As I listened to Obama address Republican fears, educating people in general to our country's racist history past and the hope of the future, I couldn't help but think of the past few days I spent, a person of Jewish extraction trying to relate to mostly Republican white Christians and agnostics on the dynamics of the African-American community. Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency. IMO this is yet another reason blacks are more likely to vote Democrat. Even Republican news commentators on Fox gave him high marks for addressing anti-Obama concerns. Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.

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I think that's the salient point.

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Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency.

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Please explain the historical perspective that I evidently lack .

One can read the entire text or watch the video of the speech here.

John McCain represents the past. Clinton, stagnation. Obama, the future.

Yeah, but what is that future he so strongly wants to lead us to? Do you know in any terms rather than wild abstractions…give me something concrete about this new path to walk on into a new future?

Bobby,

Like tom I'm not sure what "historical perspective" I lack, nor did I know there was a Democratic and Republican element of Christianity. We don't go to church and discuss politics, it's never mentioned from the pulpit of my church. We don't go to church and wonder who is a Democrat and who is a Republican. We don't go to church and discuss racial issues, we speak of how everyone is loved in God's eyes. We don't care if you're white, black, Hispanic, Asian or whatever, how you dress, how many tattoos or piercings you have, you're welcome there. We have regular members of all colors, backgrounds, economic status - just about anyone you can imagine. We give to support not only ministries to every area of the globe, but to provide basic needs regardless of who or where you are. We affiliate, worship and work with black churches, white churches and Hispanic churches in our city, and the only slogan I could possibly imagine that we might use similar to Obama's church is "unapologetically Christian."

That is how a church should be, and I imagine more than a few people are shocked to know that Jeremiah Wright's kind of divisive, hateful bilge is being spewed from pulpits across America in the name of Jesus Christ. It's no surprise to me but I'm sure it's been an education for many, and it isn't a pretty one.

Obama has also taught us that preferential treatment to blacks is expected. We can't treat black sin equally as white sin, a Don Imus or Geraldine Ferraro must be expelled and shunned for their slight sins. A racist preacher and his star pupil not only need understanding, forgiveness and acceptance, we must crown the pupil as the only hope of bridging the divide after lying to us about what he knew. We must look past the irony of understanding and embracing the "historical perspective" in order to move to the future with Obama. Here's a hint for Obama, "It's but little good you'll do a-watering the last year's crops. ~George Eliot."

Conservatives have rightly called Obama on this while the liberal media ignored it for as long as they could. All is forgiven now that as ABC radio news put it, "Barack Obama confronts racism today." I've been past racism since childhood, what's taking everyone else so long? When we rid ourselves of the Wrights and other race baiters, and when blacks understand the Democrats are invested in keeping racial fires burning, maybe then we can "move on."

Yep, it's been a real education.

The sharp folks at Sweetness & Light give a perfect example of the inequality and double standards that Obama stands for:

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Obama: Fire Imus

Obama First White House Contender to Call for Imus’ Firing Over Racial Slur

By JAKE TAPPER

April 11, 2007—In an interview with ABC News Wednesday afternoon, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill. called for the firing of talk radio host Don Imus. Obama said he would never again appear on Imus’ show, which is broadcast on CBS Radio and MSNBC television.

“I understand MSNBC has suspended Mr. Imus,” Obama told ABC News, “but I would also say that there’s nobody on my staff who would still be working for me if they made a comment like that about anybody of any ethnic group. And I would hope that NBC ends up having that same attitude.”

Obama said he appeared once on Imus’ show two years ago, and “I have no intention of returning.”

Last week, Imus referred to the Rutgers University women’s basketball team, most of whom are African-American, as “nappy-headed hos.” He has since apologized for his remarks, and CBS and MSNBC suspended his show for two weeks.

“He didn’t just cross the line,” Obama said. “He fed into some of the worst stereotypes that my two young daughters are having to deal with today in America. The notions that as young African-American women — who I hope will be athletes — that that somehow makes them less beautiful or less important. It was a degrading comment. It’s one that I’m not interested in supporting.”

Though every major presidential candidate has decried the racist remarks, Obama is the first one to say Imus should lose his job for them…

“What we’ve been seeing around this country is this constant ratcheting up of a coarsening of the culture that all of have to think about,” Obama said.

“Insults, humor that degrades women, humor that is based in racism and racial stereotypes isn’t fun,” the senator told ABC News.

“And the notion that somehow it’s cute or amusing, or a useful diversion, I think, is something that all of us have to recognize is just not the case. We all have First Amendment rights. And I am a constitutional lawyer and strongly believe in free speech, but as a culture, we really have to do some soul-searching to think about what kind of toxic information are we feeding our kids,” he concluded.

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I wonder how much toxic information was fed to his two daughters at his church.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

please explain the historical perspective that I evidently lack .

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The Black theology part. What else have you been missing? May I suggest Ginko Bolaba? Does wonders for the memory.

OK then I'm willing to learn . What is it about black separatist liberation 'theology 'that is not racist ?

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Originally Posted by tomder55

ok then I'm willing to learn . what is it about black separatist liberation 'theology 'that is not racist ?

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I see you missed part of Barack's educational lecture on history. Here's what I wrote a few days back on the very same subject, Black Theology: "A theology, that was a counter to what I'd describe as hundreds of years of White theology. This stems from a time when slavery was the norm for parts of the US, and black men begin to question what kind of Christians were white slave owners that taught all men were created equal?! From this, today, the message still carries liberal implications on the political front."

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Like tom I'm not sure what "historical perspective" I lack, nor did I know there was a Democratic and Republican element of Christianity. We don't go to church and discuss politics, it's never mentioned from the pulpit of my church..

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Whoa! Stop right there! I can't read any further into your reply. I can't believe you actually wrote that. You found the one Christian church in America not influenced, persuaded, of political ramifications ever? Next your going to tell me the pastor and congregants don't vote? The view of pro-life has never been raised in your church? The view of helping humanity is of no consequence of subject in services? Freedom of religion means nothing to your pastor? Freedom of speech? What the hell! Whole colleges have been formed, some religious, that are adjoined to secular academics. Strong-willed good men became civil lawyers after being raised as children in the environment of churches and synagogues, just to promote the rights of all. Presidential candidates have made remark after remark about their religious upbringing. I'm just astonished at some of the arguments and excuses made by my peers. All I can say is, "WOW!" I'm going to try and let this forgetful moment wear-off and then maybe I'll check back in later after reading some other threads. WOW!

Way to go Bobby. You nailed it!

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Whoa! Stop right there! I can't read any further into your reply. I can't believe you actually wrote that. You found the one Christian church in America not influenced, persuaded, of political ramifications ever?

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Now that's fair, Bobby. First, I'm speaking of what Christianity is about, and Wright's theology is not it. Second, I think I know more of what my church is like and about than anyone else here. I'm not here to lie about it and I darn sure know what a Christian church should be about, I've experienced both the good and bad - but nothing like Wright offers.

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Next your going to tell me the pastor and congregants don't vote? The view of pro-life has never been raised in your church? The view of helping humanity is of no consequence of subject in services?

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Of course the issue of life has been raised in my church, theologically, not politically. I've already said helping humanity is what we're also about, free from political influence and bias.

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Freedom of religion means nothing to your pastor? Freedom of speech? What the hell! Whole colleges have been formed, some religious, that are adjoined to secular academics. Strong-willed good men became civil lawyers after being raised as children in the environment of churches and synagogues, just to promote the rights of all. Presidential candidates have made remark after remark about their religious upbringing. I'm just astonished at some of the arguments and excuses made by my peers. All I can say is, "WOW!" I'm going to try and let this forgetful moment wear-off and then maybe I'll check back in later after reading some other threads. WOW!

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How does what our rights may mean to my pastor necessitate political ramblings from him in the pulpit? Exercising them does not mean he must be offering political rantings from his pulpit, but I think you know that.

Yes, I listened and was scared to death, for 20 years he went to a church, was married by the pastor, and so on, and he did not know what the pastor stood for ?

God help us if he has to choose a Supreme Court Judge if he does not know what his own Pastor stands for.

And of course Obama did not actually address the issues if he believed in what his pastor taugh, and if not why did he continue to go to that church. Even a answer like it was good for his politial carrier.

And I did not know that the Democratic Christians stood for rasist teachings and radical hatred for their country, I guess if they support what Obamas pastor was teaching, that sure explains a lot.

I would say that those that actually want equal rights and actually want the races to get along, have no place with anyone associated with this pastors hatred and rasism.

And it has noting to do with Christianity, since Christianity is not rasist in any terms, and of course Jesus was jewish, from the house of David.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Now that's fair, Bobby. First, I'm speaking of what Christianity is about, and Wright's theology is not it. Second, I think I know more of what my church is like and about than anyone else here. I'm not here to lie about it and I darn sure know what a Christian church should be about, I've experienced both the good and bad - but nothing like Wright offers. Of course the issue of life has been raised in my church, theologically, not politically. I've already said helping humanity is what we're also about, free from political influence and bias. How does what our rights may mean to my pastor necessitate political ramblings from him in the pulpit? Exercising them does not mean he must be offering political rantings from his pulpit, but I think you know that.

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I'm just in wonderment that a pastor in the US could neglect one for the other. A pastor that lives by the laws of the land, which was afforded to us by the Noachide laws. I will not go into the history from a Jewish perspective, but I'm shocked that a pastor appears unaware of Biblical studies. My friend, you're not understanding that Wright affixed his opinion, his view, that he piggy backed on "Black Theology." BTW Obama addressed that today. The theology itself is fairly sound. It's not the theology that is at fault for the comments that you, I, and Obama denounces. Black Theology is taught by many churches, mainly made up of African American congregants, but some Caucasians as well.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

I'm just in wonderment that a pastor in the US could neglect one for the other. A pastor that lives by the laws of the land, which was afforded to us by the Noachide laws. I will not go into the history from a Jewish perspective, but I'm shocked that a pastor appears unaware of Biblical studies. My friend, you're not understanding that Wright affixed his personal opinion, his view, that he piggy backed on "Black Theology." BTW Obama addressed that today. The theology itself is fairly sound. It's not the theology that is at fault for the comments that you, I, and Obama denounces. Black Theology is taught by many churches, mainly made up of African American congregants, but some Caucasians as well.

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Here is the point I neglected to make, Bobby. We view our church as an oasis... we not only go there to worship and serve God, but to escape from the world's stresses, to get away from the politics and nonsense we live with every day. Why would we - or any other worshiper - want to bring that into our sanctuary? That's what shocks and amazes me, that anyone, left, right or center, would want to turn their sanctuary into a political cauldron and that anyone would put up with the hateful, conspiratorial, racist, over the top toxins of a pastor like Wright in the very place they should be going that's free from that sort of thing. I get more than enough of that elsewhere, I darn sure don't want in my 'oasis.' That my pastor sees to it that it is an oasis focused on God speaks highly of his biblical understanding that God is love, peace, rest for our spirit.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Yes, I listened and was scared to death, for 20 years he went to a church, was married by the pastor, and so on, and he did not know what the pastor stood for ?

God help us if he has to choose a Supreme Court Judge if he does not know what his own Pastor stands for.

And of course Obama did not actually adress the issues if he believed in what his pastor taugh, and if not why did he continue to go to that church. Even a answer like it was good for his politial carrier.

And I did not know that the Democratic Christians stood for rasist teachings and radical hatred for thier country, I guess if they support what Obamas pastor was teaching, that sure explains alot.

I would say that those that actually want equal rights and actually want the races to get along, have no place with anyone associated with this pastors hatred and rasism.

And it has noting to do with Christianity, since Christianity is not rasist in any terms, and of course Jesus was jewish, from the house of David.

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I'm hearing about fear that I think is unwarranted. My concerns are recent economics and that's real to most of us, regardless of color. Wright's not running for president, no more than Hagee. Obama did address the issue of Wright's mistaken views today. Perhaps you have the sound down on the TV, or missed relevant parts of the lecture. And about racism it's not something for us to neglect. Other than Ferraro's recent gaff, I don't think Democrats are under fire for racism here though. One more thing, provided that Jesus even existed under the guise of messiah, it's less important that he was Jewish by ethnicity. Moshiach has specific qualifications and according to Judaism, and IMO looking back at the last two thousand years, Jesus didn't meet the criteria. But I understand that you believe that Jesus, according to Christianity, should have no place in racism. On that I agree and respect.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Here is the point I neglected to make, Bobby. We view our church as an oasis...we not only go there to worship and serve God, but to escape from the world's stresses, to get away from the politics and nonsense we live with every day. Why would we - or any other worshiper - want to bring that into our sanctuary? That's what shocks and amazes me, that anyone, left, right or center, would want to turn their sanctuary into a political cauldron and that anyone would put up with the hateful, conspiratorial, racist, over the top toxins of a pastor like Wright in the very place they should be going that's free from that sort of thing. I get more than enough of that elsewhere, I darn sure don't want in my 'oasis.' That my pastor sees to it that it is an oasis focused on God speaks highly of his biblical understanding that God is love, peace, rest for our spirit.

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I can understand that, but it's a church, in the US, not a monk monastery in Tibet. Which BTW monks are not so quite now-in-days. Black churches have had more challenges than predominately non-black churches considering issues in society. OK. I'm getting the idea here that African-American churches and Jewish shuls have more in common with social issues than other Christian congregations.

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Originally Posted by Dark_crow

Yeah, but what is that future he so strongly wants to lead us to? Do you know in any terms rather than wild abstractions…give me something concrete about this new path to walk on into a new future?

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I'm not sure you were asking NeedKarma in Canada, or me? I think it's fairly clear that if NeedKarma could vote it would be for Obama. However, as a US citizen, I can vote and think you've asked a good question.

Most of Obama's main opposition is coming from McCain and Clinton supporters and early on they have focused on three arguments: 1) Obama gives great speeches, but no substance or 2) he doesn't disclose (share) specific views on the issues or 3) he lacks experience to be president.

All three are absurd tactics.

1.) Obama is an educated speaker, no doubt. Both McCain and Clinton are jealous to have Obama's talent. When the opposition brings this up, it's rather a foolish ploy that in actuality means that both McCain and Clinton lack Obama's communication skills. My future is with the communicator.


2.) None of the candidates have given specifics to numerous issues while on stints campaigning. However, I outlined Obama's take on Israel in another post: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politic...er-183587.html. We have learned that McCain would keep on the warpath for one hundred years, and that by his own admission, even though our country is in the midst of a recession the economy issue is not his strongest subject. All the candidates, including Obama, have several websites covering information on most of the top issues and I think we all know how to use the search engine. When the two major party's finally get their nomination represented in the general election they will debate, discuss, and dissect the issues on National TV. Tune in. My future is with someone level headed enough to provide diplocmacy that we have been sorely lacking.

Barack Obama | Change We Can Believe In | Issues

Barack Obama on the Issues

Barack Obama: On the Issues | Presidential Election 2008 - Candidate Profiles, Photos, Quizzes and More | Reader's Digest

Barack Obama - Issues & Ideas - 2008 Presidential Candidate - National Platforms

Election Center 2008: Candidates - Election & Politics News from CNN.com



3.) Last time I checked none of these front-runners have had presidential experience: Hillary Clinton, John McCain, and Barack Obama are all senators. My future is with the highly educated senator that was a civil rights lawyer and understands the challenge to overcome divisiveness.

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

As I listened to Obama address Republican fears, educating people in general to our country's racist history past and the hope of the future, I couldn't help but think of the past few days I spent, a person of Jewish extraction trying to relate to mostly Republican white Christians and agnostics on the dynamics of the African-American community. Those of Democratic Christian persuasion, time and time again understand Christianity in the historical perspective better than their counter parts of Republican constituency. IMO this is yet another reason blacks are more likely to vote Democrat. Even Republican news commentators on Fox gave him high marks for addressing anti-Obama concerns. Here again was proof of optimistic change challenging the old establishment that has entrenched politics as usual.

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And here's some more things to educate Americans with.
Newsmax.com - Obama Minister&#39s Hatred of America

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

And here's some more things to educate Americans with.
Newsmax.com - Obama Minister&#39s Hatred of America

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Hi Sky-

That's old news, but exactly why Obama publicly re-addressed his own thoughts concerning Wright's opinion. I hope you didn't discard the eduction for Republican biases.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Hi Sky-

That's old news, but exactly why Obama publically re-addressed his own thoughts concerning Wright's opinion. I hope you didn't discard the eduction for Republican biases.

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Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most in my opinion. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said?

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There's a photo of everyone with hand over heart and saying the pledge and Pres. Bush has his hands over his crotch. What does THAT mean?

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most imho. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

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Your about 5 threads too late! Keep up!

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most imho. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

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Liberal media? Are you a Rush Windbag missionary? Really! Both CNN and Fox networks have been on Obama like white on rice. Hell there's days I don't want to say the pledge of allegiance either. I hate politicians that want to fake their feelings and gloss over reality. Maybe we should change the pledge of allegiance to the pledge of recession. There's some days I don't even try to fool myself. I just think what the hell happened to my America... it's now the land of ignorance and blabber mouth Republican commentators. Oh! At three o'clock in the morning and someone gets a call, I sure don't want Hillary answering that phone. She's going to be busy trying figure out where her husband's hiding anyway. And dialing up McCain will only rack up long distance charges, his residency will be in Iraq for the next one hundred years. I sure hope he does the patriotic thing and moves there even if he doesn't win the presidency. Go McCain, go.

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Originally Posted by SkyGem

Don't fool yourself. Nothing is "old" news in hot politics! Let's just let the facts speak for itself as this issue continues to unwind and prove to be a revelation for all Americans. Why the "liberal media" has not addressed the Wright issue is what matters most imho. When someone like Obama stays with a church like Wright's for 20 years and doesn't get out while the going is good is beyond me. However, now when the heat is on with the expose' of Wright and his hate-filled speech of America, suddenly Obama is conveniently "distancing" himself from him. Ummm, better give some thought to that! Could the fact that he listened to Wright for so long a time have contributed to Obama not wanting to place his hand over his heart when the Pledge of Allegiance is being said? Or his not wanting to wear an American flag pin? Enough said. Neither Hillary nor McCain would do these things that seriously hurt America and all patriotic Americans.

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You really believe all those scam emails that are circulating? I thought you were smarter than that.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You really believe all those scam emails that are circulating? I thought you were smarter than that.

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Its sad when we are proven wrong isn't it.

Still you did not answer my question about black liberation theology that Rev Wright preaches ;which is much different;more contemporary than the black theology that you say I don't understand. OF course the black church has always been rooted in a sort of political activism .There really was not choice but to organize politically from the pulpit.

To understand it you have to understand the teachings of Rev Wright's mentors James Hal Cone and Dwight Hopkins .(when interviewed by Sean Hannity Rev Wright continuosly mentioned James Cone and Hopkins ) Black liberation theology is rooted in racism as much as any Ayrian "church" .

Bobby ; Both Jew and Christian believe that the worse things that have happened to us is part of God's plan even ifwe do not understand God's purpose. Cone et al reject that argument. They think either God is with them or against them and have created a separate God who fulfills their needs.

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Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

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James Cone.

Here is another snippet from Cone

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In the New Testament, Jesus is not for all, but for the oppressed, the poor and unwanted of society, and against oppressors... Either God is for black people in their fight for liberation and against the white oppressors, or he is not

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God is for the oppressed only .

The question is ;how does black liberation theology influence Obama ? If he is this uniter he claims to be I do not understand how he can square that with a faith that is rooted in the separation and frankly the hate of one race.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Still you did not answer my question about black liberation theology that Rev Wright preaches ;which is much different;more contemporary than the black theology that you say I don't understand. OF course the black church has always been rooted in a sort of political activism .There really was not choice but to organize politically from the pulpit.

To understand it you have to understand the teachings of Rev Wright's mentors James Hal Cone and Dwight Hopkins .(when interviewed by Sean Hannity Rev Wright continuosly mentioned James Cone and Hopkins ) Black liberation theology is rooted in racism as much as any Ayrian "church" .


James Cone.

Here is another snippet from Cone


God is for the oppressed only .

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I can just see you trying to to teach Black Theology. A class room full of African-Americans look up at the old white guy professor as they scratch their heads saying amongst themselves, "being separate from white Christian slave owners that beat us and raped our women, is a bad thing?!" Again Tom you're not understanding the fact that "Black Theology" and "Wrights personal views affixed to the theology" are apples and oranges. This is almost as silly as those whom deny the Holocaust. They are known history revisionist. Again your proving my earlier point that Republican Christians are less likely to understand the African-American communities, than their religious peers in Democrat Christians. Just another reason why most blacks vote Democrat.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The question is ;how does black liberation theology influence Obama?

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I hope it influenced him greatly. Obama was a civil lawyer. I respect the reasoning of Black Theology, it's based on social issues that lead to eventual construction. What ignorant Caucasian "Republican" Fox news commentators like Sean Hannity do not understand the difference between Black theology and Wrights personal views. Hell even that Republican black news commentators understood. See this is how educated people function in life. BTW Obama re-addressed this for the umpteenth time yesterday. Hannity appears more bitter lately than an old white geezer plantation owner that just got news of the proclamation of emancipation.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

If he is this uniter he claims to be I do not understand how he can square that with a faith that is rooted in the separation and frankly the hate of one race.

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No you didn't? Well I had to read that twice! You did! That took some gumption to try and slip that one by me. Obama is now a racist in your view? Obama genetics reads like the United Nations. The guy has no hate towards any race. One side of his family is a white as yours. You're desperate remarks are becoming less reasonable than palatable.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Both Jew and Christian believe that the worse things that have happened to us is part of God's plan even ifwe do not understand God's purpose. Cone et al reject that argument. They think either God is with them or against them and have created a separate God who fulfills their needs.

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That's exactly why Black Thoeology came about. Black men questioned their white "proclaimed Christian" slave owners about equality of being human. Those white slave owners were not serving G-d, they were serving themselves.

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

I can understand that, but it's a church, in the US, not a monk monastery in Tibet. Which BTW monks are not so quite now-in-days. Black churches have had more challenges than predominately non-black churches considering issues in society. OK. I'm getting the idea here that African-American churches and Jewish shuls have more in common with social issues than other Christian congregations.

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I understand that blacks have had more challenges, no doubt, but this 2008, not 1968. I also think there is a difference between addressing social issues and political rants. Of course we address social issues, do you think our kids go to church and not hear messages about sex, dating, depression, drugs, abortion, etc. Or that we don't address alcoholism, marriage, divorce, violence, domestic abuse, and yes, racism? Of course we do, we address the physical, emotional, spiritual and even financial aspects - we minister to the needs of the people. And that is our purpose, to love, minister, heal.

There are also parachurch organizations that address homelessness, racism, equality, rights, legal issues, etc. Are they mentioned from the pulpit? Of course, we can't support them if we don't know they exist or what their mission is. Does a presentation by CareNet mean we're getting political? Not necessarily. Do white churches get political? Absolutely, as do individuals within the church, but when I say "we" I mean my church and I stand by what I said the first time, "we" go there to worship and meet the needs of the people - we don't rant about Bill and Monica and government conspiracies.

What's ironic is just when the left has celebrated the alleged demise of conservative evangelical influence in politics, and after 8 years of slamming Bush and his mixture of religion and politics - we're supposed to have understanding toward Obama, not concern ourselves with how his faith and his pastor may influence his politics and cheer the defense of his relationship with the man. I see a tremendous double standard here, Bobby.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

What's ironic is just when the left has celebrated the alleged demise of conservative evangelical influence in politics, and after 8 years of slamming Bush and his mixture of religion and politics - we're supposed to have understanding toward Obama, not concern ourselves with how his faith and his pastor may influence his politics and cheer the defense of his relationship with the man. I see a tremendous double standard here, Bobby.

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To be perfectly honest, other than the fact that Bush targeted the Bible Belt heavily in both elections, I'm not sure what personal view of Christianity he understands. I hear him use innuendo about faith and G-d occasionally in speeches. At one time I think he referenced he heard from G-d concerning war. Personally I think he hears from himself; some of his decisions have proved disastrous.

Bobby I keep on trying differentiate between black theology and black liberation theology .I showed thje difference and you are unwilling to see it. Instead you justify anything the loon Wright says based on some kind of historical injustice that is completely besides the point.

I have decided to unsubscribe to all these Obama postings related to his pastor and his participation in this racist church. Obama is trying to be the President of all the people .My advice to him would be to disassociate himself to this because as his speech proved yesterday ;he is more than willing to throw his white grandma under the bus to cater to a narrow constituency .

I wonder if Obama knows about the New Black Panther Party page of my.BarackObama? You can view their 10 Point Platform here.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Bobby I keep on trying differentiate between black theology and black liberation theology .I showed thje difference and you are unwilling to see it. Instead you justify anything the loon Wright says based on some kind of historical injustice that is completely besides the point.

I have decided to unsubscribe to all these Obama postings related to his pastor and his participation in this racist church. Obama is trying to be the President of all the people .My advice to him would be to disassociate himself to this because as his speech proved yesterday ;he is more than willing to throw his white grandma under the bus to cater to a narrow constituency .

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Tom, you can unsubscribe if you like. It's nothing personal, we just disagree. IMO Obama is very educated and brings a broader understanding that some are not yet willing to accept. Maybe our society is not fully ready and obviously he has his detractors. I like him though and if he doesn't become our next president, so be it.

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NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY represents Freedom, Justice, and Peace for all of Mankind. Welcome to the Official Website of The New Black Panther Party for Self Defense

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And your point would be?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

And your point would be??

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It was a simple question. Does he know? Does he care? Is he proud of their endorsement or will he distance himself, renounce their platform and banish them from his website? I'm curious, aren't you?

Huh? Does John McCain know about the KKK or a gillion other extreme groups? Pinch me! Are these real questions?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

It was a simple question. Does he know? Does he care? Is he proud of their endorsement or will he distance himself, renounce their platform and banish them from his website? I'm curious, aren't you?

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I am content to wait and see what happens as this looks like a public forum, as anyone can join. Free publicity if you have a cause.

Join the Network

Not a member? Would you like to have your own My.BarackObama.Com page? Join the Network!

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Originally Posted by BABRAM

Huh?! Does John McCain know about the KKK or a gillion other extreme groups? Pinch me! Are these real questions?

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LOL, Bobby, read the question. Has the KKK endorsed McCain and joined the McCainSpace online community? As far I know they haven't, unlike the New Black Panther Party which has endorsed Obama and joined the my.Barack.com online community. I just wonder if Obama knows that and welcomes their endorsement. After this past week he might want to look into that.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Instead you justify anything the loon Wright says based on some kind of historical injustice that is completely besides the point.

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Sounds like what you guys do with Mr Bush.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I have decided to unsubscribe to all these Obama postings related to his pastor and his participation in this racist church. Obama is trying to be the President of all the people .My advice to him would be to disassociate himself to this because as his speech proved yesterday ;he is more than willing to throw his white grandma under the bus to cater to a narrow constituency .

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Your just taking your bat and ball and going home because Bobby is giving you an ar$e whooping and you don't like it! Come on Tom, your better than that. Your one of the best here at making your point. Just because others may be making a better one doesn't mean you have to run!

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Originally Posted by Skell

Your just taking your bat and ball and going home because Bobby is giving you an ar$e whooping and you dont like it! Come on Tom, your better than that. Your one of the best here at making your point. Just because others may be making a better one doesnt mean you have to run!

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In your opinion; my opinion is much different:

Racism is itself a central doctrine in traditional Judaism and Black Liberation Theology…the breathtaking arrogance of both.

EDIT: I will add Islam to that.

Add any religion to that as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by Skell

Your about 5 threads too late! Keep up!

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I am keeping up. This matter will simply NOT go away, it can't. It's simply too important for the American people to know and understand about Obama. He may try hiding behind sheep's clothing at this point but he can't deny staying with the good Rev. for 20 years and hearing him espouse his hateful rhetoric and not leaving until just recently, that is, if he even really did that. It's not something one can say... aww, the little child didn't know any better. Obama opened this door by not wanting to walk out on Wright while he still had the chance and *denounce* him for his anti-American stance. Instead, he had him as his Spiritual Advisor until he was CAUGHT by the media! And now, he wants us to believe that he is so against what Wright stood up for and he supported for all these years? Guess this is the kind of CHANGE He Was Talking About that He Wants for Us to TRULY BELIEVE IN in order to try to pull the wool over our eyes! Close, but no cigar! It's called Be With Him Until You Get Caught, Then Attempt to Disown Him and Hope the Voters Are Naïve Enough to Believe It. No doubt about that. He was CAUGHT -- no denying the facts from now on for Obama. Obama Has Got To Go! He is bad for America and the more conversation we have about this, the more people will realize why OBAMA NEEDS TO GO!

Now, there are further controversies surrounding Obama. Just go to:

ABC News: Online news, breaking news, feature stories and more

We don't need a man like this in the White House. Think of our children should he be sitting in the White House one day, say about eight years from now *if* people let him. Children tend to emulate the President. Just for a moment imagine them going to school the very next day and not holding their hand to their heart during the Pledge of Allegiance because they see Obama refuses to do it or read that he refused while running for office. And for a man running for President to say he cannot dismiss Wright as a friend seeing that he has said such bad and condemning things against America, our country? A proud, patriotic American who Loves and Believes in his country would have run like heck the moment that preacher started preaching hate against this country and never turned back! No doubt about it. But that can only speak VOLUMES for this man and Obama who follows him like a lost little puppy.

Do you have something else besides what's been run over and over? If you do bring it for all to see.