Hello:

There was a drug bust on the San Diego campus yesterday. It was mostly pot with some coke and some ecstasy thrown in... It was just your normal bust...

I saw the coverage on CNN headline news (that's all I got these days). What surprised me, was the surprise of the announcer. He was just shocked that this took place. I mean, he was REALLY, REALLY shocked! He asked whether the correspondent thought this was going on on other campuses in the country...

What??

He evidently, thinks the drug war is working. He is living in la la land. Do YOU think the drug war is working too??

excon

I don't see it in terms of war . I see a bunch of University of San Diego students who decided to violate the law and sell drugs . They were directly responsible for the death of 2 students who od'ed on their product. This isn't a case of a bunch of students selling themselve a joint or 2 . This was hard drugs that I don't think even you believe should be available for recreational consumption.

Hello again, tom:

You point out the real problem that results when the government classifies pot as equally as dangerous as the real hard drugs. You shouldn't be surprised when people believe it.

Clearly, this was and IS a typical college campus. You can get ANY drug there. It's NOT the pot dealers fault that some guy sells something that is harmful. The POT dealers didn't harm anybody! Not a soul. Even you don't think so.

excon

No it is not working. I live in the midst of druggies and dealers and IF 'n when the police actually decide to do something about the drugs after 'watching' them for 2 years or more they simply get out within a week or two and back to the same old same old. I call the jail the place with the revolving door--they are in and out and in and out...
When I say 'Where you been?'
They say 'vacation'
I laugh 'haha code word whoscow!'

It is not working in the case of pot, just like it did not work in the case of prohibition of alcohol, or if there were to be a war against tobacco. People enjoy good food, beverages, smokes, and evidently drugs. So ban the hard stuff and regulate the soft.

College drug sting snags justice, security majors, scores of others - CNN.com

FOUR POUNDS of cocaine! A "normal bust." :eek: Where do you live EX?

Wow, and I thought kids were going to college to LEARN something.

The article does not state whether these drugs were homegrown or imported :confused:

Cocaine is not grown in the US, and no the drug war has been lost ever since the Chinese kicked the British out of their country, for trying to control the opium trade. Such public desplays make the enforcement guys look good, like there doing a good job, but the haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg, and the campus in question already has replaced the dealers and the dope. This is a real old story, that's been going on since the 60's on the college campuses, across the nation. What? You thought the only dope heads where uneducated miscreants, in the ghetto?

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Originally Posted by inthebox

College drug sting snags justice, security majors, scores of others - CNN.com

FOUR POUNDS of cocaine! A "normal bust." :eek: Where do you live EX?

Wow, and I thought kids were going to college to LEARN something.

The article does not state whether these drugs were homegrown or imported :confused:

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I live in Philly and a tiny little bust of 4 kilo's of coke wouldn't even be mentioned on the news or in the newspaper. Let me know when they make a somewhat major bust of say a 100 kilo's that happens every other month in Philly. 4 Kilo's is laughable. But my question is where do you live in the box that you think 4 kilo's is a lot?

And no the drug war is not working I say Legalize everything from pot to herion If everything was legal the government would control it (not like they don't now) and there would be a lot less violence in city's like Philly and NY etc...

SE USA:

I'm amazed that 4 pounds of cocaine is nothing to you all.

Have you been so desensitized to the societal effects of drugs that you just give up and think " what the heck" legalize everything.

Meth and weed are bigger issues here.

Have you all not seen or know what drugs do to families, children, marriages?

Do you not care?

Hello again:

So, it's about 5 to 2.5 of you who don't think the drug war is working. I can't tell exactly where tom comes down. I think he knows it's not working, but he's cool with it.

So, why are we still doing it? Why isn't anybody talking about it? You DO know that we can't ignore it forever. It's going to consume us if it hasn't already.

excon

Hello again, in:

We were posting at the same time. I'd like to address your concerns...

Yes, indeedy do, I know what drugs do to family's. My question for you is, if the drug war is working, why is it STILL doing it to family's?? Your statement alone proves the present approach isn't working.

Drugs should be legalized and regulated just like we regulate liquor and tobacco. At the same time, we need to offer drug rehabilitation on demand to anybody... I suggest further that we transfer our efforts from the legal framework to the health framework.

If we did that, I think drug use would come out of the closet. I don't think many people really want to be addicted, but there's nowhere for them to go now.

Yes, a few people will try drugs, but I think the idea is overblown. From my perspective, everybody who has a propensity to use drugs is already using them. I don't think there's many people just chomping at the bit to try 'em when they become legal. Do you know anybody like that? I don't.

Finally, the price would drop sooooo much that the black market would be virtually wiped out if ONE FELL SWOOP. Yes, I suppose there'll be the odd pot dealer around just like there's still the odd bootlegger.

As an addendum, I would also suggest that if we ended the drug war, and let the non violent drug offenders out, there'll be TONS of room to keep the really bad guys locked up for a loooong time. Prison building would STOP being a growth industry. That's a good thing. Do you know that we are responsible for about a quarter of the worlds prison population??

Hopefully, that'll give you something to think about.

excon

I know exactly what cocaine does to a family. It is an ugly ugly thing. Can't trust the person, can't even look at the person because of the dried up blood and coke encrusted on their nose. It is a horrible thing. I have also seen how alcohol ruins a family (it is actually worst then cocaine). But I don't see anyone running out to get prohibition reinstated.

The facts are people are going to do what they want to do plain and simple. So why not tax the hell out of it make it safer for the people who don't use the drugs. If it were legal 95% of the gun violence in Philadelphia would be gone. Mothers would be able to take their kids to the park again because they wouldn't have to worry about the junkie sitting on the swing set waiting for his dealer. There would never be a story on the news again of a little girl walking to school getting shot because of drug deal gone bad.

Ex :

For the most part I agree.

As to drug rehab, I doubt if more than 10% of users would actually consider it.

There are legalized/ regulated drugs that are being abused - hydrocodone, oxycodone, alprazolam, alcohol, tobacco etc... and just like illegal drugs, making them legal does not make them any safer or prevent addiction, dui[s], and all the sociobehavioral consequences.

I do agree about prison / drugs / non-violent offenders.

If current illegal drugs were to be made legal, I think there should be just as strong a law regarding personal responsibility. By this I mean,

20 years from now, drug users that have fried any mental capability they had can not sue the manufacturer[s] because they turned out to be a looser by their own choice.
You can't blame Pcp for your murder spree, or crack for the damage that it did to your child. Do you know what I mean?

Surprised it made the news, some college PR people dropped the ball there. We did a large drug bust on a local campus here a few years ago.
Anywhere else, I would have been standing by my police car with drugs, and bongs and money all over the hood of the car. Four ** arrests** well I latter went looking for the booking sheets to check for the court dates. Well somewhere along the lines, those students did get suspended one semester but the college arranged for charges to be droped, no mention in any newspaper.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

. They were directly responsible for the death of 2 students who od'ed on their product..

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The students were surely responsible for their own deaths:confused: . If you take something that you know might kill you, and you die, then that's your own d*mn fault.

I don't see why we criminalise this, in the same way I don't understand why we should criminalise suicide. In general, taking drugs and suicide has very similar results.

If it were legal, the criminals wouldn't be able to make money, and buy a bank, or a yacht. Back in the 80's drug profits, financed rebels all over the world, just ask Ollie North.

Good point Talaniman! And all the antidrug commercial today say Illegal drugs help support terrorism. If they were legal no more drug money for terrorist's!

The problem with legalizing drugs is that the government doesn't have backing for it. It's not a big enough issue for most people who want it legalized to refuse to vote for someone who doesn't want to legalize drugs.

It's why America needs a third party that actually tries to fix issues instead of pandering to different special interest groups.

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Originally Posted by michealb

It's not a big enough issue for most people who want it legalized to refuse to vote for someone who doesn't want to legalize drugs.

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Hello michealb:

Very true. But they have a lobby. If you people mean what you say, send a contribution to Norml. The more money they have, the bigger their voice.

excon

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Originally Posted by michealb

The problem with legalizing drugs is that the government doesn't have backing for it. It's not a big enough issue for most people who want it legalized to refuse to vote for someone who doesn't want to legalize drugs.

It's why America needs a third party that actually trys to fix issues instead of pandering to different special interest groups.

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I think you are right; the 'constituency' that would vote for drug legalization is basically turned on and tuned out; the folks that show up at the polls want drug sellers prosecuted and sentenced to long, hard time. There is a very destructive, Puritanical thread within American politics, and right now it is presently coalesced around prosecuting drug sellers and users.

I don't think it's working.

I think the BIGGEST lie out there is that pot is a "gateway" drug. Well, if you can buy harder drugs from the same guy that gives you the "soft" drugs, of COURSE that guy is going to try to get you hooked on the more expensive stuff! More money for him!

If you could buy pot someplace that didn't have harder drugs, like in Amsterdam or in British Columbia, then you wouldn't have that risk.

Besides--when's the last time you heard about pot, or some guy/gal ON pot killing someone, even accidentally? Compare that with the last time you heard about someone killing someone else because they were drunk--HOW often does that commercial say someone is killed by a drunk driver, again?

I think it's ridiculous that people think that the only people that do drugs are the uneducated, poor masses of under-intelligent people. Most of the drug users *I* know are very successful people--they kind of have to be, in order to afford the drugs.

Legalize and regulate! Drugs wouldn't tear apart families if you could get help without risk of being arrested for asking for it!

And yes, I'm a (lapsed) member of NORML. (I swear, it's just been a tough year. I will pay my dues as soon as I can!)

Many of you will argue that gun laws only give all the power to the bad guys.

So why doesn't it stand to reason to you that drug laws only give more power to the bad guys too?

Of course it's not working.

And of course we will continue to fight it, and spend oodles and oodles of money to fight a battle we will never win.

Because anyone who says we should stop the war on drugs hates children... or something like that.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Of course it's not working.

And of course we will continue to fight it, and spend oodles and oodles of money to fight a battle we will never win.

Because anyone who says we should stop the war on drugs hates children... or something like that.

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Am I detecting sarcasm here?

And Skell... laws BANNING drugs or alcohol or guns only give the power to the bad guys.

REGULATING those things gives the power to the good guys.

And frankly, all things considered---people believing in personal responsibility would go a long way towards not needing that sort of regulation at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Of course it's not working.

And of course we will continue to fight it, and spend oodles and oodles of money to fight a battle we will never win.

Because anyone who says we should stop the war on drugs hates children... or something like that.

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I don't hate mine, and they are past the age that I can have much influence on their decision to buy. So, if one of them were to buy pot, where would the most reliable seller be located? As long as pot is illegal, it will be somewhere in the shadows. I would prefer the transaction to take place 'in the open', and subject to tax if necessary.

I see synnen has her sarcasm detecter on! :D

So, if illegal drugs were now legal, we would not have congress asking Roger Clemens questions? :)

I don't live in the States, I'm in Canada so some of the issues you all are dealing with in regards to drugs are a bit different than the issues here.

Are we winning the war, no, are we fighting the battle, I believe we're trying, but we're failing miserably.

Personally, legalizing drugs is the way I think we should go. Sometimes things lose there desirability if they are no longer forbidden. Also, taxes on the sale of drugs would be astronomical, talk about helping the economy.

I'm for the legalization of drugs, that's the only way we can even hope to gain a modicum of control.

Oh yeah, it's working!

Reason Magazine - Hit & Run > Tracy Ingle: Another Drug War Outrage

:eek:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Am I detecting sarcasm here?

And Skell....laws BANNING drugs or alcohol or guns only give the power to the bad guys.

REGULATING those things gives the power to the good guys.

And frankly, all things considered---people believing in personal responsibility would go a long way towards not needing that sort of regulation at all.

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Not sarcasm towards your thoughts at all Synn. Frankly I agree with you. My comment was directed at those who have argued previously that even REGULATING guns is a bad idea and won't work. Many on here think it should be a free for all with everyone carrying what they want. I wanted to see if they had the same thoughts on drugs.

Oh, I meant the sarcasm from Jillean :)

But yeah... I tend to follow your arguments pretty well, Skell. Don't always agree with you, but that's okay! We don't have to agree on everything. You at least make me think most of the time and double check my opinion on stuff--which is good! I like to make sure I'm not just reacting, and that I'm not believing something because I always have--having valid reasons for my thoughts is important to me.

So... keep it coming :)

No, the war on drugs is not working, but it can. There has to be a way. We need to fight harder. These drugs are grabbing a hold of our children - of adults and not letting them go. They are destroying cities and schools.

Legalize? No, not ever is my opinion. Personally, I do not want to be in the car next to someone hepped up on crack, which would then be legal. I don't want to live next to the person hepped up on heroine, who in the privacy of their home, is now injesting a legal drug, which promotes irractic behavior.

I think there is a way to get rid of these drugs, but way too many people are making way too much money for it ever to go away.

The day the mess of drugs become legal is the day I would be petrified of.

And to those of you who sell drugs for profit alone, shame on you and the destruction you are causing.

Allheart--

By your reasoning, we should get rid of ALL drugs, including those that are helpful and prescribed by physicians. Frankly, the possibility of the person in the car next to me being hopped up on prescription painkillers is higher than the possibility of them being on crack or heroin.

And really--alcohol kills more people every year than any other single drug out there... are you pushing for us to go back to prohibition?

If you legalize drugs, at least you can regulate them, and you can have an idea of who is on which drugs--plus, since the people selling the GOOD drugs would be the government, so it would be harder to escalate from the "soft" drugs to the "hard" drugs, simply because the same dealer wouldn't have both.

Until we recognize that the first step to getting the people currently hooked on drugs the help they need is to legalize the drug they are doing so they need not fear arrest when ASKING for that help... well, they're just going to keep doing that drug, then.

Unless someone can show me the statistics where any ONE drug has killed as many people as alcohol has, or for that matter--as many as CARS have (especially driven by teenagers with cell phones)--well, I'm just going to have to believe that regulation is going to make it harder to get hooked and easier watch those who may have a problem.

Besides! Right now, we're throwing away MILLIONS every year on the War on Drugs! Think of the money we could MAKE (and put towards education!) if we taxed the hell out of legalized drugs!

We tax the hell out of legalized tobacco and that has not stopped the criminal enterprise of smuggling them .

You think a pot smoker will not grow their own plants because the government sells pot ?

You think that converting legal drugs into illegal ones doesn't happen ? Why then did the government pull Ephedra products off the shelf ?

Are you suggesting that all the illegal drugs become prescription ? How then would that stop the criminal trafficiting of drugs if it is simply a matter of supply and demand ?

I would suggest that there are as many if not more drivers on the road impaired by the residual remains of their pot smoking than are impaired by prescription drugs . Can I prove it ? Nope . Most often blood tests are not conducted after a routine motor vehicle accident. You can cite the alcohol stats because testing is done for that violation.

Again... by your reasoning... ALL drugs should be illegal, since they convert the legal ones into illegal ones.

Tell me again how making alcohol illegal should happen, then, since that's at least as dangerous as any other drug out there. Tell me how the example of Prohibition couldn't possibly be true for any OTHER drug out there.

And really--the ILLEGAL consumption of alcohol causes problems (teen drunkenness, college bingeing, etc). Since alcohol is destroying our youth, let's make it illegal! I mean, my god! Not only are these kids destroying themselves, they're taking OTHER people with them when they drink and drive!

And while we're on the subject of people being impaired while driving--let's make CELL PHONES illegal too! Too many people are being injured and killed DAILY by people trying to talk or text on their cell phone while driving! And they HAVE regulations for those two "impair-ers".

You're right... let's NOT legalize drugs. Instead, let's make illegal everything ELSE that is getting people killed every day.

By your logic then anything dangerous should be legal ? All drugs should be legal ? Why not allow for general consumption black nightshade ;and fox glove... among a large list of other toxic "natural" products ?

Black Nightshade

Foxglove

There are beneficial parts of both plants.

The PROBLEM isn't the drugs, or dangerous "side effects" of things like driving or cellphones or for that matter airplanes (my god, people die on those things all the time!)--the problem is personal responsibility.

I don't want my government to be my nanny. I think I have grown to an adult with reasonable thinking processes and can make my own decisions when it comes to my personal welfare. I should be able to drive without a seatbelt if I want (though I don't) or skip a helmet on a motorcycle. Why should the GOVERNMENT decide what is best for me?

We've become a sue-happy, it's-not-my-fault, and if-it-were-bad-for-me-it-would-be-illegal society. People KNOW that smoking isn't good for them. People KNOW that drinking isn't good for them--yet the lawsuits march on, and people continue to do all sorts of things that aren't good for them. That's okay! That's their choice!

The consequences of people being able to make their own choices, though, should be that they have to LIVE with those choices. No Welfare, no suing, no whining and crying that they didn't KNOW it wasn't good for them.

The recreational, occasional use of alcohol is accepted by society. Now... be honest... how many people do you know that have NEVER tried pot? I'm not talking little kids, or your gramma (though I know for a fact that my gramma smoked it occasionally). I'm talking people in your everyday life.

By the way--just in case you think I'm some druggie advocating the legalization of my own personal pastime, I'm completely clean. I could pass any drug test you threw at me. Hell, I haven't even had a drink in well over a month, and even that drink was sharing a bottle of wine with my mom over the course of an afternoon.

If you legalized drugs, then you could have those random tests at the side of the road like you do for alcohol. SOP could be a breathalizer and a quick blood test for other drugs. DUI stands for "Driving Under the Influence", you know. That means under the influence of prescription drugs as well as alcohol and/or illegal drugs. You can already be arrested for endangering the lives of others with your foolish notions of how "okay" you are to drive.

Honestly, I'd just like to see the wasted money for the War on Drugs put to better use.

You want logic, They will never go after the people who bring dope to America, and profit from the poison. They arrest and confiscate just enough to justify putting Americans in jail for sale possession and use, while not addressing the root cause of the problem. People do drugs to feel good, and then get hooked trying to keep feeling good. Until the real problem of getting the big fish out of the water is addressed, this war will never work. Legalizing it would take it out of the shadows, and back alleys, and put the profits to something useful I think. Those who want drugs have always been able to get them, and no armed force will ever stop that. Sink a few ships bringing tons of heroin from Afghanistan (90% of the heroin comes from there) or burning the crops at it source, you might start making a difference or at least send a message to the rich guys with the boats and planes. Until then, this isn't a war at all, like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. It just makes those making band aids rich, and doesn't solve a darn thing.

Tal, I agree with you 100%.

Too many making too much money bringing that mess in here. We need to get to the head of the snake for this thing to work.

Synn - I agree alcohol can and is just as destructive, but shouldn't be the place to point to support legalizing street drugs. And the reason the chances are greater for you to live next to or drive in front of or behind someone on too many painkillers vice illegal street drugs, is perhaps, because the painkillers are legal and heroine and crack is not. Hopefully.

Allheart,

I'm just saying that it comes back to personal responsibility no matter WHAT the distracting substance is--cell phone, text message, drugs, alcohol, screaming baby, I don't care.

If you can't safely be driving/working/walking down the street due to tiredness, inattention, false perceptions because of drinking/drugs--then the punishment should be EQUAL for all of the above.

I just resent the heck out of people that point at drugs and say "There is the problem with society! Too many people are using drugs, making it unsafe for the rest of us!" I mean, honestly--do you really think MORE people are going to run out and try drugs than run out and try them now just because it's LEGAL?

I'm honestly more afraid of the people who come to work sick as dogs and spread their germs around than I am of the people who come to work high. Of course, I work in an office environment--but I think I'd still feel the same way if I worked construction. Distracted is distracted, whether it's from drugs or a fever... or from Nyquil/Sudafed... or from a hangover.

And really... it's not like the basics would change anyway. You'd still have companies with a No Drug Policy. You'd still get arrested for operating a motor vehicle. You'd still get arrested for creating a public disturbance. The only difference is that there would be a safe place to get your drugs, so that you'd know they weren't altered, or laced, or whatever. You also wouldn't have the same place selling you the drugs trying to push ANOTHER drug on you. I mean, you don't see bars saying "dude...forget the beer. Try this Everclear!"

Legalizing would get rid of the vast majority of street dealers as well--many of whom are the ones who target kids.

Let's say we legalized all drugs, and regulated them. Who's to say that regulation from one drug to the next has to be the same? Some drugs should be treated like alcohol is--such as pot. You can buy it, you can take it home, you can have it at a hash bar--as long as you use it responsibly. Other drugs, the harder stuff like crack and crystal meth--those you can only use in a secure facility, and only when you have arranged for transportation FROM the facility. There are as many ways of regulation as people have imagination. This doesn't need to be an all-or-nothing thing!

I just think that the money spent fighting drugs could be better spent on educating people about drugs, and if it's legal, there will be FAR fewer court/jail issues over stupid stuff, and the cops could better focus on what's really important instead of petty drug raids.