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It appears that more and more voters (about half) in different states are now saying they would not vote for Obama in November if he becomes the eventual nominee. Um, I wonder why that is? Is he losing his once popular touch on people or are people finally seeing through him to see the real him they don't like?
ABC News: Class Action: Money, Not Race Drives Vote
No, he has been running about 1/2 in many of the states. This is merely political rant of Hiliary supporters who don't want to admit they will lose.
Of course McCain could always pick Hilary as his running mate
Hello again, sky:
Losing support while winning the race... Hmmmm... that's an interesting spin...
excon
Really?
Obama takes superdelegate lead on eve of expected loss - CNN.com
.Quote:
Clinton currently trails Obama across all fronts -- superdelegates, pledged delegates and the popular vote, according to CNN's latest estimates.
Obama leads in the race for superdelegates, 277 to Clinton's 273, and he's ahead in the overall delegate count, 1,869 to 1,697
Gee Sky your going to be bitterly disappointed when you wake up one morning next week and realise that Hillary has lost, and has been losing for a long long time now. No spin you put on it is going to change that! Even her own advisers realise its all but over.
No spin. Just showing you what the media is saying after interviewing voters. It is interesting though as no one here has yet addressed why half or more of some state's voters would not vote for him in November if he becomes the nominee. Afraid to make an assumption? Does anyone have the answer to THAT question? It's looking better and better for McCain you know!Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
Couldn't you say the same thing about Hillary Skygem? Or McCain?
Go to an Obama rally, Sky. I dare you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyGem
You're good for the assumptions, I'll stick to the facts. It bears pointing out in the primary elections that those with an education, time and time again, vote for Obama. BTW a refrigerator could run against McCain. ;)
And now Obama's starting to gain ground nationally among whites, women, and the less educated. Snap, snap, snap, "Sky."
Key Clinton Constituencies Moving Toward Obama
Hey, "Bab", You never could answer my question, which is why could half of the voters or more vote for McCain in November if Obama gets the nomination? I released this question asking for an "assumption" since we are not in November yet where the after the fact 'facts' could be analyzed. So, it is you who should "snap" up and listen to the question before offering a quick, shoot-from-the-hip type response. And Unity and Courage won't cut it... "snap!", "snap!!", "snap!!!" That's not what the nation is looking at right now, especially the blue-collar workers looking for secure jobs to keep food on their table for their family. Obama's empty words without a solid, concrete plan would not give him much of an edge among this group of voters. And blue-collar workers feel more secure with Hillary because Bill left this country in the Black financially and with Thousands of New Jobs before he left office. Can Obama say the same? Snap, snap to reality, "Babbles"! Like people are saying, he will lose much support if he is the eventual nominee. That much is already a foregone conclusion. And despite your feelings towards McCain, he is very much the candidate to beat in November and he is well-financed and with conservative issues that matter cropping up every day, re-igniting the conservative base, it continues to look good for him moment by moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
STLtoday - Will Obama sew up blue-collar vote?
Key Clinton Constituencies Moving Toward Obama
Quote:
Obama's latest gains have come from a broad spectrum of rank-and-file Democrats. At least for now, he has expanded his position as the preferred candidate of men, young adults, and highly educated Democrats, and has erased Clinton's advantages with most of her prior core constituency groups, including women, the less well-educated, and whites.
Hello:
There was a concerted effort by the right wing to make Hillary the democratic nominee. That's because they think they can beat her, and they don't think they can beat Obama.
It's finally becoming clear that YOU, Sky Gem, are behind that effort. It's one of the limprod's deals, isn't it? I applaud you guys for your efforts... However, it is for naught...
We've had enough of the right... More than enough... Obama is going to be the next pres and whomever he chooses as his VP will be the one after him...
I don't think you realize the amount of damage the neocons did. You will soon, though.
excon
Ex you do not understand . The goal of promoting Evita's campaign is to "bloody " Obama because until recently he was getting a free pass. The Democrats certainly did not vett him until it was way too late; and McCain was sending signals that he would not be aggressive during the general campaign.
But we see Obama as the weaker candidate because he is ideologically extreme. Also truth be told ;if there is to be a Democrat President I'd just as soon have one who is closer to reality regarding foreign policy.
Obama is arrogant . He thinks that traditional Democrat states don't matter. He has lost in all the significant "blue" states . Potentially he could pick off some "red "states especially if McCain continues to this his base ;but the truth is that as always; the election will be determined by how the center votes.
He has told the center that they are gun totin God clinging bitter people . Over the weekend he gave us his best Jimmy Carter impersonation telling us that we eat too much;drive too ,much ,and keep our homes too hot in the summer/cold in the winter .Then he expanded the "Kerry Global Test " saying that we would not meet international approval if we continued our bad habits . That may have played well in liberal Oregon ;but in flyover country it did not.
There is a lot of truth in what SkyGem posted . Exit polls from Kentucky showed that two-thirds of democrat voters said they would rather vote Republican or not at all than vote for Obama .
Clinton cleans up in Ky. - The Denver Post
That is a telling problem Obama has . Evita should fight on through the convention ! I want them both bloodied and battered .
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyGem
Your premise is based on primary data when we currently have two Democrats versus a Republican, but come November the reality is that it is one Democrat versus a Republican. Oh! How I do weep for our country's educational system!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyGem
You didn't "release" a question. You asked a question based on an assumption. That's shooting blanks hoping to hit a moving target. Since when is "unity" and "courage" a bad thing? That's sounds very divisive like racism "Sky." Don't we have enough division in the country already? When Hillary doesn't win the nomination fairly, are the Clinton's really self-serving enough to push for more divisions??
Bill, a Democrat, IMO had a better tenure than Dubya. That's not so difficult when the outgoing president has polled some of the lowest approval ratings ever. Obama does need to address a number of 5-7 states in that mid-east region on the blue collar issue and he will. All candidates normally backtrack after winning the nomination and shore up states where they didn't fair as well. And it's not empty words that is the problem, it's the empty heads that can't comprehend the words.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyGem
You do realize how out of sorts you continue to sound in these threads?? I'm thankful that the far majority of Clinton supporters are reasonable and will support Obama come November. It's a foregone conclusion that you will not vote for Obama. That's OK with me. I don't get worked up over a insignificant temper tantrum here and there. Back in 2000, McCain's supporters by fifty percent in some primary polls claimed they would not vote for Dubya... guess what happened? They did and Bush won. BTW McCain's going to be fit for retirement by middle of next year after losing another presidential election. Sky, enjoy Starbucks!! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyGem
What are his ideological 'extreme' views?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Your version of reality about foreign policy differs widely from the most U.S. citizens.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
It's all so true. The US is obese and too reliant on oil for their large SUVs.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Of course you do, that helps you achieve *your* goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Extreme views
NPR: Obama Ranked Most Liberal Senator in 2007
The last time an extreme liberal was nominated he barely won his own state and lost 49 .
When Obama tells us that we can't continue to eat too much;drive too much ;keep our homes at a comfortable temperature America Shouts out YES WE CAN
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tom, are you suggesting that Obama will lose 49 states to McCain or that he will just lose the election?? I want you on record.
So because they applied the "most liberal" label to him that makes his views "extreme"? LOL!
From your article:
Quote:
But the liberal ranking also comes after a prominent British magazine labeled Obama the ideal "conservative" candidate for America, and after several prominent conservative pundits have tossed bouquets his way.
For what it's worth Bobby ;I cannot make a prediction because the Republicans are not running their best . I think like recent elections the vote will reflect an almost even divide and whoever wins will win it close with a few swing states up for grab.
It would take Ronald Reagan resurrecting from the dead. Come November if the Clinton's divisive actions, as displayed in this primary thus far hasn't destroyed the Democratic party, and our nation's will to vote, McCain will lose.
It's funny how outsiders are always telling us we need to mind our own business while sticking their nose in ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
As opposed to not allowing the American people the chance to see what's really behind the image of the Democratic contenders? It's quite satisfying to see the media's coronation of Obama didn't quite go the way they'd hoped... and that is a worthy goal.Quote:
Of course you do, that helps you achieve *your* goals.
I don't know what you're looking at but all seems to be going well for the guy. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
My how short your memory. It was just a few weeks ago you were asking the moderators to intervene on Obama's behalf. He may be ahead, but he's bruised pretty good. The media had hoped to slip him in under the radar - that's how Democrats win these days, Trojan horse campaigns - but now he's being scrutinized and has rightfully taken quite a few hits. I'll bet you remember them :DQuote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Just one point of interjection to clarify before your mistaken chronology of events from the Republican gospel is swallowed by the sheep. The Democratic party, being propelled by the media, had pretty much settled in on the coronation of Hillary Clinton long before Barack Obama became nationally recognized as a household name. When Barack became potent in the race the Clinton's all but presumed he was a flash in the pan. Thus the Republicans bandwagon on rhetoric and the Muslim satire. After the media caught wind of Barack and bellyaching compliments of Hillary, the witch hunt was then spurred on by the Republicans. However, to his credit, Obama has since withstood more than either candidate "Hillary Clinton," or "John McCain" by far. John McCain, if not for Clinton's divisive ploy, should have his coronation party cancelled in November; bring your box of kleenex.
In the last 7 state contests he has won 2 and Hillary 5 .She will most likely sweep the remaining 3 giving her a 8 -2 run since mid-Feb.Quote:
don't know what you're looking at but all seems to be going well for the guy
I can't recall a nominee losing strength as his nomination becomes inevidible.
So you're saying she has a good chance of winning the nomination?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
She hasn't spent millions of her own money if she didn't have a chance. Look for her to challenge on the convention floor,or the rules committee ,or the seating committee or if necessary the courts. Don't forget the Democrats love to challenge election results in court.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
1.) Obama has won three of the last seven contests. Also five of the last nine or six out of the last eleven if you want to count the split in Texas between primary and causcus.
2.) From all indications either Obama will win two out of the last three contests or Hillary will win two of the three remaining contests, not a sweep for either candidate.
3.) And this is a biggie so pay close attention: Obama has won 30 out of the last 48 contests, excluding Michigan and Florida due to rule violation.
Iowa caucuses Obama 27
New Hampshire primary Clinton 9
Michigan primary DQ
Nevada caucuses Clinton 11
South Carolina primary Obama 31
Florida primary DQ
Alabama primary Obama 27
Alaska caucuses Obama 9
Arizona primary Clinton 31
Arkansas primary Clinton 27
California primary Clinton 203
Colorado caucuses Obama 36
Connecticut primary Obama 26
Delaware primary Obama 9
Georgia primary Obama 61
Idaho caucuses Obama 15
Illinois primary Obama 104
Kansas caucuses Obama 23
Massachusetts primary Clinton 55
Minnesota caucuses Obama 48
Missouri primary Obama 36
New Jersey primary Clinton 59
New Mexico primary Clinton 14
New York primary Clinton 139
North Dakota caucuses Obama 8
Oklahoma primary Clinton 24
Tennessee primary Clinton 40
Utah primary Obama 14
Louisiana primary Obama 34
Nebraska caucuses Obama 16
Washington caucuses Obama 53
Maine caucuses Obama 15
D.C. primary Obama 11
Maryland primary Obama 42
Virginia primary Obama 54
Hawaii caucuses Obama 14
Wisconsin primary Obama 42
Ohio primary Clinton 75
Rhode Island primary Clinton 13
Texas primary Clinton 65
Texas caucuses Obama 38
Vermont primary Obama 9
Wyoming caucuses Obama 7
Mississippi primary Obama 20
Pennsylvania primary Clinton 85
Indiana primary Clinton 38
North Carolina primary Obama 67
West Virginia primary Clinton 20
Kentucky primary Clinton 37
Oregon primary Obama 29
She has plenty of her own money to donate. If that scenario plays out it will be the recipe for the end of Hillary Clinton's career. In fact, I heard news commentators and politico talking heads say yesterday that they already expect Bill to give a damage control speech to the DNC after his wife loses the nomination to save his own legacy (whatever that was supposed to be now) that has taken a hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I can't wait for November 5th to get here. I can't even look at the letters C M or O with out thinking the word is Clinton Obama or McCain. It is really starting to mess me up at work I was reading a work order and the First word of a sentence is Cliffton and I automatically thought it said Clinton.
The liberal extremist against the white old war hero. Don King would have a field day. Surely his endorsement must be highly sought amongst the candidates?
And who is Big Brown endorsing? He's in New York this week so my guess is Hillary! But given his name perhaps he is going for Obama! Who knows?
Hes not losing support, he just doesn't have as much supporters in the states he's going to now.
The Times West Virginian - Clinton shows strength in Appalachia
The “largely working class Democrats of central Appalachia have a long history of empathy for unions, cultural conservatism (including patriotism, loyalty, fairness and concern for security) and economic issues facing families.”
*** notice patriotism, cultural conservatism and security, not Obama's strong points. [ or at least Clinton is stronger ]
“In that regard, the Clintons — and one can not separate the appeal of Bill from that of Hillary — represent familiar cultural values,” he said.
“The Clintons have also been better than Obama in identifying with the 'us vs. them' perspective of class that is a very powerful value in Appalachia.”
*** Obama's pastor puts Appalachia as "them"
Obama is having trouble appealing to “the local, family, and place-based concerns of rural voters.”
*** faith, gun ownership, respect for life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
Thanks for the list:
Notice among Obama's losses
California
New York
Texas
Pennsylvania
Ohio
This contest would be over if he carried any of those states, and in the general election when winner takes all the electoral votes, these losses show that either he is not as strong a candidate or Clinton is not as weak a candidate or both.
Actually Texas was not that much of a net loss because Obama won the caucus and lost the open primary, that BTW permited the Republicans to vote in the Democrats race. That will not happen in the general election. California and New York will be in play for any Democrat come the general election. In fact Kerry won both states in 2004 and that should tell you something. Penn and Ohio is probably in the loss column in the general election. But overall you're premise is correct about the primary being over if Obama would had carried the majority of those five states. In fact California alone would had put him over the totals, as of today. Of course it's no revelation that if Hillary could had carried about ten other states, that she has lost, the circumstance would had been favorable for her, but she didn't. Overall it's obviously been a close race, although Obama has more delegates and has won at about a 2 to 1 contest ratio.Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
WHY is she spending her OWN money? Obama isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Think like a 60-year-old woman and you will realize why she is playing this out.
The magic man of the teleprompter is slowly losing steam due to his horrible gaffes and inexperience finally being highlighted by the Clinton machine.
Wondergirl
Yes Obama has done amazing things with fund raising . But we have seen many times before where that does not equate into electoral success. The new issue of Atlantic Monthly has an essay about the people who are running his net fundraising efforts. Their work is truly groundbreaking .
You alluded to the large turnout at his rally's . In Portland part of the reason for the large audience was that a popular local band played a free concert before he spoke.
His campaign has been so well organized and so well run that that bodes well for his organizational skills as president. As relates to his campaign staff, he definitely knows how to put people to work and inspire them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
So what were the reasons for all the other huge turnouts?? Bands and door prizes at all the others? He consistently has been able to gather large crowds--all on his own. And he's very personable too on a one-to-one basis.Quote:
You alluded to the large turnout at his rally's . In Portland part of the reason for the large audience was that a popular local band played a free concert before he spoke.
Yeah and one by one they keep disappearing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Seems there are a lot of starstruck libs out there, maybe just hoping to get a bottle of water thrown their way or or be called "sweetie?" Perhaps they like the idea of being puppets in his fiefdom, ready and willing to submit to his "demands."Quote:
So what were the reasons for all the other huge turnouts?? Bands and door prizes at all the others? He consistently has been able to gather large crowds--all on his own. And he's very personable too on a one-to-one basis.
Quote:
"He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism . . . that you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed." -Michelle Obama
Or maybe their only hope is in the Obamassiah to fix their bitter, gun totin' broken souls?Quote:
"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times . . . and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK. That's not leadership. That's not going to happen." -Barack Obama
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