consumerist/materialistic mindthink to getting back to family.

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Obama was obviously speaking against consumerism and for his collectivist society - while dressed impeccably after eating some expensive arugula from the Whole Foods Market and before returning to his $1.6 million mansion - but the message is for the "salvation of the nation." Michelle's quote in more context:

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In 2008, we are still a nation that is too divided. We live in isolation, and because of that isolation, we fear one another. We don't know our neighbors, we don't talk, we believe our pain is our own. We don't realize that the struggles and challenges of all of us are the same. We are too isolated. And we are still a nation that is still too cynical. We look at it as "them" and "they" as opposed to "us". We don't engage because we are still too cynical.. .

Americans are not in debt because they live frivolously but because someone got sick. Even with insurance, the deductibles and the premiums are so high that people are still putting medications and treatments on credit cards. And they can't get out from under. I could go on and on, but this is how we're living, people, in 2008.

And things have gotten progressively worse throughout my lifetime, through Democratic and Republican administrations, it hasn't gotten better for regular folks.. .

We have lost the understanding that in a democracy, we have a mutual obligation to one another -- that we cannot measure the greatness of our society by the strongest and richest of us, but we have to measure our greatness by the least of these. That we have to compromise and sacrifice for one another in order to get things done. That is why I am here, because Barack Obama is the only person in this who understands that. That before we can work on the problems, we have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation.

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To her, he is obviously the "savior of the nation" and only Obama understands the problems and the need to fix our broken souls in order to "heal" the country.

Speech thanks for that Washington post article That made me have even more respect for Senator Obama!! I knew you were a closet Obama supporter!!

I agree with Spit. I like and agree the content of that quote.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

I'm more than a little concerned

....

I find the remarks and the mania disturbing.

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I know how hard this must be for you. Perhaps talk therapy would help.

She needs to be speaking from the pulpit at the wonderful "Church" they have attended proudly, for over 20 years now.

What she said is far better than ANYTHING else I've heard shouted from that "so called" Church Pulpit.

Does someone, anyone, have audio of ANYTHING from that Pulpit that is not racially dividing, openly anti white and/or anti Jew?

I thought Rev. Wright was bad enough, now I've heard the Rev. Moss's comments as well as those of the visiting Catholic Priest, and both were truly disgusting to say the least.

No wonder this country still has so many problems between the races. It is bad enough for a young person, having to deal with the prejudices of their parents or grandparents but to hear this crap, where they go to Church, to learn about God, and loving thy neighbor, and about salvation is disgraceful to say the least.

Yet, no major TV news media, besides FOX, will even report this stuff.

You do? In case anyone missed the quote:

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Obama analyzed and integrated Einstein's theory of relativity, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, as well as the concept of curved space as an alternative to gravity, for a Law Review article that Tribe wrote titled, "The Curvature of Constitutional Space."

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Perhaps the author should have consulted Obama, the concept of curved space is covered in Einstein's theory of relativity.

When I'm not being concerned about this sudden switch by the left to being in favor of a spiritual Messiah for president, I'm laughing at how they now approve of government being in the business of salvation and soul fixing... while protesting Intelligent Design in schools, the 10 commandments on government property and faith based initiatives. You guy's standards are awfully confusing...

Got to keep peeling the onion. For every hosanna we hear about his new age campaign we get reminders of the places he can't disown .

YouTube - Obama's Church: Why Hillary Cried - Father Michael Pfleger

By the way he preemptively threw this priest ;who he had also identified as a spiritual mentor ,under the bus . More road kill !

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She needs to be speaking from the pulpit at the wonderful "Church" they have attended proudly, for over 20 years now.

What she said is far better than ANYTHING else I've heard shouted from that "so called" Church Pulpit.

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Rumor has it that there is indeed a video of her ranting against Whitey from the pulpit. Purportedly it is being held back for the October Surprise.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

When I'm not being concerned about this sudden switch by the left to being in favor of a spiritual Messiah for president.

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No one is calling him a 'spiritual Messiah' - just you and your mudracking.

MotherJones Blog: Barack Obama's Messiah Complex

Farrakhan Praises Obama as 'Hope of Entire World' - America's Election HQ

Under God: Is Obama a (or the) Messiah? - On Faith at washingtonpost.com

Me I think he's more like PT Barnum.

Oh I see. Well those opinion pieces must be correct - he is the second coming of christ, we're all saved! It's a win-win!

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

No one is calling him a 'spiritual Messiah' - just you and your mudracking.

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You're a riot, NK. I'm not sure what mudracking is, but after 7 1/2 years of nonstop hatred toward Bush and all things Republican I'm having a blast watching the Dems out "mud rake" each other.

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Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

I know how hard this must be for you. Perhaps talk therapy would help.

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Very nice OG, but my need for therapy is far, far, far, far, far less over Obamamania than the poor, deluded broken souls suffering from BDS. :D

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Oh I see. Well those opinion pieces must be correct - he is the second coming of christ, we're all saved! It's a win-win!

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Your post was practically correct, you just omitted the needed "anti" immediately following
The word of, and connected to the word christ.

He's much closer the description of that entity, than he is to Christ.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Me I think he's more like PT Barnum.

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I see a lot of Jonas Nightingale in him.

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Originally Posted by progunr

Your post was practically correct, you just omitted the needed "anti" immediately following
the word of, and connected to the word christ.

He's much closer the the description of that entity, than he is to Christ.

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So there are people waging genocide in this world, serial killers wearing their victims' skin for kicks and you believe that Barack Obama is the anti-christ as professed in the bible? What leads you to believe this?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So there are people waging genocide in this world, serial killers wearing their victims' skin for kicks and you believe that Barack Obama is the anti-christ as professed in the bible? What leads you to believe this?

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What I said was that he comes much closer to fitting the description of that entity, than he does to fitting the descriptions of Christ.

I myself don't believe he is ether one.

I believe he is a politician, who gained his popularity by being a member of the radical black community. While he climbed his political ladder, using these associates, and his separatist church as tools to gain notability in the radical black community. It worked very well for him.

Now though, in his quest to climb to the very top, he can no longer appeal only to his black separatist base, he has to try to appeal to the entire Country, and this is where all his problems come to light.

Who is saying he is christ or comes close to him anyway? That's just nonsense.

He seems to appeal to a great deal of people. We'll see come election I guess.

I think it is so funny that the only thing that people have against Obama is what his rev said. White people get so threatened when a black person speaks the truth. It's so sad that the only argument you have against Obama are the words of someone who is NOT Obama. But he sat in that church for 20 years.

I have listened to my grand parents say some of the most racist things for 30 years and by your logic I should be the most racist person on this earth. And much to my grandparents dismay I have a lot of black friends (best friend since I was 4 is black). I love my grandparents and respect them more then Obama does his Rev. so if I can separate good teachings from bad what makes you think Obama can not?

I think he is very good at separating things... and people.

If he so disagreed with this stuff, why did he stay there for over 20 years?

Churches are not like grandparents, you get to pick your church.

The fact that he picked this one speaks volumes about his personal convictions.

As I said, the young dealing with ignorant grandparents, or even parents, should be enough of a challenge for them. Obama's children have listened to these racial rants ALL of their lives, and he and his wife have allowed it to happen.

They don't even see anything wrong with belonging to this so called Church.

It may not be a problem for you, or his supporters, but I do believe it is, and will be, a problem for the rest of our Nation.

Progunr if Obama gets elected what do you think he will do to the nation? Everyone I talk to says he will be bad for the nation but no one will tell me why. So please tell me what the anti-christ is going to do to this nation?

What I believe he would do is move this nation ever so closer to the socialistic values he believes in.

He will tax us into a real depression, he will grow the government, expand entitlements and government programs, attempt to socialize our heath system, he will attempt to negotiate and appease the terrorist leaders, and those are just the obvious things he has expressed himself.

What he has said is bad enough, what may be on his mind, that has not been said, is even more frightening.

Progunr I respect that answer most people just say "i don't like him" and that's all I get. If a socialized health care system bring Americans health care I am for it. I can understand why people wouldn't want the leader of America to sit and try to talk to terrorist leaders but has not talking to them worked? Now I am not gullible so I really don't think trying to reason with a terrorist is going to work but nothing else has worked so far.

I think there should be more government programs to help families out. I don't have any kids but if I did it's not like my fiancée or I could stay home with the kid we would have to put out more then $200.00 a week for day care so we could both work and try to live some what comfortably. If we can spend BILLIONS on a war for oil then surely we could have put someone money into helping out American families to get ahead.

Are you really for socialized health care?

Are you THAT impressed with the way our government manages things?

Do you really trust the government to pick your doctor, and decide if your illness is worth spending money on, or that it is more cost effective to just let you die?

What gives you the idea that it is my responsibility to donate to helping you have and raise your children?

It is that mindset that is destroying our country. If the government did not take care of all the people who can't afford to have and raise children, then we would not have so many people having them, when they can't afford it.

Having and raising children should not be a right, guaranteed to you by my tax dollars but thanks to our Government, it is now.

Having and raising children is a responsibility, that you should be personally responsible for. The socialistic view that the government exists to take care of everyone is just wrong, in my opinion of course.

While I do agree, we waste far too much money on foreign lands and problems, that should be devoted to our own nation, that again is a problem with our government and the idea that we are responsible for everyone, and no one is responsible for themselves.

Finally, it is not the governments responsibility to help you get ahead, it is yours. The socialistic policies that have crept into our nation have all but eliminated any personal responsibility. The number of people who actually believe that it is the job of the government to provide for them everything they want or need is disturbing and will eventually lead to the downfall of our nation if we don't put a stop to it.

There you have my conservative view.

I do not intend to convince you, just to perhaps enlighten you.

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

I think it is so funny that the only thing that people have against Obama is what his rev said. White people get so threatened when a black person speaks the truth. It's so sad that the only argument you have against Obama are the words of someone who is NOT Obama. But he sat in that church for 20 years.

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I guess you haven't been paying attention, we've brought out many concerns that have nothing to do with his pastor - his record, his association with unrepentant terrorists and other criminals, his outrageous comments, his thin skin, his inexperience and on and on. His "mentor" Wright was a bonus.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Who is saying he is christ or comes close to him anyway? That's just nonsense.

He seems to appeal to a great deal of people. We'll see come election I guess.

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Who? If they haven't called him that they've described him as such. I've already pointed out his wife has said he is "the only one" who understands our problems and our broken souls. Andrew Sullivan paints a shamanistic portrait of the man:

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At its best, the Obama candidacy is about ending a war—not so much the war in Iraq, which now has a mo­mentum that will propel the occupation into the next decade—but the war within America that has prevailed since Vietnam and that shows dangerous signs of intensifying, a nonviolent civil war that has crippled America at the very time the world needs it most. It is a war about war—and about culture and about religion and about race. And in that war, Obama—and Obama alone—offers the possibility of a truce.

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David Ehrenstein describes him as the 'Magic Negro':

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But the same can't be said of most white Americans, whose desire for a noble, healing Negro hasn't faded. That's where Obama comes in... Like a comic-book superhero, Obama is there to help, out of the sheer goodness of a heart we need not know or understand. For as with all Magic Negroes, the less real he seems, the more desirable he becomes. If he were real, white America couldn't project all its fantasies of curative black benevolence on him."

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Obama is better than civil rights:

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[I]t is beyond debate that an Obama win in 2008 would be by far the best thing that has happened to African-Americans, and to race relations, in more than 50 years.

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Walter Shapiro at Salon.com reports that "Paul Tewes, Obama's Iowa coordinator, marveled, "It is something I've never seen before in politics. After people hear him speak, they say that they feel at peace."

People are swooning all over the man (and that doesn't even include his fainters in the audience):

“He walks into a room and you want to follow him somewhere, anywhere.” —actor George Clooney

“I’ll do whatever he says to do. I’ll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear.” —actress Halle Berry

“This young man is the hope of the entire world that America will change and be made better. This young man is capturing audiences of black and brown and red and yellow. If you look at Barack Obama’s audiences and look at the effect of his words, those people are being transformed… A black man with a white mother became a savior to us. A black man with a white mother could turn out to be one who can lift America from her fall.” —Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan

And the kicker that would have had a Republican, any Republican, laughed out of the country or hung from the highest tree, by Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Ill as reported in the NY Times:

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"I would characterize the Senate race as being a race where Obama was, let's say, blessed and highly favored," Mr. Rush said, chuckling. "That's not routine.

There's something else going on."

What was he suggesting?

"I think that Obama, his election to the Senate, was divinely ordered," Mr. Rush said, all other explanations failing. "I'm a preacher and a pastor; I know that that was God's plan. Obama has certain qualities that—I think he is being used for some purpose. I really believe that."

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Not to mention, he sends a thrill up Chris Matthews' leg. I told you I come prepared.

Speech,

I agree with you. And speaking of secular messiah do you see how people gobble him and his so called charismatic speeches up? Wait till someone comes on the scene with some "power" behind the dazzling words. And the WHOLE world will be in awe of him. This is but a glimpse of what is to come. ( sorry didn't mean to change the thread topic.. just my thoughts.)

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Originally Posted by classyT

Speech,

I agree with you. and speaking of secular messiah do you see how people gobble him and his so called charasmatic speeches up? Wait till someone comes on the scene with some "power" behind the dazzling words. and the WHOLE world will be in awe of him. This is but a glimpse of what is to come. ( sorry didn't mean to change the thread topic..just my thoughts.)

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We change the subject all the time so you fit right in :) Actually though it fits right in with the subject, the 'Messiah' is much more of an empty suit than his worshipers realize.

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Originally Posted by classyT

and speaking of secular messiah do you see how people gobble him and his so called charasmatic speeches up?

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I saw that gig twice already as voted by the Bible Belt states. His name? George Walker Bush.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

We change the subject all the time so you fit right in :) Actually though it fits right in with the subject, the 'Messiah' is much more of an empty suit than his worshipers realize.

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Steve, stop capitalizing the word "messiah" in posts that you actually mean to vilify Obama. I doubt seriously that Obama's any more anointed than other candidates, past or present. There's a Jewish proverb, "When the Moshiach comes, all the sick will be healed; only a fool stays a fool."

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

I saw that gig twice already. His name, George Walker Bush.

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Wow Bobby, you think GW gives charismatic speeches? Wonders never cease :D

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Wow Bobby, you think GW gives charismatic speeches? Wonders never cease :D

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Oh! No! I didn't say I thought he was a good communicator, I'm implying that Republicans fell in love with him. And it's bitter and bad when the public is wrong. :)

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

Progunr I respect that answer most people just say "i don't like him" and thats all i get. If a socialized health care system bring Americans health care i am for it. I can understand why people wouldn't want the leader of America to sit and try to talk to terrorist leaders but has not talking to them worked? Now I am not gullible so I really don't think trying to reason with a terrorist is going to work but nothing else has worked so far.

I think there should be more government programs to help families out. I don't have any kids but if I did it's not like my fiancee or I could stay home with the kid we would have to put out more then $200.00 a week for day care so we could both work and try to live some what comfortably. If we can spend BILLIONS on a war for oil then surely we could have put someone money into helping out American families to get ahead.

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Yup, Obama's universal healthcare is a good thing... NOT


Angry Illinois veterans sneer at VA `snow job' | U.S. Senator Barack Obama


"Durbin noted that veterans have long felt betrayed by the VA--and they have heard promises of reform before. But he said that both senators would be aggressive in making sure the VA follows through. He noted that Obama holds a seat on the Senate's Veterans' Affairs Committee and Durbin on the powerful Appropriations Committee"



Durbin, Obama want VA to explain deaths at Marion hospital - Boston.com

"The most recent revelation that (Veterans Affairs Medical Center) employed a surgeon who had been barred from practicing in another state casts doubt on the adequacy of the VA's system of credentialing and quality control," the letter said"


Maybe if the Democrats allow the taxpayor to keep more of their hard earned money, rather than raising tax rates, they could afford health insurance or put that money into a health savings account.



And this war for oil thing, maybe if the Democratic congress allows us to drill for our own oil, or use more nuclear energy, maybe Middle east oil would not be a national security matter.

The fact that you just used a Wayne's World line makes anything you have to say to me worthless.

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Everyone I talk to says he will be bad for the nation but no one will tell me why.

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Along with the points othrs have made to this question ;even if I agreed with his positions I would havesecond thoughts about supporting anyone who's total experience consists of a few years in the Ill . Legislature and Senate ;and a cup of coffee in the US Senate. Don't forget ;he began running for the Presidency almost the day he began his gig in the US Senate and has spent little time there after his orientation.

Right now John McCain is seriously considering an up and coming rising star in the Republican party for Veep;Bobby Jindal ,Governor of Louisiana. I would advise him to turn it down if offered because he has not been around long enough to demonstate an ability to do the job. I would like first to see his reforms in the State come to fruation before he moves on .

That is the problem with Obama. He never sticks around to build a record worthy of pointing to . Perhaps that is why people look elsewhere to get a measure of the man.

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

The fact that you just used a Wayne's World line makes anything you have to say to me worthless.

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Spit, I have no idea what you're referring to.

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Originally Posted by spitvenom

The fact that you just used a Wayne's World line makes anything you have to say to me worthless.

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Not :D

Okay stick your head in the sand, and forget the actual links. That is the problem with Obama, all talk, and an eloquent talker at that. For a lot of people that is enough to convince them, but for the presidency you have to look past all the empty feel good rhetoric and examine and consider the details.


Change of Subject - Observations, reports, tips, referrals and tirades | Chicago Tribune | Blog


If "present" sounds wimpy, that's because it sometimes is. In many cases, according to Paul Green, head of Roosevelt University's School of Public Policy and a longtime student of Illinois' byzantine legislative process, lawmakers who anticipate a tough re-election challenge will vote "present" on a controversial bill they oppose so as not to give their prospective opponents a good club to bash them with.

Obama, however, was in a safe district and never faced a serious challenge for his legislative seat. [****He had no need to shy from hard-line stands on gun control and abortion rights.******] He actually took such stands frequently and is now highly praised by advocates for both causes.

Why would he then vote "present" instead of a resounding "no" on certain bills advanced by lawmakers opposed to abortion rights?


*****--- because Obama had his eye at the presidency from the beginning and knows that his hard line left wing ideology might play well in Chicago, but not among moderates and independents.