http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/us...mpaign.html?hp


“And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not,” Mr. Obama went on. “And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to GUNS or RELIGION or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or ANTI-IMMIGRANT sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


Opps - who put that in the script?

Like I said in January it's going to be fun watching the Democrats do Each other in!
All McCain has to do is sit back and watch the fur fly!

He's such a liar, and not nearly as accomplished as Hillary.

I am beginning to appreciate more and more the length of our process. Obama was an unknown but as the veneer is getiing peeled layer by layer the true person is emerging.

His views are frankly not unique . The elite liberals have always been perplexed by the people of flyover America. You could tell when he began his campaign in the Penn. Heartland that he was perplexed like a fish out of water. His attempts at bowling may be this campaigns equivalent of John Kerry eating at Wendys . At town hall meetings he has been flumoxed when supporters have asked him to say something patriotic. He doesn't understand that even in hard times that the people don't look to Washington as a solution . Obama who has defended his religion in a major address ,and has written about how important faith means to him ,does not understand why the white folks in Pennesylvania would also find comfort in their faith .

To the elite audience he was addressing his comments make perfect sense. Evidently Pennsylvanians began to appreciate their guns and religions only after the Industrial Belt became the Rust belt . Why wouldn't these blue collar workers also vote "blue" ? Why wouldn't they flock to the Democrats who have always looked after their best interests ;and delivered the goods? They are just another victim class that should be looking to the hope man for salvation.

The elites made books like "What's the Matter with Kansas"? A best seller with it's theme that liberals promise poor people free money so, therefore, poor people who don't vote for liberals are stupid. They are the enlightened class .So if that is their attitude then Obama was only parroting it to them since they were the audience of the day .

It is typical of Obama .He tells his audience what they want to hear. To workers free trade is dangerous to be avoided . To a different audience he says those who oppose free trade is xenophobic. To other audiences he claims to be pro-gun .To the San Fran crowd he belittles the people who cling to guns.

It is very telling that it was an Obama supporter who recorded and videotaped these comments after being given a special pass to this donor only meeting. After a few days to contemplate it she thought it would be perfectly safe to share this with another audience that has similar contempt for those stupid poor white folks who don't cling to the Democrat party for salvation... the Huffpos.
Mayhill Fowler: Obama: No Surprise That Hard-Pressed Pennsylvanians Turn Bitter - Off The Bus on The Huffington Post
The writer explains that the qualities of hospitality, patriotism and endurance are exactly what Californians need to hear about Pennsylvanians and instead they got a speech belittling the good folks of Pennsylvania.

It wasn't Carl Rove and a Republican hit machine. His own supporters have consistently thrown monkey wrenches into his deceptions . The true Obama has been revealed by his wife and her comments.The true Obama has been revealed by the comments of Rev Wright.The true Obama has been revealed by the actions of his biggest supporter Tony Rezko . The true Obama has been revealed by his close relationship with Weatherman Bill Ayers. And now The true Obama has been revealed by a supporter who found his disdain for rural white America completely acceptable.

As for Obama ;he made a number of attempts to clarify but he has not backed away from the premise. "If I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that," .... "The underlying truth of what I said remains."
It will not matter in the Democrat primary process. The hardcore Left that owns the Democratic Party will complete its takeover with the nomination of Obama. He shares their worldview . He's one of them. But he is counting on Reagan Democrats in the general election. They will neither forget Rev Wright's screeds nor Obama's .

At least we finally have a Democratic candidate being honest :D

I'm loving Obama's sudden candor. He seems to be digging a deeper hole with every attempt at explaining his remarks. This was his latest clarification last night:

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“That was in no way a demeaning of a faith that I myself embrace. When economic hardship hits, they have faith, they have family, they have traditions that have been passed on from generation to generation. Those are not bad things. Those are the things that are left.”

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So the things that are left during hard times are family, religion, guns, racism and bigotry - and apparently those last few 'traditions' are also "not bad things."

Obama also forgot to mention that "bitter" people eat apple pie, buy Chevys, and watch baseball. :)


Is Obama "bitter" since he "clings" to Rev Wright? :confused:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Obama also forgot to mention that "bitter" people eat apple pie, buy Chevys, and watch baseball. :)


Is Obama "bitter" since he "clings" to Rev Wright? :confused:

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That's different. Neither Obama or the Rev. are a "typical white person." :D

His honesty (and correctness) in this instance will be his undoing! He certainly seems to have erred here no matter how true his words are.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

“And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not,” Mr. Obama went on. “And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to GUNS or RELIGION or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or ANTI-IMMIGRANT sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

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I agree with his "religious" comment, though perhaps not for the same reasons Obama intended. In Judaism we shouldn't practise out of rote. In another words, just going through the motions or mimicking others just because it's carried down generation to generation. Obama upholds the second amendment and is not against gun ownership contrary to what the Clinton campaign would have everyone to believe.

What Obama does is a lawyers two step slide on gun ownership. He says gun ownership is not the exclusive prerogative of the "well regulated militia". But at the same time he says that local "common sense "should prevail. In other words ;the hayseeds in Pennsylvania's rust belt should be free to get their duck hunting weapons . It's part of "their culture".But the folks in DC who would buy a gun to defend themselves ;their families ;their homes from predators should not have that privilege.

"The notion that somehow local jurisdictions can't initiate gun safety laws to deal with gang-bangers and random shootings on the street isn't borne out by our Constitution."

This of course is a position that has evolved over time. In a 1996 questionnaire he supported the banning of the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns .

More recently the Illinois House and Senate passed legislation in May 2004 to protect citizens who use handguns in self-defense in their homes or businesses despite local handgun bans.In the Ill. Senate Obama was one of 20 Senators to vote against the bill. The Governor vetoed the law and again Obama voted against over-riding the veto. Thankfully the veto was rejected and the common sense defense of ones family and home is not a criminal offense.

But this says a lot about Obama's attitude about the 2nd Amendment . It is fine to own a gun to hunt ducks ;but he has a problem with people owning guns for the real reason the 2nd Amendment was adopted .

I live in Philadelphia and I could careless about the people in the Central and western part of the state and their guns. There is nothing out there so they aren't "protecting" their families they are hunting and that's fine.

Now Come to my block in Philadelphia and you will be begging for gun control. 95% of the people on this site wouldn't dare walk around my neighborhood day or night. I believe Philadelphia alone last year had a little over 400 murders from HANDGUN Violence. 20 of those murders took place in a 10 block radius of were I live. Hand guns are ruining the city of Philadelphia So I agree let the people have their hunting rifle's but hand guns have to go.

So all the people that are against Obama trying to get rid of hand guns, I have one question for you How Many people were shot dead on the street in the middle of the afternoon in your town?

Oh and in case you need a visual aid to see what that many murders looks like here you go:
Safer City Map - A Safer City News Story - WCAU | Philadelphia

How many of the guns used in the shooting were legal and registered ?

Most of the guns on the streets were owned legally at one time. But the criminals in philly love to break in peoples house and search for guns among other things of course. So now they are in the wrong hands. Or a thing that the people in Philly love to do is get someone who doesn't have a record (like a girlfriend) to get them a gun Legally then they report the guns are stolen. And then used on the streets.

Tom I answered your question now answer mine How many people were shot on the street in the middle of the afternoon in your town?

I am one of the few in my neighborhood that doesn't own a gun of some kind . Our streets are very safe . DC is a place with no legal guns . Yet it is one of the most violent cities in the nation . Va.Tech mass murder anniversary is this week . Va tech has a zero tolerance to guns policy.

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” Attributed to Thomas Jefferson

The truth is that violent crime rates began to drop dramatically in the US as others emulated Florida's conceal and carry laws adopted in 1987 .Today 40 states have such laws, and by 2004 the US Bureau of Justice reported that “firearms-related crime has plummeted”.

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But the criminals in philly love to break in peoples house and search for guns among other things of course. So now they are in the wrong hands.

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Didn't the State just reject legislation that would make the reporting of lost and stolen guns mandatory ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

What Obama does is a lawyers two step slide on gun ownership.

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Jim Geraghty at NRO made note of this particular Obama story:

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Obama; No Gun Shops Within Five Miles of Schools; Porn Shops Okay

I'm going to enjoy writing about a general election campaign against Barack Obama.

As Corner contributor Dave Kopel and David Bernstein note, Barack Obama proposed a few years ago a federal law against licensed firearms dealers operating within five miles of a school or park. As Kopel notes, "Every town I've ever visited which has more than a few dozen inhabitants has either a school or a park. Hypothesizing that the ban would apply to city parks (e.g., Central Park in New York City) but not to National Parks, pick a geographical region, and describe where a licensed firearms dealer could operate. Or pick a geographic point (e.g, Houston)and identify how far a peson would have to drive in order to get to the closest point where a gun store could legally be located. Extra credit for illustrative maps."

As the commenters noted, this would effectively ban gun shops from most of the country, and just about every city.

However, Obama appears to find another kind of establishment to be perfectly fine operating near your children's school:

Obama was also the sole present vote on a bill that easily passed the Senate that would require teaching respect for others in schools. He also voted present on a measure to prohibit sex-related shops from opening near schools or places of worship, which ultimately did not pass the Senate.

In both of those cases, his campaign said, he was trying to avoid mandates on local authorities.

The bill did not get the required three-fifths majority, so it did not in fact pass. (Mr. Obama voted “present” on the measure.)

Why on God's green earth does Barack Obama object to mandates on local authorities for porn shops but not for gun stores? Or conversely, why does he feel it's necessary to keep gun stores five miles from a school, but no limit on porn shops?

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http://www.blackfive.net/photos/unca...obamadance.gif

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Originally Posted by tomder55

In other words ;the hayseeds in Pennsylvania's rust belt should be free to get their duck hunting weapons . It's part of "their culture".But the folks in DC who would buy a gun to defend themselves ;their families ;their homes from predators should not have that privilage.

It is fine to own a gun to hunt ducks ;but he has a problem with people owning guns for the real reason the 2nd Amendment was adopted .

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How many gang bangers have you capped a bullet off in lately? I'm an advocate of individual rights to own pistols, rifles, or even hand grenades. For me it comes down to being a responsible person period. But I can't help but get a kick out of people using the gang drama as if they are Van Helsing bounty hunting monsters.

Firearms? Duck, deer, moose, bear, wolf, pheasant, dove, squirrel, rabbit, whatever animal, etc... that can be shot with a firearm can be used to maim or kill a human.

No I did not say that we should do a Charles Bronson and hunt them down .I was clearly talking about self defense.

Charles Bronson using a sock full of quarters? And how many times have you had to use a gun in self defense of your life (your family), on your property, or just minding your own business on the streets?

As I wrote above I am not a gun owner and I find this line of questioning irrelevant . Either you believe in the 2nd amendment or you don't . I cited stats that show that individual gun ownership decreases violent crime. Do I need to have had such an incident to have an opinion ?

Yes they most certainly did reject that. Which makes no sense at all. It's all the people in the central and western part of the state who are afraid once one law gets passed then another law and another law will then they will take their guns. That's why all the gun laws get shot done (no pun intended) I don't understand how a carry and conceal law would make the firearms related deaths go down but again that information is from 4 years ago.

I think it would be much harder to murder someone in Broad daylight with a hunting rifle I mean it's pretty hard to hide on of those bad boys. But hopefully things will change in Philly since they are putting in a stop and frisk law. I don't fully agree with it but gun violence is so bad they have no choice since lawmakers will do nothing about it.

What's funny here is Obama boasts of the 'legislative accomplishment' of him having passed a whistle-blower protection law, and yet his campaign is reportedly 'livid' over Mayhill Fowler, the 'whistle-blower' making it into his $1000 a plate fund raiser - and then of course posting on Huffpo.

The Kossacks seem to be up in arms. The NY Times reports "there’s a bit of a brush fire in California about how Ms. Fowler got in." Democratic Undergrounders are upset, and even fellow Huffpos aren't happy with Fowler.

As Thomas Sowell put it:

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People who have been cheering whistle-blowers for years have suddenly denounced the person who blew the whistle on what Obama said in private that is so contradictory to what he has been saying in public.

However inconsistent Obama’s words, his behavior has been remarkably consistent over the years. He has sought out and joined with the radical, anti-Western Left — whether Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers of the terrorist Weatherman underground, or pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Rashid Khalidi.

Obama is also part of a long tradition on the Left of being for the working class in the abstract, or as people potentially useful for the purposes of the Left, but having disdain or contempt for them as human beings.

Karl Marx said, “The working class is revolutionary or it is nothing.” In other words, they mattered only in so far as they were willing to carry out the Marxist agenda.

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Obama is also part of a long tradition on the Left of being for the working class in the abstract, or as people potentially useful for the purposes of the Left, but having disdain or contempt for them as human beings.

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This quote pretty much sums what an idiot this Sowell guy is. But of course this is what YOU believe so have fun with that.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This quote pretty much sums what what an idiot this Sowell guy is. But of course this is what YOU believe so have fun with that.

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Well NK, I'm not part of the left's class of useful idiots so I CAN have fun with it. But leave it to you to call Thomas Sowell (a conservative African-American) an idiot. FYI, here is his curriculum vita:

ADDRESS: The Hoover Institution
Stanford University
Stanford, California 94305
(650) 723-3303

PERSONAL: U.S. Citizen, born June 30, 1930

EDUCATION:

Ph.D. in Economics, University of Chicago, 1968
A.M. in Economics, Columbia University, 1959
A.B. in Economics, magna laude, Harvard College, 1958

EXPERIENCE:

Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, September 1980 - present
Professor of Economics, U.C.L.A., July 1974 - June 1980
Visiting Professor of Economics, Amherst College, September- December 1977
Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, April- August 1977
Fellow, Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences, July 1976 - March 1977
Project Director, The Urban Institute, August 1972 - July 1974
Associate Professor of Economics, U.C.L.A., September 1970 - June 1972
Associate Professor of Economics, Brandeis University, September 1969 - June 1970
Assistant Professor of Economics, Cornell University, September 1965 - June 1969
Economic Analyst, American Telephone & TelegraphCo., June 1964 - August 1965
Lecturer in Economics, Howard University, September 1963 - June 1964
Instructor in Economics, Douglass College, Rutgers University, September 1962 - June 1963
Labor Economist, U.S. Department of Labor, June 1961 - August 1962

PRINCIPAL PUBLICATIONS:

On Classical Economics (Yale University Press, 2006)
Black Rednecks and White Liberals (Encounter Books, 2005)
The Quest for Cosmic Justice (Free Press,1999)
Conquests and Cultures (Basic Books, 1998)
Migrations and Cultures (Basic Books, 1996)
The Vision of the Anointed (Basic Books, 1995)
Race and Culture: A World View ( Basic Books,1994 )
A Conflict of Visions (William Morrow, 1987)
Ethnic America (Basic Books, 1981)
Knowledge and Decisions (Basic Books, 1980)
Say's Law: An Historical Analysis (Princeton University Press, 1972)

I'm sure you're qualified to judge an 'idiot' like Sowell. :D

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Originally Posted by tomder55

as I wrote above I am not a gun owner and I find this line of questioning irrelevent . Either you believe in the 2nd amendment or you don't . I cited stats that show that individual gun ownership decreases violent crime. Do I need to have had such an incident to have an opinion ?

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I'm not sure if you're addressing me or I got in the middle of your conversation with other contributors. I just wanted it clear that the use of firearms, as protection, in and of itself, is not wrong. But often it's made out to be the "end all" purpose, out of fear in proposed gun ownership arguments. When you live in NYC, Vegas, Philly, Chicago, LA, Houston, Dallas, etc.. in larger cities as we do, our surroundings activate our natural defense mechanisms. I see elements of hoodlums almost daily, so I'm not dismissing that fact. I work in the casino and as you know we have all the traffic from all sorts of walks of life, both good and bad. But outside the protection of the security that my workplace affords me, I know where I belong in Vegas and what neighborhoods are best avoided. My point is that unless you have a concealed weapon permit, you'll just have to load up that sawed-off shotgun with slugs or buckshot instead of duck waterfowl loads. Most of us believe in the second amendment, I do.

Speech,
Based on his quote he's an idiot and a bigot. But since you agree with his stance you think he's a stand-up guy.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

speech,
Based on his quote he's an idiot and a bigot.

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That's funny, Obama proves Sowell right and you call HIM the idiot and bigot. That's liberal logic for you.

If you can show me where Obama has showed disdain or contempt for them (working class) as human beings then I'd be happy to agree with you. Other that you're just mudslinging as per usual.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Jim Geraghty at NRO made note of this particular Obama story:



http://www.blackfive.net/photos/unca...obamadance.gif

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Mr. "Goody two-shoes" trying to do a song and dance act in reply to serious questions America is now calling him on. Ah, how perfect to show the true picture of the man who wants to be the next Prez of the U.S.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

If you can show me where Obama has showed disdain or contempt for them (working class) as human beings then I'd be happy to agree with you. Other that you're just mudslinging as per usual.

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NK, once again the pot calling the kettle black - having the gall to to call Sowell an idiot and bigot while complaining of mudslinging. Again, that's liberal logic for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

as I wrote above I am not a gun owner and I find this line of questioning irrelevent . Either you believe in the 2nd amendment or you don't . I cited stats that show that individual gun ownership decreases violent crime. Do I need to have had such an incident to have an opinion ?

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I can and have produced stats that counter that. Refer to my long debates with Elliot. Stats don't tell the whole story. But if you want I can produce stats on mass murder by firearm in the US compared to countries with strict gun control laws. You won't like what they say!

When talking guns stats can be used effectively by both side of the arguments. But the stat that hits home most is death by firearms and in the US its mind boggling.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

NK, once again the pot calling the kettle black - having the gall to to call Sowell an idiot and bigot while complaining of mudslinging. Again, that's liberal logic for you.

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Liberal logic - isn't that an oxymoron? :)

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Originally Posted by Skell

I can and have produced stats that counter that. Refer to my long debates with Elliot. Stats dont tell the whole story. But if you want i can produce stats on mass murder by firearm in the US compared to countries with strict gun control laws. Yoiu wont like what they say!

When talking guns stats can be used effectively by both side of the arguments. But the stat that hits home most is death by firearms and in the US its mind boggling.

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Check this stat for me: How many planes have been hijacked since 9/11, after the feds allowed pilots to arm?

I prefer to look at stats relevant to the argument George.

George you are really reaching on that one. How about you go to Philly and tell a mother of a 14 year old boy who was shot because he wouldn't ride his bike fast enough out of the street. You can read it for yourself
Family, Friends Say Goodbye To Tykeem Law - Local News Story - WCAU | Philadelphia

Dear God how I love my Canada after reading this site!

NK you have no idea how close I am to moving there!!

If McCain's elected I might have to join you in French class. :)

Tous sont bienvenu! Unless you're going to Quebec or northern New Brunswick you won't need French (though it never hurts to expand your knowledge of languages).