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  • Dec 4, 2007, 08:16 PM
    Baby-_-Girl-_-19
    Contraception in schools
    For school we're having to write a persuasive paper on a topic of our chosing. I recently had to switch mine because, I was having issues finding information on my other topic. The topic I got switchted to is 'Contraception in schools' basically whether school nurses should or should be allowed to give out contraceptives, confidetially and at low cost. Just out of curiosity more than anything I was wondering what Other people thought about this topic. Any of your opinions would be apretiated, and/or imformation that could help me with my paper...
  • Dec 4, 2007, 08:51 PM
    charlotte234s
    I think that once this kids are around high school age, that condoms should be available to them through a school nurse, pehaps, and birth control if the girl is at least 16-17, most health clinics will give out condoms and have birth control available cheaply for young girls confidentially. However, I don't think they should be passing out condoms during home room, people say it will encourage sex, well they should make them available but not force them on kids. And as for children who are like 12, they don't need to be having sex, if the parent did anywhere close to a decent job parenting, they wouldn't even be considering having sex until they are several years older, I don't think we need to be giving condoms or BC to them.
  • Dec 5, 2007, 03:44 AM
    RickJ
    I say stop letting the schools take decisions like this away from the parents. Schools should be giving education, not contraceptives.
  • Dec 5, 2007, 10:24 AM
    magprob
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RickJ
    I say stop letting the schools take decisions like this away from the parents. Schools should be giving education, not contraceptives.

    There it is there.
  • Dec 5, 2007, 04:02 PM
    charlotte234s
    I don't know, the schools don't want to offend parents by offering education, they often have to have permission to learn about contraception, and many schools have abstinence only programs and those are obviously failing, and many, many studies have proven that.
  • Dec 5, 2007, 09:06 PM
    jillianleab
    There was a recent thread about this:

    https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politi...es-142731.html

    You can see people express opinions on both sides.
  • Dec 6, 2007, 06:08 AM
    tomder55
    Presumably every child in school has a parent or a legal guardian . Before the school distributes contraception of any kind; it should be a requirement that the parent /guardian signs a healthcare proxy waver to the school specific to the distribution of contraceptives. The general waiver currently used that alows the school to give the kid an aspirin should not be sufficient.
  • Dec 6, 2007, 06:24 AM
    NeedKarma
    I agree with Tom. (Is that the seventh sign? :D)
  • Dec 6, 2007, 06:38 AM
    Synnen
    I don't think the Pill should be available through schools, but condoms should be there for anyone who has the balls to ask the school nurse for them.

    The REASON I don't think schools should be giving out the birth control pill is because I believe you should have a full medical examination, plus talk to a doctor about everything ELSE you're taking/doing. Some medications interact badly with others, and I believe (but I am not sure) that there are some that would render the Pill useless.

    Because of the fact that it is medication, I don't want the school providing MEDICATION to my child without my consent. If my kid wanted information--well, that's different.

    I believe the schools should be teaching sex-ed, and that it should be a heck of a lot more comprehensive than "Don't have SEX! It's bad! You'll get a disease or get pregnant or BOTH!". But once we open the doors to schools being able to provide birth control pills without our consent, what OTHER medications will they be able to give out without parental consent?
  • Dec 6, 2007, 06:52 AM
    charlotte234s
    Yeah, abstinence only sex ed is just propagating ignorance and putting kids lives at risk because they know nothing. Knoledge won't force kids to have sex if they don't want to in the first place, and it won't hurt them either.
  • Dec 6, 2007, 08:53 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RickJ
    I say stop letting the schools take decisions like this away from the parents. Schools should be giving education, not contraceptives.
    Another ditto from me. I cannot fathom schools such as those in Maine and Denver wanting to give prescription birth control and even emergency contraception to teens, and at least in the case of Denver the responsibility falling to "High school principals in consultation with health centers' staff."

    I thought principals were educators, not doctors. The proponents of this nonsense are "pro-choice" and yet their goal is to take choice away from the parents that are responsible for raising these children, and that is unacceptable.
  • Dec 6, 2007, 09:11 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlotte234s
    Yeah, abstinence only sex ed is just propagating ignorance and putting kids lives at risk because they know nothing.

    Can anyone prove that? If so, how? How many kids do you think don't know about condoms?
  • Dec 6, 2007, 09:59 AM
    jillianleab
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    Can anyone prove that? If so, how? How many kids do you think don't know about condoms?

    I haven't read all of this, but you might want to check this document out for the problems with abstinence only education.

    http://oversight.house.gov/Documents...2153-50247.pdf

    They're lying to the kids, speech; they aren't giving them the information they need to make healthy decisions. And just because you know about condoms doesn't mean you know enough to use them properly. Poke around on the pregnancy and sexuality forums here, and you'll see just how UN-educated teens are about sex, contraception and pregnancy. That's the result of current education systems not working.
  • Dec 6, 2007, 10:23 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    First Rise in U.S. Teen Births Since '91

    By MIKE STOBBE – 15 hours ago

    ATLANTA (AP) — In a troubling reversal, the nation's teen birth rate rose for the first time in 15 years, surprising government health officials and reviving the bitter debate about abstinence-only sex education.

    The birth rate had been dropping since its peak in 1991, although the decline had slowed in recent years. On Wednesday, government statisticians said it rose 3 percent from 2005 to 2006.

    The reason for the increase is not clear, and federal health officials said it might be a one-year statistical blip, not the beginning of a new upward trend.

    However, some experts said they have been expecting a jump. They blamed it on increased federal funding for abstinence-only health education that doesn't teach teens how to use condoms and other contraception.

    Some key sexually transmitted disease rates have been rising, including syphilis, gonorrhea and chlamydia. The rising teen pregnancy rate is part of the same phenomenon, said Dr. Carol Hogue, an Emory University professor of maternal and child health.

    "It's not rocket science," she said.

    At the same time, some research suggests teens are using condoms far more often than they did 15 years ago.

    The new teen birth numbers are based on the 15-19 age group of women, which accounted for most of the 440,000 births to teens in 2006. The rate rose to nearly 42 births per 1,000 in that group, up from 40.5 in 2005. That translates to an extra 20,000 births to teen mothers.

    In 1991, the peak year for teen births, there were nearly 62 births per 1,000.

    The new report is based on a review of more than 99 percent of the birth certificates from last year by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    The report, released Wednesday, quickly took on political implications.

    Opponents of abstinence-based programs seized on the data as evidence of wrong-headed government policy.

    "Congress needs to stop knee-jerk approving abstinence-only funding when it's clear it's not working," said U.S. Rep. Diana DeGette, D-Colo. who is pushing for more comprehensive sex education.

    The new report offers a state-by-state breakdown of birth rates overall. Many of those with the highest birth rates teach abstinence instead of comprehensive sex education, according to the Planned Parenthood Federation of America.

    And research has concluded that abstinence-only programs do not cause a decrease in teenage sexual activity, Planned Parenthood officials added.

    "In the last decade, more than $1 billion has been wasted on abstinence-only programs," said Cecile Richards, the organization's president, in a prepared statement.

    Decreased condom use and increased sexual activity are two likely explanations for the higher teen birth rate. But not all data supports those theories, said John Santelli, a professor of population and family health at Columbia University's school of public health.

    For example, a biannual government survey of high school students found that the percentage of those who said they used a condom the last time they had sex rose to 63 percent in 2005, up from 46 percent in 1991.

    Contraceptive-focused sex education is still common, and the new teen birth numbers reflect it's failing, argued Moira Gaul of the Family Research Council, a conservative advocacy organization in Washington, D.C.
    Condom use among teens has risen 17 percent and yet teen births and STD's are rising. Furthermore, according to government reports back in July, fewer teens are having sex.

    Quote:

    In 2005, 47 percent of high school students -- 6.7 million -- reported having had sexual intercourse, down from 54 percent in 1991.
    If more kids are using condoms and fewer kids are having sex, why are teen births and STD's rising? Note this report from Contraceptive Information Resource on teen birth control failure rates.

    8.1 percent use no method of birth control.
    8.5 percent use male condoms, 17.7 fail after one year, 27.5 percent fail after two
    16.7 percent us oral contraceptives, 8.6 fail after one year, 14 percent fail after two
    0.6 percent use contraceptive patch, 8.6 fail after one year 14 percent fail after two 4.4 percent use Depo-Provera, 4.3 fail after one year, 8.5 percent fail after two
    56.2 percent use abstinence, there are zero failures
  • Dec 6, 2007, 10:42 AM
    jillianleab
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    Condom use among teens has risen 17 percent and yet teen births and STD's are rising. Furthermore, according to government reports back in July, fewer teens are having sex.

    Kids lie, especially teenagers. Also, condoms aren't 100% effective, everyone knows that. Teens especially are going to be more likely to use them inconsistently or improperly. They also might use condoms that are expired, don't fit, or otherwise should not have been used.

    Quote:

    56.2 percent use abstinence, there are zero failures[/INDENT]
    Of course abstinence has a zero failure rate. But that doesn't mean that current abstinence only education is the right way to be educating our kids. Read the link I posted; you can see for yourself the medical inaccuracies and manipulation of statistics in those programs. Should kids wait until adulthood or marriage before having sex? Absolutely. Should they be given accurate, factual information about contraceptives, STDs and pregnancy? Absolutely. Abstinence only programs DON'T DO THAT.
  • Dec 6, 2007, 10:52 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    56.2 percent use abstinence, there are zero failures

    Did you know that 100% of people who don't drive cars do not have car insurance??
  • Dec 6, 2007, 11:16 AM
    parttime
    Again I say, facts are useless, they can be used to prove anything.
  • Dec 7, 2007, 12:35 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by parttime
    again I say, facts are useless, they can be used to prove anything.

    With all due respect that's just plain silly. Facts are that which is actually true.
  • Dec 7, 2007, 12:52 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jillianleab
    Kids lie, especially teenagers. Also, condoms aren't 100% effective, everyone knows that. Teens especially are going to be more likely to use them inconsistently or improperly. They also might use condoms that are expired, don't fit, or otherwise should not have been used.

    I've already conceded previously that kids lie, and I'd be foolish to believe there are kids that don't know how to use a condom, but that does not justify any outside organization undermining parental authority, rights and values.

    Quote:

    Of course abstinence has a zero failure rate. But that doesn't mean that current abstinence only education is the right way to be educating our kids. Read the link I posted; you can see for yourself the medical inaccuracies and manipulation of statistics in those programs. Should kids wait until adulthood or marriage before having sex? Absolutely. Should they be given accurate, factual information about contraceptives, STDs and pregnancy? Absolutely. Abstinence only programs DON'T DO THAT.
    I have never said I support "current" abstinence education. In fact, I believe public schools should be teaching reading, writing and arithmetic and leave the rest for responsible parents to decide. Yeah, I know that leaves those kids who don't have responsible parents and that is a problem, but for the millions of responsible moms dads out there the government has no business intruding in personal areas such as sex and teaching or espousing values that run counter to the parents.

    That's what the very proponents of sex education expect when it comes to religion and political values in school - and the "right to choose" (or right to privacy, however they look at it today) for both minors and adults - it's only fair and consistent for them to respect the right of parents to choose how to raise their children as well without interference and subversion.
  • Dec 7, 2007, 05:21 PM
    charlotte234s
    Can anyone prove that? If so, how? How many kids do you think don't know about condoms?


    George Washington University did a study on the results after abstinence only sex-ed and found it to be failing. And honestly, in my high school there were abstinence only sex ed and some kids did not understand proper condom usage or thought that one birth control pill would protect them from pregnancy. It was an outrage, theywere screwing these kids by not teaching them right.
  • Dec 7, 2007, 05:22 PM
    jillianleab
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    I have never said I support "current" abstinence education. In fact, I believe public schools should be teaching reading, writing and arithmetic and leave the rest for responsible parents to decide. Yeah, I know that leaves those kids who don't have responsible parents and that is a problem, but for the millions of responsible moms dads out there the government has no business intruding in personal areas such as sex and teaching or espousing values that run counter to the parents.

    The millions of responsible parents out there can opt their kids out of the programs. It's the millions of IRresponsible parents out there who make organizations like PP necessary.

    Quote:

    That's what the very proponents of sex education expect when it comes to religion and political values in school - and the "right to choose" (or right to privacy, however they look at it today) for both minors and adults - it's only fair and consistent for them to respect the right of parents to choose how to raise their children as well without interference and subversion.
    Again, the fairness comes with the parents having the ability to opt their kids out of the programs. I fully support that, and if my kid went to a school that taught abstinence-only, you bet your a$$ I'd opt them out.

    I think we're meshing threads here, speech! :)
  • Dec 7, 2007, 05:22 PM
    charlotte234s
    And obviously these kids parents were failing them, too, as pregnancy was like 7 of 60 girlsbefore my class graduated... and if no one watches out for these kids, shouldn't the school do it?
  • Dec 7, 2007, 09:50 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jillianleab
    The millions of responsible parents out there can opt their kids out of the programs. It's the millions of IRresponsible parents out there who make organizations like PP necessary.

    Surely you can guess I don't think PP is necessary at all :D

    Quote:

    Again, the fairness comes with the parents having the ability to opt their kids out of the programs. I fully support that, and if my kid went to a school that taught abstinence-only, you bet your a$$ I'd opt them out.
    Works for me. Now if both sides would get that through their thick skulls we might begin to get somewhere :)
  • Dec 7, 2007, 09:57 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlotte234s
    Can anyone prove that? If so, how? How many kids do you think don't know about condoms?


    George Washington University did a study on the results after abstinence only sex-ed and found it to be failing. And honestly, in my high school there were abstinence only sex ed and some kids did not understand proper condom usage or thought that one birth control pill would protect them from pregnancy. It was an outrage, theywere screwing these kids by not teaching them right.

    Charlotte, it's interesting that so many have raised the issue of the "failure" of abstinence only education when responding to me, as I haven't advocated abstinence only education. I don't think our government should be teaching either, especially since they can't even seem to be able to teach kids basic math.
  • Dec 7, 2007, 10:03 PM
    charlotte234s
    I'm not saying you did, I'm saying that they need to teach contraception. I'm saying that condoms should be available to kids.
  • Dec 7, 2007, 10:07 PM
    charlotte234s
    PP isn't necessary?

    Why not just teach kids that having sex makes their penises fall off and that you sex makes them go to Hell.

    Ignorance will never help anyone. PP helps people learn, gives them help, gives them options and choices. I think although I'm a Christian that church programs aren't necessary personally, but I don't make the decisions for the world and neither do you, so before you say something isn't necessary put yourself in the shoes of the people who benefit from it.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 07:15 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlotte234s
    I'm not saying you did, I'm saying that they need to teach contraception. I'm saying that condoms should be available to kids.

    Um, they are.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 07:22 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlotte234s
    PP isn't necessary?

    Why not just teach kids that having sex makes their penises fall off and that you sex makes them go to Hell.

    LOL, I love it when people take it to the extreme for no apparent reason.

    Quote:

    Ignorance will never help anyone. PP helps people learn, gives them help, gives them options and choices. I think although I'm a Christian that church programs aren't necessary personally, but I don't make the decisions for the world and neither do you, so before you say something isn't necessary put yourself in the shoes of the people who benefit from it.
    I'm not trying to make decisions for the world, I just gave my opinion. My opinion is PP is an evil, subversive organization responsible for the deaths of more children in this country than anyone else. I find they're hiding behind "health care" an insult to the human race, and their continued support for the erosion of parental authority to be just what you complain of - making decisions for others.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 10:09 AM
    jillianleab
    [QUOTE=speechlesstx]Surely you can guess I don't think PP is necessary at all :D [QUOTE]

    I know you don't, but you think that, it seems, because of your negative experience with them. You appear to ignore the GOOD they have done, or could do. You don't appear to acknowledge the women in this country who don't have a support system at home, who don't have anyone educating them about sex and who, in a time of need have an organization to go to. Not everyone comes from a loving, supportive family who will be there for you in your time of need. These girls need to have someone to turn to for information on women's health and their options in accidental pregnancy situations. Would Planned Parenthood by any other name be as evil?

    I know you had a bad (horrible) experience with PP, but, in my opinion, that one instance doesn't make the entire organization "evil". Perhaps if I knew the intimate details of your experience I would change my mind, but given what I know, I don't think PP is the only party at fault.

    Quote:

    My opinion is PP is an evil, subversive organization responsible for the deaths of more children in this country than anyone else. I find they're hiding behind "health care" an insult to the human race, and their continued support for the erosion of parental authority to be just what you complain of - making decisions for others.
    Now who's taking it to the extreme? ;)
  • Dec 8, 2007, 10:17 AM
    s_cianci
    I don't think they should.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 10:45 AM
    charlotte234s
    Why is planned parenthood evil? Because they offer abortion services to women? So now, not only can a girl not get a condom at school or BC through the school nurse, but she can't find help if she wants to abort the baby she created because of her lack of information or assistance. I wasn't taking anything to the extreme, I was mocking the way you sound. I'm not saying give condoms and BC to 12 year old, but to girls in high school, definitely, their parents may not support them and may not allow them to do what they need to do to protect themselves because they are trying to keep them from doing something they're obviously going to anyway.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 11:42 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    My opinion is PP is an evil, subversive organization responsible for the deaths of more children in this country than anyone else.

    That sounds like someone harboring a lot of anger and hatred.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 01:22 PM
    stonewilder
    Think about the world we live in today. There is influences every where that tells kids that sex is fun, it feels good, it's a game, it makes you a grown up and there is no consequences. And yes I will say it…parents plays a big part in what kids do with their spare time. You put satellite TV in the kids room to watch what ever they please. You let them listen to sexually explicit music. You give them there own cell phones and computers with out keeping track of what they are doing and who they are talking to. You get divorces and have your boyfriend/ girlfriends stay over while your children are in the next room. You are so busy trying to keep up with the Jones you don't have time to keep up with where your kids are or what they are doing. You fool yourselves into thinking that a 13 year old is mature enough to make the right decision and forget that they are still kids. You give them freedoms at 13 to run around and do as they please that 16 year olds probably shouldn't have. If other parents or teachers confront you about your child's behavior you go into a rampage, “ Not my little angel!” God forbid that they might need a hand on the butt as a form of punishment once in a while….Oh no that's abuse! You treat them like little miniature adults they are not, they are kids! You don't see what is right in front of your eyes, you don't listen to them when they speak and you are embarrassed to talk to them about sex. Then you wonder why they are having sex! Sure there are exceptions where teen girls and boys end up with babies even though their parents did everything right, but in general as long as we have public schools with kids who's parents are not being responsible this will go on forever. Now that I got that off my chest….
    Statistics shows that a lot of teens have sex by the time they are 14. It is better they know how to protect them self's from HIV, pregnancy and STD's and they need to have access to the tools to protect themselves if they do decide to have sex.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 01:25 PM
    charlotte234s
    Besides, if they're going to do it, they're going to do it, there's a point where a kid starts taking their own chances and making their own decisions and sometimes it doesn't matter what the parents do. Keeping them ignorant and unable to get protection is just stupid.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 03:07 PM
    Synnen
    Aside from the moral implications of this entire conversation--who knows a teen that did/does NOT have the attitude "It happens, but statistics show that it probably won't happen to ME. Especially not if I'm CAREFUL!"

    They apply that to their sex lives, their driving, their attitude towards death.
  • Dec 8, 2007, 06:13 PM
    jillianleab
    It's not just condoms anymore, stonewilder. There is a school in Maine which is providing birth control pills to pre-teens. That's where the bigger controversy lies.

    FOXNews.com - School Board Approves Birth Control Prescriptions at Maine Middle School - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News
  • Dec 8, 2007, 07:05 PM
    stonewilder
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jillianleab
    It's not just condoms anymore, stonewilder. There is a school in Maine which is providing birth control pills to pre-teens. That's where the bigger controversy lies.

    FOXNews.com - School Board Approves Birth Control Prescriptions at Maine Middle School - Health News | Current Health News | Medical News


    Ok I missed that part of it. I can admit that passing out birth control pills is taking it a step too far with out the parents permission. I say that for two reasons. One a parent needs to know what medications their kids are on and two, if they are using birth control that means they aren't likely to be using the condoms.
  • Dec 10, 2007, 08:35 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    That sounds like someone harboring a lot of anger and hatred.

    The word is contempt. :D
  • Dec 10, 2007, 09:09 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlotte234s
    Why is planned parenthood evil? Because they offer abortion services to women?

    For my personal beef with PP, click here.

    Quote:

    So now, not only can a girl not get a condom at school or BC through the school nurse, but she can't find help if she wants to abort the baby she created because of her lack of information or assistance.
    Seriously now, since when is it the school's place to manage youth's sex lives? You don't find it a little disturbing that a 15 year old girl can't get a drivers license, can't buy a beer, a cigarette or go to an R-rated movie but it's OK for her to get an abortion? There's something very wrong with that, and very wrong with such a callous disregard for human life, for that "baby she created" that people would actually defend abortions for kids for the sake of convenience.

    Quote:

    I wasn't taking anything to the extreme, I was mocking the way you sound. I'm not saying give condoms and BC to 12 year old, but to girls in high school, definitely, their parents may not support them and may not allow them to do what they need to do to protect themselves because they are trying to keep them from doing something they're obviously going to anyway.
    Mocking, even better, lol. It's interesting how anyone that shows deserved contempt for PP and the chaos they've helped create gets mocked. Do you not find it ironic and inconsistent to mock me for fighting for the right to privacy - the right for parents to raise their children without government or Planned Parenthood interference - while a group that bases its abortion defense on "privacy rights" fights against that parental right to privacy?

    Here's the thing on your last point - it's not just justifying this condom giveaway because "they're obviously going to anyways" - it's a surrender. Why should we surrender to the possibility of a future of guilt, shame, torment for our children? Why should we just give up and say "they're obviously going to anyways?" Aren't they worth more than that?
  • Dec 10, 2007, 09:12 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Synnen
    Aside from the moral implications of this entire conversation--who knows a teen that did/does NOT have the attitude "It happens, but statistics show that it probably won't happen to ME. Especially not if I'm CAREFUL!"

    They apply that to their sex lives, their driving, their attitude towards death.

    You are absolutely right, and that's a big reason why I would never trust my children in the hands of PP or the government.

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