Time's Joe Klein thinks so: "Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now."
The Patriotism Problem - TIME
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Time's Joe Klein thinks so: "Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now."
The Patriotism Problem - TIME
About Klein's statement, simply put, how can it not be? If Obama had not shown the whole nation that he did not want to Patriotically place his hand over his heart for the National Anthem and that he did not wish to wear the American Flag pin on his lapel and had he distanced himself from Wright's hateful, unpatriotic remarks years ago as well as from Farra--, and told his wife not to say what the news media says she said about this country, then perhaps he would have better credibility. But under the circumstances, the writer of the article hit the nail *right on the head*! We need a President who will do things PATRIOTICALLY the *AMERICAN* way and show his or her LOVE for this country not fill people's broken dreams with impossible solutions using gossamer thin plastic tape just to sound nice and hold the public's attention thereby pulling the wool over their eyes. Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it for someone campaigning on real CHANGE! We need Experience and Savvy to solve the pressing problems this country is now facing and Obama simply just doesn't have what it takes to lead us forward no matter how badly the spinmeisters try to color it!Quote:
Originally Posted by George_1950
Quote:
Originally Posted by George_1950
I have to admit after reading this article I think Joe Klein has discovered a new way to get a paycheck for doing diddly squat. I do agree with parts of his commentary, but as an informed reader, some of it didn't work for me.
Example 1
""But there was still something missing. I noticed it during Obama's response to a young man who remembered how the country had come together after Sept. 11 and lamented "the dangerously low levels of patriotism and pride in our country, the loss of faith in our elected officials." Obama used this, understandably, to go after George W. Bush. "Cynicism has become the hot stock," he said, "the growth industry during the Bush Administration." He talked about the Administration's mendacity, its incompetence during Hurricane Katrina, its lack of transparency. But he never returned to the question of patriotism. He never said, "But hey, look, we're Americans. This is the greatest country on earth. We'll rise to the occasion.""
Barack was saying we could do better by comparison of the soon to be past Bush admin, not just a campaigning shot, but true to subject. BTW using Joe's own logic and judgment, Joe himself just suggested the US is not the greatest country on earth and that we need to rise to the occasion. Perhaps there is some truth to that. Wow! :eek:
Example 2
"Patriotism is, sadly, a crucial challenge for Obama now. His aides believe that the Wright controversy was more about anti-Americanism than it was about race. Michelle Obama's unfortunate comment that the success of the campaign had made her proud of America "for the first time" in her adult life and the Senator's own decision to stow his American-flag lapel pin — plus his Islamic-sounding name — have fed a scurrilous undercurrent of doubt about whether he is "American" enough."
We already know the man has more uphill battles to fight from a historical perspective than the other two current candidates. That's why Geraldine Ferraro stills wears the bozo button for suggesting Barack's path was easier, and was lucky because he was "black." What real expectations does Klein have for Obama to change his last name to Clinton or McCain? :rolleyes:
Example 3
"In this campaign, we will not stand for the politics that uses religion as a wedge and patriotism as a bludgeon," he said on the night that he lost Ohio and Texas. But then he added, "I owe what I am to this country, this country that I love, and I will never forget it." That has been the implicit patriotism of the Obama candidacy: only in America could a product of Kenya and Kansas seek the presidency. It is part of what has proved so thrilling to his young followers, who chanted, "U-S-A, U-S-A," the night that he won the Iowa caucuses. But now, to convince those who doubt him, Obama has to make the implicit explicit. He will have to show that he can be as corny as he is cool."
George- My family has been involved in almost every war since we migrated to this country generations ago. I salute the White House when they've made good decisions and gave them the finger when deserved. These are same idiots that want to be build a fence on our borders like a Berlin Wall. Sure it will keep some illegals out, but at the same time the government pins it's own citizens in like animals. America has had two hundred years plus of Caucasian presidents and short of McCain giving a minstrel show the only candidate with a tan will be Barack. And so, "Hey Joe!" Where you going with that box of corn flakes in your hand? :)
Hello George:Quote:
Originally Posted by George_1950
I don't know, George. 81% in a NY Times/CBS poll say the nation is headed on the wrong track.
Your guy, Joe Klein, thinks we shouldn't be saying that... “This is a chronic disease among Democrats, who tend to talk more about what's wrong with America than what's right.”
You guy's like all that God and Country rhetoric….. That's all it is, though, corny rhetoric. It makes you feel good… But, it don't fix nothing… I'd rather fix things than feel good. In my view, looking at the country through rose colored glasses is what's wrong with America...
Tell me, how can things be fixed if you never talk about them?? Or, do you just pretend everything is rosey?? I actually think that's what it is.
But, as long as things are bad, THOSE are patriotic things to talk about. And, things are bad! Let me say that again. It's VERY PATRIOTIC to talk about the things that are wrong… I know you don't understand that… That's why you're going to lose this election and many more to come.
excon
[QUOTE=excon]It's a good thing some of us don't base our opinions on our feelings. What's interesting, is all these people saying things have "gotten off on the wrong track" (whatever that means) say the economy is the main concern yet 72% say the financial situation in their household is either very good (9%) or good (63%).Quote:
I don't know, George. 81% in a NY Times/CBS poll say the nation is headed on the wrong track.
I don't get that at all, ex, he's pointing out the obvious.Quote:
Your guy, Joe Klein, thinks we shouldn't be saying that... “This is a chronic disease among Democrats, who tend to talk more about what's wrong with America than what's right.”
Yeah, there's a lot of corny patriotism in this country but there's a difference between corny patriotism and inspiration, we need a lot more of the latter. Obama himself is proof of that with all his "hope" rhetoric. The problem with him AND the Democratic party of late is it's just talk, with one goal, winning.Quote:
You guy’s like all that God and Country rhetoric….. That’s all it is, though, corny rhetoric. It makes you feel good… But, it don’t fix nothing… I’d rather fix things than feel good. In my view, looking at the country through rose colored glasses is what's wrong with America...
We do need to talk about things and it is patriotic to talk about what's wrong if the motivation is really to make things better. I don't see that from Democrats. I see a bunch of whiny children having tantrums when they don't get their way (see Bill Clinton lately). I see politicians saying whatever it takes to win because it's all about power to them (see Obama and Hillary's fantasies). The 2006 election is a perfect example, where they threw their own guy under the bus (Lieberman), trotted out the blue dog Democrats front and center while putting their radical little children on a leash, promising their six point plan of "change and new direction for America." What happened? A new direction meant wasting the past year in investigations, demanding an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, and otherwise antagonizing Bush. What's new about that?Quote:
Tell me, how can things be fixed if you never talk about them?? Or, do you just pretend everything is rosey?? I actually think that’s what it is.
But, as long as things are bad, THOSE are patriotic things to talk about. And, things are bad! Let me say that again. It’s VERY PATRIOTIC to talk about the things that are wrong… I know you don’t understand that… That’s why you’re going to lose this election and many more to come.
Obama was right, "Cynicism has become the hot stock, the growth industry during the Bush Administration." What you're talking about ex, is patriotic. The left is just feeding the "growth industry" of cynicism, and that is NOT patriotic. I don't need corny patriotism from my president any more than I need angry, arrogant cynicism.
Obama is too cool to be corny.
From a political strategy standpoint this is the equivalent of Michael Dukakis leading the fight against the Pledge of Allegiance. I think he should keep it up and continue to say people who wear flags on their lapels are displaying phony patriotism. In fact I urge him to do so.
Clinton is certainly not my guiding star. But one thing he did that made an impression on me, he knew enough about TV journalism and photo journalism (pictures in papers and mags) that he always had a background of American flags. Now comes Obama, and doesn't place his hand over his heart, and doesn't wear the flag on his lapel. Frankly, I couldn't care less, but he is running for president, and these things mean something to some voters. Of course, Clinton was the master in fooling a lot of people, a lot of the time.
Compared to where, Haiti? Even Dubya admits the economy is not doing well, i.e. stimulus package. Republicans can't have it both ways, but if people insist that their household is doing "very good" or "good," then the seventy-two percent can afford to send the remaining thirty-eight percent their share of any rebate check funds, they may be receiving. I'm taking all donations. Thank you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hey man, I'm just citing from the poll. I'm all about facts, and that's what it says. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
Oh darn! I had the seventy-two percent donations already spent. I was going to get a full tank of gas and after about twenty more stops pit stops between Vegas and Big D, I'll be primed for a Texas steak dinner, some preseason football, a couple of new jerseys and caps. Yeah! Never mind, I've got bills to pay first. But "hey" it sounded good! I'm shutting down before shabbos. Catch you later. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Obama has proven to us that he is not the leader he thinks he is. But he is a good **FOLLOWER**! Just look at the facts, he is the lock-step follower of Rev. Wright and Farrakhan! That will not make for a good American president and anyone who has hung his or her hat on Obama may as well hang it up!
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Originally Posted by guest
Nothing personal but as evidence by previous posts with numerous threads, the other Repubs got their newsletter instructions before you. Take a look-see for yourself. I'll catch everyone later. :rolleyes:
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Originally Posted by BABRAM
Hey Bobby, if you stop at Amarillo on your way through you can always get a shot a free 72 oz steak dinner at The Big Texan. ;)
Shabbat Shalom my friend.
Uh uh babe, it must be the funny drink you've been drinking that makes your eyes roll like that and talk that way continuing to defend one that brought all of the disaster upon himself. Check the rest of the nation, and what has even happened to the church Obama used to attend! It was on the top news today! Americans are *not* happy with those things and soon enough they will see through this man wanting the highest office and look elsewhere. As the next states begin to reject Obama, it is he who is going to roll his eyes from fear and incredulity as to what's happening but alas, the Nation would have finally *awoken* from their deep sleep and pacification of his words and will finally stand up to vote for someone else with a solid concrete plan for our economic recovery and other woes. So defend him all you want while we snicker behind your back as you're very amusing! Aw, pobrecito sure appears that he don't know any better!Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
I once told a corporate attorney that his mouth moved but he wasn't saying anything. Fact one: Obama still has membership at the same church. Not as you claimed, "what has even happened to the church Obama used to attend!" Fact two: I don't tell your aunt how to stock her liquor cabinet because that would me be the bad "guest." Like playing dozens? ;) Fact three: Obama would have to lose to Hillary by a margin of improbable large double digits in all the remaining State primaries and still that wouldn't be enough to give her the outright nomination. Now seriously son, if you can muster up something other than an opinion and provide the facts concerning that "solid economic plan," the floors all yours. Instead of blindly swinging at air trying to hit the piñata, just put forward the plan in this thread and stop wasting time. I'll let you know what parts I agree, or disagree upon. :)
Senior Bubba, if Obama has not been able to muster the plan himself and present it to the American people in depth and he's the one running for president, other than just using cutsie-tootsie words that sound like a xylophone to people's ears, including yours obviously, then the pied piper doesn't have any plan. Sorry to burst your bubble but you're obviously waiting for the next great ark and it surely ain't comin' by way of Obama! Watch yourself, you're blowing a lot of hot air again, Bubba, heh, heh!Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
This is to funny, as the leaders of the church who know the reverend in question, had a news conference and gave him their support, and praised his more than 30 year record, and the shocking fact that the church in question is an integrated church, not a black one. Don't get stuck on 10 lousy minutes, buy the whole series of tapes, and get the full flavor. You obviously don't have cable, or you would have seen it in person, oh that was a white guy, who is the head of the church board doing the talking, so was the other guy with him, yeah a black guy is with them. As for Farrakhan, haven't heard from him, since they gave the money back, so what could you be talking about?Quote:
But he is a good **FOLLOWER**! Just look at the facts, he is the lock-step follower of Rev. Wright and Farrakhan!
I'd be careful about putting a lot of faith in anything Joe Klein writes, he is the poster boy for right wing bias. Oh sorry, excuse me if your one of those.
Sorry, t, but JK is not part of the right wing conspiracy.
Time magazine and right wing? :confused:
Perhaps Hillary is to the right of Obama. Now that is scary. :eek:
Did you forget your sign-on password or did you get caught for trolling again "Gust" (Guest)? What happened to that "solid economic plan" you crowed about earlier? That's what I figured. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Gust
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthebox
Good point. Early on some of the Republicans in media commented that there was no difference between John McCain and Hillary Clinton outside of Universal Health-care and the length of Iraqi war proposals. :)
Ah, you liked my sign-in name, huh? Guess I'll keep it then! But seriously, now I *know* I am dealing with a trolling whippersnapper. What you write and the way you write it tells the story. I am still waiting to hear about Obama's plan for the country, you know -- the miraculous panacea to the nation's problems. Oh, no such thing you say? Well, how come I knew that already! So, no dice with you amigo, nice try but no cigar! Let's get some real pros here to discuss matters of importance!Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
Sometimes you just got to educate them, George! Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by George_1950
George, is this one of your "educated" proteges? Might want to motivate your student to provide that "solid concrete plan for our economic recovery" that she proclaimed. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust
McCain’s Economic Plan | Newsweek Business | Newsweek.com
Staying on Bush's Course!
McCain's fiscal program is either a joke or a fantasy
Daniel Gross
Newsweek Web Exclusive
Updated: 3:38 PM ET Mar 28, 2008
"In the last week, the three remaining presidential candidates made big-picture economic speeches that were perfectly in keeping with the tone of their campaigns. Barack Obama delivered his speech, introduced by New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg (a potential Obamacan?), at Cooper Union, a venue long identified with great oratory. Hillary Clinton tactically delivered her speech in the current battleground state of Pennsylvania and offered a list of solutions. Both campaigns have remarkably detailed (and remarkably similar) platforms on how to attack the various economic woes facing America.
John McCain, fresh from a whirlwind tour aimed at demonstrating his foreign-policy credentials, took a somewhat different approach. There's an emerging theme surrounding his campaign: The problem with the last eight years isn't that the Bush administration had the wrong policies or was incompetent. No, the problem is that it lacked intensity. Which is why McCain is bent on offering a more concentrated, sustained, high-energy form of Bushism. Bush has been adamant about staying in Iraq until the end of his presidency; McCain is adamant about staying up to 100 years, if necessary. Bush has taken to carefully cherry-picking facts and metrics (the number of soccer games visible from the air, to cite one) to construct a narrative on how well things are going there. (I bet there weren't many soccer matches in Sadr City today.) McCain prefers simple declarations to data points: "We're winning. I don't care what people say. I've seen the facts on the ground."
The same holds true for the economy. By virtue of his history as a deficit hawk, a foe of earmarks, an opponent of the Bush tax cuts, and the presence of reality-based advisers like Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former director of the Congressional Budget Office, McCain deserves some benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, the brains behind the economic operation seems to be former Sen. Phil Gramm, the Texas A&M economist-turned-senator who confidently forecast in 1993 that the Clinton program of spending cuts and tax increases on the wealthy would be "a one-way ticket to recession." And the sections on McCain's Web site about domestic policy reveal, as Matt Yglesias noted, "a nearly astounding level of vacuity."
Reading McCain's economic agenda, and listening to his speech, it appears that the problem with the last eight years is that we haven't seen enough tax breaks for the wealthy, that economic royalism hasn't been pursued with sufficient vigor, and that the middle and working classes haven't been stiffed sufficiently.
McCain wants to extend the Bush tax cuts, which he once opposed as a needless sop to the rich in a time of war. (I await David Brooks' inevitable explanation of how opposing taxes in a time of war in 2001 and 2003, when deficits were low, but supporting them in 2011, in a time of war and high deficits, is deeply moral and admirable.) But McCain wants to see Bush's tax relief and raise it some. McCain would slash the corporate-income-tax rate from 35 percent to 25 percent (because corporate profits as a percentage of GDP didn't spike enough this decade?), and he'd abolish the Alternative Minimum Tax, which would be a welcome move for many upper-middle-class taxpayers. "In all, his tax-cutting proposals could cost about $400 billion a year, according to estimates of the impact of different tax cuts by CBO and the McCain campaign," the Wall Street Journal reported. And how to make up for the lost revenues? Hmmm. McCain promises to cut earmarks; to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse; and to reduce the projected growth of Medicare; but he won't provide many numbers. As the WSJ deadpanned: "The cost will make it difficult for him to achieve his goal of balancing the budget by the end of his first term." That's perhaps the understatement of the year. The 2009 budget calls for a deficit of $407 billion on projected receipts of $2.7 billion, as this table shows. Essentially, McCain wants to cut revenues by about 15 percent from current levels, with nothing close to that in spending reductions, in a time when, even after spending excess Social Security payroll taxes, the deficit is running at more than $400 billion. Here's some straight talk: McCain's fiscal program is either a joke or a fantasy.
McCain's housing speech, delivered in Orange County, Calif. ground zero of the housing crisis, was a mixed bag. He provided a good description of the problem. But his solution to an era in which financial deregulation set the stage for federal bailouts, rampant speculation, and reckless lending is... less regulation. "Our financial market approach should include encouraging increased capital in financial institutions by removing regulatory, accounting, and tax impediments to raising capital." Bizarrely, he has also joined the chorus arguing that mark-to-market accounting—the rules that require companies to, you know, tell investors the actual market value of assets they hold-should be revisited.
The Federal Reserve and the Bush administration have justified the extraordinary help offered to investment banks and investors by saying that it matters less how we got here and more how we deal with the situation as it is. For McCain, however, it's all about the journey. Poor decisions should not be rewarded-unless those poor decisions are made by really rich people who run investment banks and hedge funds. While "those who act irresponsibly" shouldn't be bailed out as a matter of principle, it's OK to take extraordinary measures to help banks prevent "systemic risk that would endanger the entire financial system and the economy." Obama and Clinton-and the Bush administration, through its various efforts to ease the mortgage crisis-have argued that it might be possible to spare further systemic risk if something was done to buck up the fortunes of homeowners. says McCain. People should just put up more money for down payments and work harder to keep current with their mortgage payments.
Straight talk? No doubt. At a time of rampant economic insecurity and low consumer confidence, at the end of a business cycle in which median incomes didn't rise and the percentage of working people with health insurance fell, McCain won't succumb to the easy temptation of saying that government policy can help improve the situation. But smart politics? I wonder. What's left of the Republican Party is becoming increasingly downscale, and many swing states have been ravaged by the housing crisis (Nevada, Florida) and globalization (Ohio, Michigan). Besides, he's already got the Let-Them-Eat-Cake vote sewed up."
Cute, :) But George had nothing to do with this. Oh, and by the way, I'm still waiting for that plan from ANYONE at this point since Obama obviously hasn't got one to offer except empty words to the tune of follow the piper. So, since no one was named in my posting, little feller, (well, the icon picture of the kid to the left of your posting just HAS to be you!) the person who comes up with a REAL plan to ameliorate the problems of this nation gets my vote! But I'm not holding my breath that it'll be Obama, little tyke. If he had a real plan, he would have proudly introduced it by now instead of just leading us on.Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
You are right, G; Obama has no plan, but worse than that, in a nation with a 'free' press, he has no inquisitors, except racists, bigots, etc. Of course, you know their definition of a bigot: someone winning an argument with a liberal. Obama, like all Dem/Lib/fascists, will never say what he will do because he knows that he will never win the election. So, all we will get from Obama, or anyone else from that side, is soft-shoe tapping around the issues and lies. They know that they will never be elected as "Liberals".Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust
George has proven immature, but I really don't care how much praise you lavish on him. I just want to know from him since he sees Democrats as fascist, if you were one his ideology misfits. Seems you two have a special bond? I hope you embody the representation of McCain campaign strategy for the general election. Between Hebert Walker and Dubya I have had my share of George's lately. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust
I'd dearly love to spend more time chatting about your reading comprehension skills, but to be perfectly straight with you as long as you don't grope or molest children, I think you'll just keep delivering pizza, playing Xbox, and learning movie trivia without being much of a threat to society. It's very telling that you can't give facts for your "solid concrete plan for our economic recovery." You can't even give a rebuttal to the Newsweek piece. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust
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Originally Posted by Gust
Really. Well that's my son in the picture, but if you show up to Vegas you can meet his father. :cool:
Wow! And what makes you think your vote is that important? Good thing for you that voting doesn't include passing a civics test. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust
If you held your breath it probably wouldn't deprive any less oxygen to your brain. It's leadership identification skills like yours that got our nation in trouble in the first place. Some people actually voted for Dubya twice. Wow! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gust
There are only two options for the next president:
1) Clean up the republican debacle.
2) Continue the republican debacle.
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