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  • Nov 28, 2007, 08:49 AM
    excon
    The Discombobulator
    Hello:

    Even you loyal Bushies had to be embarrassed a little bit yesterday. When introducing the beligerents attending his peace conference, our dufus in chief absolutely RUINED the names of Ehud Olmert, and Macmood Abbas. And, I don't mean a little...

    I think if he cared, he could have practiced. I mean he really could have! These are peoples NAMES... Important people. If it would have been me, I'd have been insulted that he couldn't be bothered to learn my name. But, that's me.

    Do you think they were? Wouldn't you be? Do you even care that he did that?

    excon
  • Nov 28, 2007, 09:02 AM
    RubyPitbull
    Yes, I care. I don't like it when someone misspells my first name, much less mispronounces it! ;) hehe (for anyone reading it, this is an inside joke betw me and excon).
  • Nov 28, 2007, 09:08 AM
    tomder55
    I on the other hand am used to people mispronouncing my name. It is a 10 letter name of Italian origin and very few people get it right the first time.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 09:16 AM
    RubyPitbull
    Getting back to Bush, I think if he wants to be effective with foreign heads of state, taking the time to learn the correct pronunciation is the least he could do. I believe, although we know it isn't intentional, it would be interpreted by those people that he doesn't think they are important enough to the process.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 09:21 AM
    tomder55
    Quick... pronounce the name Gurbanguly Berdymukhammedov President of Turkmenistan!
  • Nov 28, 2007, 09:28 AM
    RubyPitbull
    Okay. I did that. Now what? Are you going to tell me I pronounced it wrong? LOL.

    When someone is in Bush's position he already knows ahead of time he is going to a peace conference and who will be attending. If he is pressed for time, he could always practice the names while he is shaving or sitting on the toilet. By the way, I would say that about anyone who is the President. Although I know that excon likes to find the soft spot and dig in heartily when it comes to Bush, I think it is any Commander-in-Chief's job to ensure they make themselves look as sharp as possible and at the top of his game in the eyes of the rest of the world. This was a very bad way to start the talks.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 09:30 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55
    quick ..... pronounce the name Gurbanguly Berdymukhammedov President of Turkmenistan !!

    Hello again tom:

    So, you're making excuses for the dufus, huh? I could have figured.

    The point IS, if I was the Head of State, instead of an exconvict on the internet, I would have taken the TIME necessary and I would HAVE the experts around me, to make SURE that the name was spoken correctly in public. But again, that's just me.

    Frankly, I'm appalled. Even when I'm USED to it, I'm appalled!

    excon
  • Nov 28, 2007, 09:42 AM
    tomder55
    And yet in spite of President Bush screwing up the names ;the two leaders came to an agreement to continue discussions and "they are ready for hard bargaining toward an independent Palestinian state ". Perhaps the name thing is not a big deal to anyone except those afflicted with BDS.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 10:04 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55
    "they are ready for hard bargaining toward an independent Palestinian state ". Perhaps the name thing is not a big deal to anyone except those afflicted with BDS.

    Hello again, tom:

    If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you...

    You becha I've got BDS. If it's got to do with alerting the world about the mistakes of the dufus in chief, that's me.

    What is it? Bush Disgust Syndrome??

    excon
  • Nov 28, 2007, 10:06 AM
    RubyPitbull
    LOL Tom! Of course they are going to agree to "continue discussions"! LOL what does that and "hard bargaining" REALLY mean to them anyway? "Perhaps the name thing" is a big deal to them and they are planning on sticking it to us and each other good and hard when the opportunity arises during the "hard bargaining" process. LOL.

    P.S. I don't know what BDS stands for. Sorry.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 10:36 AM
    speechlesstx
    ex,

    Don't misunderestimate his ability to mangle a word - no matter the circumstance. Yeah it would have annoyed me, too - just like the mass marketers that think I'm either Steye or Stevben. Heck, the State of New Mexico issued our company a "Certifcate of Fitness" as our company's fire alarm license. And my goodness, have you ever watched a TV program with the closed captioning on?

    Of course Bush should have been able to pronounce their names, but really, if it hasn't caused a stir with those guys why are you so upset?

    Steve

    P.S. BDS=Bush Derangement Syndrome
  • Nov 28, 2007, 10:40 AM
    tomder55
    Here is the first column that BDS was ever mentioned .Credit Charles Krauthammer(a former doctor /now political pundit) with coining the term. The Delusional Dean (washingtonpost.com)

    Quote:

    Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush.
    Quote:

    Until now, Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) had generally struck people with previously compromised intellectual immune systems. Hence its prevalence in Hollywood. Barbra Streisand, for example, wrote her famous September 2002 memo to Gephardt warning that the president was dragging us toward war to satisfy, among the usual corporate malefactors who "clearly have much to gain if we go to war against Iraq," the logging industry -- timber being a major industry in a country that is two-thirds desert.

    It is true that BDS has struck some pretty smart guys -- Bill Moyers ranting about a "right-wing wrecking crew" engaged in "a deliberate, intentional destruction of the United States way of governing" and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, whose recent book attacks the president so virulently that Krugman's British publisher saw fit to adorn the cover with images of Vice President Cheney in a Hitler-like mustache and Bush stitched up like Frankenstein. Nonetheless, some observers took that to be satire; others wrote off Moyers and Krugman as simple aberrations, the victims of too many years of neurologically hazardous punditry.

    That's what has researchers so alarmed about Dean. He had none of the usual risk factors: Dean has never opined for a living and has no detectable sense of humor. Even worse is the fact that he is now exhibiting symptoms of a related illness, Murdoch Derangement Syndrome (MDS), in which otherwise normal people believe that their minds are being controlled by a single, very clever Australian.

    Quote:

    The sad news is that there is no cure. But there is hope. There are many fine researchers seeking that cure. Your donation to the BDS Foundation, no matter how small, can help.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 10:43 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    why are you so upset?

    Hello Steve:

    Because when he speaks to the world, he represents ME. I DON'T talk like that, and I DIDN’T go to Harvard.

    It ISN'T policy, Steve. It's speech. I hated Ronny RayGun's policies - but he made me proud when he spoke.

    excon
  • Nov 28, 2007, 10:59 AM
    RubyPitbull
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    Of course Bush should have been able to pronounce their names, but really, if it hasn't caused a stir with those guys why are you so upset?

    P.S. BDS=Bush Derangement Syndrome

    I had to go change my tightie whities just now because I PMSL. That BDS definition is hilarious!

    Hey Steve, how do you know it didn't cause a stir with those guys? We all know that Excon likes to poke the bear and he will do anything he can to rile you guys up. But, we really don't have any idea what those guys are thinking or feeling. They aren't stoopid (sp on purpose) enough to fly off the handle at a peace conference. Now, maybe if it was Osama, that might be a different story. He is rather vocal even when he isn't insulted straight to his face. Let's see how those "hard bargaining" discussions go, shall we? Hmmm? Maybe it has to do with the fact that Israel and the U.S. are such strong allies that they are being extremely careful not to display any signs of emotions or distress. I would also keep everything close to the vest if I knew someone I was dealing with was in bed with my enemy. Maybe they do view his mangling of their names as an outright slap in the face. Who knows what lurks in the hearts & minds of (those) men? We poor slobs on the other side of the world sure don't.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 11:15 AM
    excon
    Hello again:

    BDS = "Originally coined by columnist Charles Krauthammer as - the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush

    Symptoms of Bush Derangement Syndrome include:
    1. Believing that Bush caused Hurricane Katrina.
    2. Believing that Bush was behind 9-11.
    3. Calling Bush stupid despite the fact that he has degrees from Harvard and Yale and is a trained fighter pilot."

    For a long time now, you guys have been telling me how smart he is. I certainly know I don't have degrees from those places. So, I've watched very closely, and I've been waiting for the signs of his intelligence to make themselves apparent. Smart people can't really HIDE their intelligence. Wouldn't you think, that if he's really smart, there would have been an inkling of it showing by now?? All I'm looking for is an inkling, here - not the Gettysburg address. An inkling would be good.

    You say behind the scenes, he's really running the show. I see NO evidence of that, at all. In fact, I think he's BEING run. I KNOW Cheney is smart. I KNOW Rove is smart.

    excon
  • Nov 28, 2007, 11:18 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon
    Hello Steve:

    Because when he speaks to the world, he represents ME. I DON'T talk like that, and I DIDN’T go to Harvard.

    It ISN'T policy, Steve. It's speech. I hated Ronny RayGun's policies - but he made me proud when he spoke.

    Ex, I actually agree with you, but at this point in his administration it's beating a dead horse. At least he hasn't given an "I don’t feel no ways tarrrred" speech, he's just making good on his commitment when he said, "I hope you leave here and walk out and say, 'What did he say?'"

    Steve
  • Nov 28, 2007, 11:31 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RubyPitbull
    I had to go change my tightie whities just now because I PMSL. That BDS definition is hilarious!

    Hey Steve, how do you know it didn't cause a stir with those guys? We all know that Excon likes to poke the bear and he will do anything he can to rile you guys up. But, we really don't have any idea what those guys are thinking or feeling. They aren't stoopid (sp on purpose) enough to fly off the handle at a peace conference. Now, maybe if it was Osama, that might be a different story. He is rather vocal even when he isn't insulted straight to his face. Let's see how those "hard bargaining" discussions go, shall we? Hmmm? Maybe it has to do with the fact that Israel and the U.S. are such strong allies that they are being extremely careful not to display any signs of emotions or distress. I would keep everything close to the vest if I knew someone I was dealing with was in bed with my enemy. Maybe they do view his mangling of their names as an outright slap in the face. Who knows what lurks in the hearts & minds of (those) men? We poor slobs on the other side of the world sure don't.

    Ok, so I don't know, Ruby - but apparently the leaders "smiled as he regained his footing and plowed on through the text of the long-sought joint agreement." I know ex likes to "poke the bear" but we know he's really just a big ol' teddy bear :D
  • Nov 28, 2007, 11:43 AM
    RubyPitbull
    Steve, LOL. What else could they do? They are, after all, "diplomats". LOL. Maybe they smiled afterward thinking to themselves "AH, so it is true what excon has been saying about his President!" ;)

    excon, I think I have a serious bladder control issue. I had to go change my TWs again after that last post of yours.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 11:53 AM
    tomder55
    And it goes on and on...

    Bush is stupid Dan Quayle is stupid .Reagan was stupid. Ford is stupid. Nixon wasn't as smart as Kennedy .Ike wasn't as smart as Stevenson. Lincoln was an ape. Republicans have always been called stupid. I used to even buy that. Me ;I don't think you become a Governor let alone a President if you are stupid. They used to say Reagan was controlled by his staff. Now his personal papers are being published and we find out that he was a very insightful man. The funny thing is no one who has observed Bush from the inside claims he is stupid and not in control . That includes Bob Woodward who has written some pretty critical stuff about Bush ;but had unprecedented access to the White House as he researched his books.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 12:27 PM
    ETWolverine
    Excon,

    Most people can't even pronounce "Channukah" correctly. Do you really expect people to pronounce Middle Eastern names correctly? You now know my last name, since you visited here a few weeks ago. Think you would be able to pronounce it correctly if you had to READ it? Most people screw up my name badly the first time... and that's people who want to sell me something, and whom it makes sense would try to do it correctly.

    I am guessing that Olmert doesn't take it personally. Jewish names are always difficult to pronounce/spell. Ditto for Arabic names, but I don't know whether Abbas will take it personally or not. Frankly, the guy has way to many other things on his mind that to worry about how Bush pronounces his name. The very fact that the President is recognizing his government at all, after the way Bush treated Arafat, and after the way Hammas has acted over the past year, is a releif to Abbas. He could proably give a $h!t about how Bush says his name.

    The rest of the players at the table? Who gives a cr@p? Russia is there as an anti-Israel cheerleader. Syria is irrelevant to talks between Israel and the PA. Ditto for the EU countries and the Arab federation. Saudi Arabia is important to the USA, but they also have no part in these talks. And I doubt that Bush would get the Saudi's names wrong anyway. So who really gives a damn what anyone else thinks about how Bush pronounces names?

    Perhaps you are right, though. Perhaps this is a result of Bush having more important things to deal with than proper pronunciation of the names. Like maybe policy issues, the talks themselves, running a war, etc. Perhaps he has a different set of priorities than you do.

    Elliot
  • Nov 28, 2007, 12:36 PM
    RubyPitbull
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55
    and it goes on and on .........
    Bush is stupid Dan Quayle is stupid .Reagan was stupid. Ford is stupid. Nixon wasn't as smart as Kennedy .Ike wasn't as smart as Stevenson. Lincoln was an ape. Republicans have always been called stupid.

    Holy smokes Tom. No one said anything remotely like that here! :confused:
    (But, now methinks you just gave excon some more stuff to gripe about).

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55
    The funny thing is no one who has observed Bush from the inside claims he is stupid and not in control . That includes Bob Woodward who has written some pretty critical stuff about Bush ;but had unprecedented access to the White House as he researched his books.

    The Office of the President is extremely closed off to outsiders. Who on the inside is going to say that he isn't in control? How do we really know that what excon is stating isn't true? So far, I haven't read anything from a completely independent source that can concretely contradict that Cheney isn't really running things. Please understand that I am not saying I think he is. All I am saying is we just don't know the truth as to what is going on during anyone's stint in the White House. Just like with Reagan, we probably won't know how much Bush was really in control until well after his term is over. Possibly after his death. Who knows.

    Regarding Woodward, where did you get that he has "unprecedented access to the White House". His book? That man contradicts himself all the time. He is an egomaniac who is a legend in his own mind.

    Here is an excerpt from The Bob Woodward version | openDemocracy
    "In Bush at War, he was leaked National Security Council documents with official approval and given unprecedented access to top officials, including hours of valuable face time with the president himself. Woodward, in fact, had never had much access to a president before. He confused the interviews with access to truth and perhaps intimacy."


    Boy, I was having so much fun here earlier. Tom, don't let excon get you angry. Dance, poke, and jab back at him. ;)
  • Nov 28, 2007, 01:25 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RubyPitbull
    Steve, LOL. What else could they do? They are, after all, "diplomats". LOL. Maybe they smiled afterward thinking to themselves "AH, so it is true what Excon has been saying about his President!" ;)

    They could have responded like King Juan Carlos of Spain did to Hugo when he said, Por qué no te callas? :D

    Quote:

    Excon, I think I have a serious bladder control issue. I had to go change my TWs again after that last post of yours.
    TMI Ruby, TMI ;)
  • Nov 28, 2007, 01:32 PM
    RubyPitbull
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by speechlesstx
    They could have responded like King Juan Carlos of Spain did to Hugo when he said, Por qué no te callas? :D

    LOL! Too true! Too true! I forgot about that! Wouldn't it be refreshing if they all just spoke out about how they were feeling? :eek: Then we wouldn't have anything to talk and debate about!
  • Nov 28, 2007, 01:43 PM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RubyPitbull
    LOL! Too true! Too true! I forgot about that! Wouldn't it be refreshing if they all just spoke out about how they were feeling? :eek: Then we wouldn't have anything to talk and debate about!

    Bush and Cheney have done that before, Cheney told Leahy to go "f*** himself," and Bush called a NY Times reporter a "major league a**hole." That caused plenty of debate :D
  • Nov 28, 2007, 01:49 PM
    RubyPitbull
    I was specifically referring to the topic at hand..
    "smarta$$". Hehe.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 04:19 PM
    Choux
    excon, What an embarrassment! The worst part was when Bush was fumbling to shake both hands for the photo op and Abbas whispered a suggestion which was caught on mike that they move from behind the podium so they could be seen!

    Bush is either on psychotropic drugs or alcohol... he can barely function public.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 04:32 PM
    RubyPitbull
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Choux
    excon, What an embarrassment!! The worst part was when Bush was fumbling to shake both hands for the photo op and Abbas whispered a suggestion which was caught on mike that they move from behind the podium so they could be seen!!

    Bush is either on psychotropic drugs or alcohol.....he can barely function public.

    WHAT?? Cmon Choux. Hey, I am a neutral party because I hate all politicians. But c'mon. That is just the kind of speculation I have been trying to discourage here. As to the topic at hand, the Republicans will claim that no one was insulted. The Democrats will claim that they were. How do we know what is going through someone else's mind? All speculation. But to state what you have here about Bush is more than simple speculation. It really is malicious and hitting below the belt. The man was walking and talking. He flubbed some words. He might be a bit uncoordinated but how do you translate that into barely functioning in public? Or state that he is on drugs or alcohol. C'mon, create a good and sound argument as ET has. I am waiting for someone to persuade me through good debate. So far, ET is making the most sense here.

    P.S. Excon, do you really believe that?
  • Nov 28, 2007, 04:44 PM
    Choux
    Ruby,

    This is not the first example of Bush's obvious problems. This has been going on for a long time. :)

    Have a lovely evening!
  • Nov 28, 2007, 04:51 PM
    RubyPitbull
    Choux honey, too bad you don't want to engage in a logical debate based on facts rather than opinions.

    You have a lovely evening too Choux.
  • Nov 28, 2007, 04:58 PM
    Choux
    *EVERYTHING* in POLITICS is opinion. That's one reason why it is such an incendiary topic.

    Anyway, I didn't give you attitude; I don't appreciate getting attidude. Let's just be friends. :)

    Have a great evening!
  • Nov 28, 2007, 05:08 PM
    RubyPitbull
    Ummm, :confused: that wasn't attitude. It was a statement and I was wishing you a good evening because you wished me one. :confused: I just read what I wrote -- is it my use of "honey" that upsets you? Excon and others will tell you I use that a lot. It really is meant as a term of affection. I won't use it with you anymore if it offends you.

    Regarding opinion, yes, that is true. But stating what you did about Bush's condition should be backed by fact. Without it, it falls under the category of gossip. Personally, I think he is a wanker. But, it doesn't have anything to do with his being a Republican. I think all politicians are wankers. I just like a good logical debate and I was in the mood for one today. Most of these threads never can get too far with that, which is why I usually don't participate.
  • Nov 29, 2007, 10:38 AM
    ETWolverine
    Here's a big shocker... I'm about to disagree with Chou... again.

    Not everything in politics is opinion. Political opinions are about opinion, but certain events within the political field are FACTS. And while I believe that anyone has a right to their opinion, I think that they are wrong when their opinions run counter the actual facts.

    For instance, Chou's statements about Bush being on either drugs or alcohol are OPINIONS. That Bush mispronounced Abbas' name is a fact. But one does not necessarily flow from the other and one is not necessarily the cause of another.

    Another example: It is a fact that drug use and alchoholism can cause feelings of paranoia. Hypothetically, if I were to say that Chou's anti-Bush paranoia is caused by drug use or alchoholism, that would not be a factual statement, but rather my opinion with no basis in fact. One of these is opinion, the other is fact. And while I may feel that my opinion is correct, there is no proof of it and should not be stated as such.

    My point is that there politics is NOT entirely opinion-based and often has facts to back it up. But some would like to ignore facts in favor of opinions. They put forward ideas that the President of the United States is abusing either drugs or alcohol, and state it as if it were fact rather than opinion generated because of a personal dislike for President Bush.

    The difference between fact and opinion is the same as the difference between truth and lie. Ignoring facts is a form of lie... lying by ommission. It is morally and intellectually dishonest to state that there is no difference between fact and opinion. And it is lazy thinking as well.

    Elliot
  • Nov 29, 2007, 10:53 AM
    oneguyinohio
    Didn't that Whusane guy want to agree to more talks as well while he did as he pleased? Perhaps the Busch guy has trouble with names as a result of his cocaine use... I keep wondering if God intended to send us another burning bush, after all this guy is a flaming idiot! But out of respect for the political system that made him president, I think it is imperative to get names correct!
  • Nov 29, 2007, 11:06 AM
    RubyPitbull
    ET, I have to spread it but I just wanted to state that I love the way you always lay out your case. I am a person who responds positively to, and is compelled by, rational and logical thinking and explanations. You are much more eloquent and capable than I am. Are you a lawyer? You don't have to answer that. I just wanted to state that if you are not, you missed your calling! ;)
  • Nov 29, 2007, 11:55 AM
    speechlesstx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by oneguyinohio
    Didn't that Whusane guy want to agree to more talks as well while he did as he pleased? Perhaps the Busch guy has trouble with names as a result of his cocaine use...I keep wondering if God intended to send us another burning bush, after all this guy is a flaming idiot! But out of respect for the political system that made him president, I think it is imperative to get names correct!

    It seems to me that some are confusing eloquence with intelligence. It's fairly obvious there are a number of anti-Bush Hollywood actors that are quite eloquent, but are otherwise blithering idiots. I can even think of a few liberal politicians that probably fit the bill - John Kerry, Jimmy Carter, Richard Durbin, Harry Reid, The Goracle...
  • Nov 29, 2007, 12:11 PM
    Tuscany
    The pure fact that Bush is in a position that puts him one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) people in the world makes me think that he should be able to conduct himself in public as an educated person.

    When you cannot say the name of a visitor in your home properly, then you had better ask them how to say it before you introduce them to others. Obviously, he did not do that.

    This is not the first time that he has represented the country in a way that shows a lack of education or commonsense. Is he the only politician that has ever done that. No. But, he is the one representing us now. And should be held accountable.
  • Nov 29, 2007, 12:29 PM
    Dark_crow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tuscany
    The pure fact that Bush is in a position that puts him one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) people in the world makes me think that he should be able to conduct himself in public as an educated person.

    When you cannot say the name of a visitor in your home properly, then you had better ask them how to say it before you introduce them to others. Obviously, he did not do that.

    This is not the first time that he has represented the country in a way that shows a lack of education or commonsense. Is he the only politician that has ever done that. No. But, he is the one representing us now. And should be held accountable.

    Just what do you think should be done to him, in making him accountable?
  • Nov 29, 2007, 12:34 PM
    Tuscany
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dark_crow
    Just what do you think should be done to him, in making him accountable?

    Being held accountable does not mean immediate consequences especially for an adult. In MY OPINION he has represented the country poorly on a number of occastions, therefore IF he was eligible for the presidency again I would not vote for him. You might have a different opinion which is fine with me. That is what makes this country great. We can agree to disagree.
  • Nov 29, 2007, 12:36 PM
    tomder55
    And the well educated and well spoken Bill Clinton was and is admired worldwide for getting BJs in the Oval Office.
  • Nov 29, 2007, 12:38 PM
    Tuscany
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tomder55
    and the well educated and well spoken Bill Clinton was and is admired worldwide for getting BJs in the Oval Office.

    Wow- see now this is where I have to speak up. Again in MY OPINION regardless of political party the individual needs to be held accountable for their actions. So was Bill wrong, absolutely. Was he admired, probably not.

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