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http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2185780,00.html

Five killed in Wisconsin shooting

Staff and agencies
Sunday October 7, 2007
Guardian Unlimited


At least five people were killed today in a shooting in the US state of Wisconsin, county officials said.

The shooting happened in the north-east Wisconsin city of Crandon, which is located 392 km (225 miles) north of Milwaukee, the state's largest city.

A witness told local radio station WTMJ that the shooting happened just before 3am local time (9am BST).

"It's a pretty tragic situation here," said Forest County supervisor Tom Vollmar. "There are five or six people dead."

The neighbourhood where the shooting happened has been blocked off, Mr Vollmar said.

The town has a population of about 2,000.
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Are there any members from Wisconsin?

I am not in Wisconsin, but an adjoining state. That makes at least two major shootings in Wisconsin in the last six months or so.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3699921

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CRANDON, Wis. Oct 7, 2007 (AP)

A local law enforcement employee went on a shooting rampage early Sunday in remote northern Wisconsin, killing at least five people, authorities said.

Crandon Police Chief John Dennee, speaking outside the police department about two blocks from the shooting site, would not say whether the suspect was dead. But he said: "We're not looking for anybody anymore."

A dispatcher for the State Patrol who declined to give his full name as a matter of department practice said several of the patrol's officers went to Forest County to help investigators because the suspect is an employee of the Forest County Sheriff's Department and a part-time officer for the Crandon Police Department.

"It's a pretty tragic situation here," said Forest County Supervisor Tom Vollmar, who lives just outside Crandon, a city of about 2,000 people. "There are five or six people dead."

The State Patrol and the Crandon Fire Department detoured a steady stream of traffic from two blocks of U.S. Highway 8 in the downtown area. Some residents stood in nearby front yards.

The northeast Wisconsin town is about 225 miles north of Milwaukee. The area is known for logging, and fishing, hunting and snowmobiling.

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I did hear about the previous shooting,but do not remember the details of that one.

That's why everyone should carry guns. So they can shoot the shooter before he gets them..
Don't you agree??

No either do I. But many people do. They think carrying a gun should be compulsory.

Crazy. Gun violence in the US is out of control and they do nothing about it. Something to do with the Constitution and an amendment..

I don't believe in carrying guns. I do like to use guns for only sport, though. But, not the kinds of guns that shoot actual bullets. I am not a hunter of living things. But, I do like to shoot targets that aren't living.

I would have to agree that gun violence is out of control in the U.S. and that little is done about it.

If you have time to call the police because there is someone with a gun attacking you, that would be your last call, you would be dead before the police even get there.

I believe that one must protect themselves, armed themselves against stupid people who uses a gun to promote violence.

People kill people, a gun is the tool they use.

Yes I own guns for sport , hunting and protection, everyone should own a gun to protect themselves, because the police cannot.

I wish this I could give you a greenie Mr. Yet. I have to agree wholeheartedly with every word you said.

Oh lord.

Some idiot goes crazy and kills people, and people are blaming the GUN?

Get real!

It's really a tragedy--I've been to Crandon several times. But it was a POLICE OFFICER that did it! So... taking guns away from the general public would have done NOTHING to prevent this tragedy.

People have been killing people from the beginning of time. They used clubs, knives, whatever they can get their hands on.

It wasn't the "gun" that killed these people, it was the lunatic holding the gun. The firearm cannot fire on it's own. It needs someone to pull the trigger. That boy would have committed this crime whether he had a gun. He would have found some other way.

I live in the city with the highest crime rate in America. You think I'm NOT going to protect myself and my family. You got to be kidding.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Oh lord.

Some idiot goes crazy and kills people, and people are blaming the GUN?

Get real!

It's really a tragedy--I've been to Crandon several times. But it was a POLICE OFFICER that did it! So...taking guns away from the general public would have done NOTHING to prevent this tragedy.

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Synn,
I read that in the news too.
Is it true?

There have been A LOT of videos surfacing lately about police brutality. Something is wrong with the system there in the US.

About gun control: I feel a lot safer here in Canada.

Here is another article from the shooting. An off duty deputy sheriff. May not ever know why he shot the people, as he was shot, possibly by a sniper, possibly by law enforcement.
Midcontinent Communications: MidcoNet - News

I will agree with others who said it is not the gun but the one holding the gun. Taking away my gun would not keep peace. More gun laws would not work either. There are always ways to obtain firearms.

I have heard (not sure if it is true) in Australia you can buy the different parts to assemble and make a gun,but not purchase a whole gun!?

Thanks for the link Shy.

Yes... the lunatic holding the gun should be responsible for this awful awful tragedy
I own guns, we hardley use them for sport, and we don't hunt but I tell you what, someone tried to get my babies or me, they are going to go down trying. Do I need to post my pic J? These people, I wonder if their friends and family had honest feelings about them before these things happened. Let us take in concideration, there are people we run across and we just know they are capable of doing things, but think it is just a matter of time. Should we work harder to bring these thoughts and feelings to the surface so we can stop some of these messes before they come? Does that make sense?

It's a known fact that half of the poulation is insane. Ask any professional working in Psychiatry. The reason I took an early retirement from federal law enforcement was due to all the young, gun ho nuts coming on board. In just a few months, after desert storm, one blew his brains out, another shot himself in the gut, another nearly beat a hooker to death. It was something different every month. You got to be out there to see it first hand though. Just watching the news doesn't show the full scope of the real problems.
The federal government have indoctrinated the local law enforcement folks into this homeland security hype in which they are trained (brainwashed) that all U.S. citizens, have the potential to be terrorist. Hence the rise in police brutality. The kid that went off in Wisconsin was mentally unstable from the get go. That happens a lot in small towns where the police recruiting standards are not as stringent as in larger cities. Everyone there knew him since grade school and thought he was an OK guy. They were not qualified to make that call.
I now live in a small town in Idaho and I see the same thing happening here. Every so often a cop goes off and does something really crazy. He wasn't screened properly and got through the cracks in their small town system.

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Originally Posted by magprob

Everyone there knew him since grade school and thought he was an OK guy. They were not qualified to make that call.

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I guess my question would be this... do you think that someone around him knew that there may have been a problem and should they have stepped in before there was this mess?

WE think just because someone has a badge that they are normal, sometimes that is the farthest thing from the truth.. I am sure that it happens more often than we want to realize. Maybe not with shootings, but with domestic abuse, substance abuse and even rapists or pedophiles. Being a cop still means you are human. Even when they take precautions, people are capable of putting on a good show, until they literally lose their mind and do something like this...
Isn't it usually the most random person, who everyone thought was kind of a loner but OK, that turns around and unleashes their wrath on some poor innoncent people? It seems that way doesn't it?
Magprob, good thing you got out of that! I am sure that many do seem brainwashed and of course dealing with murderers, thieves and crazy people can get to you after awhile!

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Originally Posted by shatteredsoul

Magprob, good thing you got out of that! I am sure that many do seem brainwashed and of course dealing with murderers, thieves and crazy people can get to you after awhile!!

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Yea, now I'm crazy.

There are those lunatics out there and perhaps law enforcement draws them because of the authority. There was a man who worked in the city where I moved from, who was a prison guard, became a probation officer, and thought he was God on earth. He manufactured evidence, boarded up his daughter's bedroom windows so she could not break curfew, planted drugs on the very people he was supervising their parole, beat his first wife when she was 8 months pregnant, pulled a gun on his second wife when she decided she had had enough and shot her. The man was as unbalanced as a teeter totter. But he was allowed to resign and relocate. He moved to Idaho where he was able to get back into the prison system and works as a guard. Scary, isn't it?

Don't go to prison in Idaho! Some of the nuttiest people I have ever known are prison guards. Was it Churchill that said, "If you want to meet the scum of the earth, be at any prison during shift change."

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Originally Posted by shygrneyzs

There are those lunatics out there and perhaps law enforcement draws them because of the authority. There was a man who worked in the city where I moved from, who was a prison guard, became a probation officer, and thought he was God on earth. He manufactured evidence, boarded up his daughter's bedroom windows so she could not break curfew, planted drugs on the very people he was supervising their parole, beat his first wife when she was 8 months pregnant, pulled a gun on his second wife when she decided she had had enough and shot her. The man was as unbalanced as a teeter totter. But he was allowed to resign and relocate. He moved to Idaho where he was able to get back into the prison system and works as a guard. Scary, isn't it?

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That story gives me the shivers... scary is the right word.

I thought my comment on the gun would get you all going. It always does. I'm certainly not blaming the gun. Responsibility rests with the killer. No doubt.

BUt I still can't agree with those of you who think more guns are the answer. It's a sad indictment on the place you live that most of you feel you need a gun to live safely. Ive never laid my hands on one and I can still go to sleep at night with the doors unlocked. Im sorry the rest of you guys don't have that feeling of safety that I enjoy.

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Originally Posted by mr.yet

Yes I own guns for sport , hunting and protection, everyone should own a gun to protect themselves, because the police cannot.

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How sad you guys have no trust in your police. I feel sorry for you. And I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

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I thought my comment on the gun would get you all going. It always does. I'm certainly not blaming the gun. Responsibility rests with the killer. No doubt.

BUt I still can't agree with those of you who think more guns are the answer. It's a sad indictment on the place you live that most of you feel you need a gun to live safely. Ive never laid my hands on one and I can still go to sleep at night with the doors unlocked. Im sorry the rest of you guys don't have that feeling of safety that I enjoy.

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You echo my sentiments exactly Skell. Well said.

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Originally Posted by J_9

I wish this I could give you a greenie Mr. Yet. I have to agree wholeheartedly with every word you said.

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Yes, more guns are the answer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Oh lord.

Some idiot goes crazy and kills people, and people are blaming the GUN?

Get real!

It's really a tragedy--I've been to Crandon several times. But it was a POLICE OFFICER that did it! So...taking guns away from the general public would have done NOTHING to prevent this tragedy.

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Sorry Synn. I posted my comment before it was reported as being a police officer. It still won't convince me though that giving everyone a gun will solve things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skell

How sad you guys have no trust in your police. I feel sorry for you. And i dont mean that in a derogatory way.

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Actually they should not feel trust in their police, the abuses of power are rampant. Goes back to that state of fear being pushed onto the populace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J_9

People have been killing people from the beginning of time. They used clubs, knives, whatever they can get their hands on.

It wasn't the "gun" that killed these people, it was the lunatic holding the gun. The firearm cannot fire on it's own. It needs someone to pull the trigger. That boy would have committed this crime whether or not he had a gun. He would have found some other way.

I live in the city with the highest crime rate in America. You think I'm NOT going to protect myself and my family. You gotta be kidding.

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I beg to differ. Do you actually think this boy would have bashed or knifed all those people to death??

As I said its sad that in the States there is no trust in the police that you feel the need to arm yourself to protect you. Im sorry for that!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Actually they should not feel trust in their police, the abuses of power are rampant. Goes back to that state of fear being pushed onto the populace.

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Fair point. Im not up to date with all police abuse stories over there but surely it is a minority only? We have abuse issues here at times and I'm sure you guys in Canada do too but it doesn't waive my trust in the majority of police. Ours are primarily upstanding citizens who do a fine job and I'm glad I can put my trust in them and not a gun!

Actually--I know good cops and bad cops, and have heard more than a few stories about the bad from people I know personally.

My sister, for example, was pulled over one night. She had a teething infant in the back seat, and was tired, but had not broken any laws.

The officer proceeded to ask her to step from the car and frisked her, making lewd gestures and basically groping her everywhere, then let her go with a "warning" that next time she wouldn't get off so easily.

No cameras, of course.

She reported it the next day, and was told that if she pursued it, she would be essentially be taken to court and made to look like a liar because no one would doubt the word of the "fine, upstanding officers on our force".

The reason I have a gun is because some day our government will go too far. That's when the revolution will happen, and at least I'll be armed with SOMETHING against the troops they send against me. THAT is why there IS a second amendment.

So no--more guns won't make it any better. But neither will FEWER guns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skell

I thought my comment on the gun would get you all going. It always does. I'm certainly not blaming the gun. Responsibility rests with the killer. No doubt.

BUt i still can't agree with those of you who think more guns are the answer. Its a sad indictment on the place you live that most of you feel you need a gun to live safely. Ive never laid my hands on one and i can still go to sleep at night with the doors unlocked. Im sorry the rest of you guys don't have that feeling of safety that i enjoy.

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I have to ask that if someone came into your home and proceeded to kill and hurt your family or yourself, would you still want to leave your doors unlocked and not have had a gun to get him/her before they got to you? More guns are not the answer, not letting the wrong people get to them is... none of us will ever be happy... I guess we are getting off subject here...
Edit:::: Hey Skell, I used to keep our doors unlocked till the next door lady got a big scare with her life and a robbery. I had to add that cause I think it is sad that people don't feel safe too sweet... I really do!

Start,
It is not getting off topic...

This is in member discussion, so I guess it could go anywhere in connection to the shooting.

As I stated before... I live very close to the city that has the highest crime rate in the country. I choose to protect myself.

Before you people who are totally against guns tell me to move... Moving is NOT an option at the moment. Yes, I would love to move to get away from it, but currently I have no choice.

If crazy ole Bubba or Tookie comes to my house in the middle of the night with a gun and my children are in harms way... You better bet your A$$ I am going to protect myself. The police where I live, basically Mayberry, will make it here after my children and I have been shot to death. I refuse to let Barney Fife and his deputies in my small community even think they can protect me, because I know they can't.

Why do I know they can't? Because my husband is a master gunsmith in our community, not many left in the country, they (the local police (?) come to him to have their firearms repaired and/or maintained. They don't have firing pins, they have a 8mm cal gun with 357 cal bullets. You can bet your Arse I'm going to protect myself.

They don't know the difference between a semi-auto and an automatic.

I don't choose to live here, but I don't have the choice to get out right now. So, do I protect myself or rely on Barney who doesn't know a revolver from the hole in his Arse?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skell

I thought my comment on the gun would get you all going. It always does. I'm certainly not blaming the gun. Responsibility rests with the killer. No doubt.

BUt i still can't agree with those of you who think more guns are the answer. Its a sad indictment on the place you live that most of you feel you need a gun to live safely. Ive never laid my hands on one and i can still go to sleep at night with the doors unlocked. Im sorry the rest of you guys don't have that feeling of safety that i enjoy.

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I'd really like to take issue with you on that but at the moment I'm beating my head against a Eucyliptis tree and it feels really nice, thank you very much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J_9

As I stated before....I live very close to the city that has the highest crime rate in the country. I choose to protect myself.

Before you people who are totally against guns tell me to move.....Moving is NOT an option at the moment. Yes, I would love to move to get away from it, but currently I have no choice.

If crazy ole Bubba or Tookie comes to my house in the middle of the night with a gun and my children are in harms way....You better bet your A$$ I am going to protect myself. The police where I live, basically Mayberry, will make it here after my children and I have been shot to death. I refuse to let Barney Fife and his deputies in my small community even think they can protect me, because I know they can't.

Why do I know they can't? Because my husband is a master gunsmith in our community, not many left in the country, they (the local police (?) come to him to have their firearms repaired and/or maintained. They don't have firing pins, they have a 8mm cal gun with 357 cal bullets. You can bet your Arse I'm gonna protect myself.

They don't know the difference between a semi-auto and an automatic.

I don't choose to live here, but I don't have the choice to get out right now. So, do I protect myself or rely on Barney who doesn't know a revolver from the hole in his Arse?

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Tookie? Tookie? I'd like a little Tookie!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synnen

The reason I have a gun is because some day our government will go too far. That's when the revolution will happen, and at least I'll be armed with SOMETHING against the troops they send against me. THAT is why there IS a second amendment.

So no--more guns won't make it any better. But neither will FEWER guns.

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Many people will say that has happened already.. :)

I respect that decision but do you honestly think a gun is going to protect you against the might of the US military? Is that the reason you really have a gun. So one day when neded you can use it against your Government?

That view is shared by many isn't it? I have to admit that it is quite difficult for me to grasp but obviously is a popularly held belief in the US. It just shows that even those in the Western world have quite different cultural beliefs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by startover22

I have to ask that if someone came into your home and proceeded to kill and hurt your family or yourself, would you still want to leave your doors unlocked and not have had a gun to get him/her before they got to you? More guns are not the answer, not letting the wrong people get to them is....none of us will ever be happy......I guess we are getting off subject here....
Edit:::: Hey Skell, I used to keep our doors unlocked till the next door lady got a big scare with her life and a robbery. I had to add that cause i think it is sad that people don't feel safe too sweet....I really do!

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If someone came in and killed my family and me it would be too late to lock the doors. Just as it would be too late to go to my closet, unlock the safe, unlock the other safe where the ammunition is, load the gun and then work out how to shoot someone.

To me it is simply a matter that having a gun would not make me feel safer. In fact if I had a family it would make me feel more uneasy then anything.

And I will admit that the doors do get locked at night time now, but locking the doors still won't stop someone coming in and hurting me and my family. Just like owning a gun won't stop it either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J_9

As I stated before....I live very close to the city that has the highest crime rate in the country. I choose to protect myself.

Before you people who are totally against guns tell me to move.....Moving is NOT an option at the moment. Yes, I would love to move to get away from it, but currently I have no choice.

If crazy ole Bubba or Tookie comes to my house in the middle of the night with a gun and my children are in harms way....You better bet your A$$ I am going to protect myself. The police where I live, basically Mayberry, will make it here after my children and I have been shot to death. I refuse to let Barney Fife and his deputies in my small community even think they can protect me, because I know they can't.

Why do I know they can't? Because my husband is a master gunsmith in our community, not many left in the country, they (the local police (?) come to him to have their firearms repaired and/or maintained. They don't have firing pins, they have a 8mm cal gun with 357 cal bullets. You can bet your Arse I'm gonna protect myself.

They don't know the difference between a semi-auto and an automatic.

I don't choose to live here, but I don't have the choice to get out right now. So, do I protect myself or rely on Barney who doesn't know a revolver from the hole in his Arse?

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That's fair enough.

Can I ask where you keep your gun J?

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Originally Posted by magprob

I'd really like to take issue with you on that but at the moment I'm beating my head against a Eucyliptis tree and it feels really nice, thank you very much.

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Just be careful that Koala doesn't fall out of it and land on your head. You know those things are the size of polar bears. They're Australia's biggest killer behind knife wielding maniacs named Mick! :)

And Ned.