Ask Me Help Desk - The old double standard.

To Waltero -

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So you understand there is a place called Hell?

Only in your fevered imagination.

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Why would an all loving God allow somebody to suffer for one day

For the same reason a parent would.

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(eternity is irrelevant)?

Which would you prefer? One day's suffering or an eternity of torture? Now answer your own question.

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Should a Christian understand that God would allow his word (the word that we put our faith in) to be corrupted and looked on with doubt?

Should a Christian understand that God would allow his word to Cain to be corrupted and slay Abel? Should a Christian understand God would allow his word to humanity to be corrupted and slain in a flood? Now answer your own question.

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Is one denomination more Christian than another?

See Religious Discussions for this question. It's answered there.

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Is one Bible interpolation more God than another?

Rephrase this question so it makes sense.

God has provided us with the proper translation. The Bible and Jesus are one and the same.
A place has been prepared for fallen Angels.
A day is as 1000 years...Suffering for a day?
Different denominations are meat to some and milk to others.
If you don't understand Hell, speaking in tongues, healing, baptism, proof, evidence etc.

Know that God has provided.

Live for today and tomorrow will never Die.

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Originally Posted by waltero

God has provided us with the proper translation. The Bible and Jesus are one and the same.
A place has been prepared for fallen Angels.
A day is as 1000 years.
Different denominations are meat to some and milk to others.
If you don't understand Hell, speaking in tongues, healing, baptism, proof, evidence etc.

Know that God has provided.

I'm sorry, Walter. I shouldn't have bothered you. Best of luck to you.

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Originally Posted by waltero

God has provided us with the proper translation.

And that translation is...?

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The Bible and Jesus are one and the same.

I don't know what that means.

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So you understand there is a place called Hell?

Only in your fevered imagination.

There and in a couple of dozen statements by Jesus to that effect, and then several others by the Apostles. Stange how widespread that "fevered imagination" is, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

There and in a couple of dozen statements by Jesus to that effect, and then several others by the Apostles. Stange how widespread that "fevered imagination" is, isn't it?

That fevered imagination belongs equally to you.

Why have you not answered the question posed in post #277? You can't evade it forever, as much as you would like to. Or will you just give us more evasions?

To help you, here it is again --

Which one is true - Matthew's passage or God's love? Both can't be true. Would an unconditionally loving God cast his creatures into his personal torture chamber for all eternity simply because they never heard of or believed in Jesus? Of course not!

Bring on the evasions.

First you need to make a Biblical case for God's love and acceptance being unconditional. If you can't do that, then your question becomes senseless. And please don't go down your usual path of monstrous beliefs, supposed evasiveness, and so forth. Simply make a case from the Bible for God's love and acceptance being unconditional.

Hint. Don't start in John 3:16. It works against your idea.
Also bear in mind that "Matthew's passage" shows the very words of Christ.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

First you need to make a Biblical case for God's love and acceptance being unconditional. If you can't do that, then your question becomes senseless. And please don't go down your usual path of monstrous beliefs, supposed evasiveness, and so forth. Simply make a case from the Bible for God's love and acceptance being unconditional.

I sure as hell don't need you to tell me how to make "my case". Your need to have everything conform to your idea of the Bible is utter nonsense. I also do not need you to tell me to not refer to "monstrous beliefs", your evasiveness, and so forth. I see those comments are getting to you.

Best for all concerned is simply you answering the question posed in post #277. It's becoming more and more obvious you can't - or won't. Probably a little of each. Yet the question remains, as simple as can be. Stop evading.

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Hint. Don't start in John 3:16.

I have no intention to.

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Also bear in mind that "Matthew's passage" shows the very words of Christ.

Hint. Are you sure about that?

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I sure as hell don't need you to tell me how to make "my case".

It's not that you don't need to; it's that you can't, which is as I thought it was. The Bible does not present God's love and acceptance as unconditional, or at least not in the sense you want it to be. Anyone who wants to say it does should be able to present support for that. But at least your question has now been shown to be senseless. The Matthew 25 passage does not contradict the love of God.

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Hint. Are you sure about that?

Yes.

You sure get mad easily. You need to learn to chill a little.

What's senseless is seeing God thru the human eyes of ancient man!

The problem with the radical progressive left is that they are so quick to cancel culture and history that they fail to appreciate that a lot of wisdom came from the ancients .

Agreed. I don't think we should ignore the story of God raising a person from the dead.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It's not that you don't need to; it's that you can't,

Of course I can, and I've done it. Not my fault you can't comprehend.

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The Bible does not present God's love and acceptance as unconditional, or at least not in the sense you want it to be. Anyone who wants to say it does should be able to present support for that.

Cite the conditions for God's love.

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But at least your question has now been shown to be senseless.

Why? Because you say so? LOL. You will do and say ANYTHING to avoid answering the question.

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The Matthew 25 passage does not contradict the love of God.

You didn't take my hint.

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You sure get mad easily. You need to learn to chill a little.

You need to stop evading the question. You're mistaking mad for comic relief. Your evasions are getting funnier and funnier. They really are!

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You Of course I can, and I've done it. Not my fault you can't comprehend.

You have not. Period. End of story. You were asked to, and your reply was to curse and say, "I sure as hell don't need you to tell me how to make "my case"." So your question is simply foolish. The statements of Jesus don't need to fit into your erroneous, unbiblical understanding of God's love. And please don't try to say, "Oh, I posted that months ago." You have not. If you can defend your position, then have at it. We are all waiting. I posted more than a dozen scriptures to support mine. You have posted...zilch.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You have not. Period. End of story.

Sorry, but my question remains unanswered by you. Period. End of story.

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You were asked to, and your reply was to curse

Curse? Hell is a curse? Did you really say that? Welcome to 2021 AD.

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and say, "I sure as hell don't need you to tell me how to make "my case"." So your question is simply foolish.

You're making me laugh again. I tell you I don't need you to tell me how to make my case, therefore my question is "simply foolish"?? That's dopier than your usual dopiness.

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The statements of Jesus don't need to fit into your erroneous, unbiblical understanding of God's love.

Sure they can, if I decide to do so. I asked you to cite God's conditions for love - you couldn't do it. "Unbiblical" just shows how dependant you are on a book. Will you ever learn to think for yourself? What would you do without Bible Bingo? (I love that phrase).

Of course your question is answered. Your incorrect understanding of unconditional love, completely unsupported by the Bible, needs to be adjusted to fit the clear statement of Jesus. It's really very simple, and it is now obvious to everyone here that your ideas are just that...your ideas.

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"Unbiblical" just shows how dependant you are on a book. Will you ever learn to think for yourself? What would you do without Bible Bingo? (I love that phrase).

Always the plea of those who do not know the Bible. "Oh! What! You dare to quote the Bible to challenge my preconceived notions! Don't you know that the unsupported views of Athos just have to be correct?"

Uhm...no.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Of course your question is answered.

Then repeat the answer right here. I'll wait.

You won't have to wait long. "Your incorrect understanding of unconditional love, completely unsupported by the Bible, needs to be adjusted to fit the clear statement of Jesus. It's really very simple, and it is now obvious to everyone here that your ideas are just that...your ideas."

But I'll make your life simple for you. You are asking how I think Mt. 25 fits into your idea of God's unconditional love, and it has just been answered. But you haven't been able at all to describe your version of unconditional love from the Bible. OK, let's go even more basic. Simply tell what unconditional love means to you. It's a term in your question, so it would be logical for you to simply describe it. Now this is REAALLLLYYY easy, so don't dodge it.

I'll wait...probably forever.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The Bible does not present God's love and acceptance as unconditional

We have to be a certain way before God is willing to love us?

Not according to the Bible. So WG, what do you think unconditional love and acceptance mean? Can you make any reference to the Bible to support your view? Athos can't, but perhaps you can.

Here's the question you continue to evade.

Which one is true - Matthew's passage or God's love? Both can't be true. Would an unconditionally loving God cast his creatures into his personal torture chamber for all eternity simply because they never heard of or believed in Jesus? Of course not!

Here's your non-answer.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

"Your incorrect understanding of unconditional love, completely unsupported by the Bible, needs to be adjusted to fit the clear statement of Jesus. It's really very simple, and it is now obvious to everyone here that your ideas are just that...your ideas."

NOTE: There's no answer there in your "answer". Only in your foggy mind is that an answer. You skated around, talking Bible and Jesus and then saying "It is now obvious to everyone here that your ideas are just that...your ideas". OBVIOUS? TO EVERYONE HERE? Where's the answer? My ideas are just that - my ideas. Wow, how long did it take you to come up with that one about my ideas being my ideas? BRILLIANT!

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But I'll make your life simple for you.

I'll make it even simpler for you. Drop unconditional love. It's not critical to the question. Plain old "love" will do. Is that easier for you?

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You are asking how I think Mt. 25 fits into your idea of God's unconditional love, and it has just been answered.

I have just explained to you that it has NOT been answered. Then I made it easier for you since you are so hung up on the word "unconditional". Another semantic roadblock you love so well to delay and deflect.

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But you haven't been able at all to describe your version of unconditional love from the Bible.

I don't need a Bible to describe love - unconditional or otherwise. It's a pretty common term. If you're confused about it, google it. Oh, I forgot, you don't google.

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OK, let's go even more basic. Simply tell what unconditional love means to you. It's a term in your question, so it would be logical for you to simply describe it.

You're a master at delaying an answer to a simple question. I wonder why?

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I'll wait...probably forever.

"Tis a consummation, devoutly to be wished"

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Not according to the Bible. So WG, what do you think unconditional love and acceptance mean?

It means we don't have to do anything to be loved by God -- we don't have to behave a certain way or think a certain way or talk a certain way. God's love is agape, perfect love. It’s independent of our mistakes or life situation. We can't experience the fullness of God's freedom, peace, and joy until we fully give Him our hearts in return. BUT, whether we do that or not, He still loves us and won't dump us, as it says in Hebrews 13:5. God’s unconditional love for us is the love that gives us the model for our own lives. If we could master this kind of love, our world would be hate-free. I Cor. 13:4-7. In thanks to God for His amazing love, we will heed Micah 6:8.

Many words don’t hide your non-understanding. Mt 25 is correct and your understanding of unconditional love is faulty...whatever it is. You plainly cannot even describe it yourself. So you are asking, “How does Mt. 25 agree with my flawed, non-specific, unsupported, unbiblical, foggy, vague understanding of unconditional love?”

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

It means we don't have to do anything to be loved by God -- we don't have to behave a certain way or think a certain way or talk a certain way. God's love is agape, perfect love. It’s independent of our mistakes or life situation. We can't experience the fullness of God's freedom, peace, and joy until we fully give Him our hearts in return. BUT, whether we do that or not, He still loves us and won't dump us, as it says in Hebrews 13:5. God’s unconditional love for us is the love that gives us the model for our own lives. If we could master this kind of love, our world would be hate-free. I Cor. 13:4-7. In thanks to God for His amazing love, we will heed Micah 6:8.

WOW! Impressive.

Jl will probably say it's unbiblical. Or wrong. Or incorrect. He does things like that when he's at a loss.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Many words don’t hide your non-understanding. Mt 25 is correct and your understanding of unconditional love is faulty...whatever it is. You plainly cannot even describe it yourself. So you are asking, “How does Mt. 25 agree with my flawed, non-specific, unsupported, unbiblical, foggy, vague understanding of unconditional love?”

Woops - I missed this. I almost had you right, didn't I? Whatever.

You don't know what unconditional love is - "whatever it is" - yet you accuse WG's description as "faulty"? I give you 4 Pinocchios. And one great big CHUTZPAH!

Athos, my response was to you, and not to her. She, unlike you, has the courage to give an answer.

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It means we don't have to do anything to be loved by God -- we don't have to behave a certain way or think a certain way or talk a certain way. God's love is agape, perfect love. It’s independent of our mistakes or life situation. We can't experience the fullness of God's freedom, peace, and joy until we fully give Him our hearts in return. BUT, whether we do that or not, He still loves us and won't dump us, as it says in Hebrews 13:5

My congratulations to you. You made a good effort. However, what you are missing is this. "I will never leave you or forsake you." Who is the "you" in that text? Is it everyone, or those who have committed to Christ as Lord and Savior? The answer is in verse 6. "So we say with confidence, “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?” He is not your Lord until you make Him your Lord. Now when you see that, it fits perfectly into John 3:16. They are in perfect harmony.

You are confusing unconditional love with unconditional salvation. "All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Who will be saved? "All who call upon the name of the Lord." Or again, "Behold, I lay in Zion a choice stone, a precious corner stone, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed." Who will not be disappointed? "He who believes in Him."

God's unconditional love is stunning in its perfection, that He would send, "His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have life everlasting."

It is true that, " we don't have to do anything to be loved by God." But to be accepted by God, and to enter His family and Kingdom? Different story. "to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,"

I commend you for your courage and willingness to answer a simple question. There is much in your answer I agree with.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It is true that, "we don't have to do anything to be loved by God." But to be accepted by God, and to enter His family and Kingdom? Different story. "

Nope. Same story. If I cursed Him from now until my dying day, He would not reject me, but would continue to love me. That sounds like unconditional love to me. God doesn't say, "I love you IF ..."

To be accepted is not the same as to be loved. They are not synonymous. John 3:16 spells it out very clearly. "For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have life everlasting." He loves everyone, but His love does not rescue people. It makes the way of rescue accessible. And yet many still perish because they will not come to Him in the only manner acceptable to Him, and that is through believing in His Son.

If you don't find that agreeable, then please give me your view of that verse.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

To be accepted is not the same as to be loved.

You must not have children.

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He loves everyone, but His love does not rescue people.

What about Adam and Eve? Noah and his family? Baby Moses? the thief on the cross? Doubting Thomas? Did God rescue them or still love them because of their goodness, good behavior, their belief?

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And yet many still perish because they will not come to Him in the only manner acceptable to Him, and that is through believing in His Son.

Bumper sticker popular back in the '80s: "I found God!"
Nope. It should have said: "God found me!"

Have 3.

Read Hebrews 11:39,40 to get your answer. How did those OT saints gain approval?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Have 3.

You stop loving them after they do a bad thing? Then, they must re-earn your love?

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Read Hebrews 11:39,40 to get your answer. How did those OT saints gain approval?

No approval otherwise? The burden was on them? They had to earn it? (Sounds like school)

Faith doesn’t earn.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Faith doesn’t earn.

I have no clue what that means.

Read Romans, the first four chapters.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Read Romans, the first four chapters.

No. Tell me in your own words.

No. Do the work. If you want to know, you will.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

No. Do the work. If you want to know, you will.

I want the explanation coming out of your brain, in your own words.

“I want.” It’s our great downfall.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

“I want.” It’s our great downfall.

Stop beating around the bush! Produce an explanation in your own words, please.

I went to Bible College for two years. I have read that passage probably a hundred times and studied it repeatedly. If you want to know something, then put out some effort. Nothing worthwhile is cheap.

I will give you this much help. "Salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone."

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I went to Bible College for two years. I have read that passage probably a hundred times and studied it repeatedly. If you want to know something, then put out some effort. Nothing worthwhile is cheap.

I will give you this much help. "Salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone."

I went to a Bible college for FOUR years.

We're not talking about salvation. We're talking about God's unconditional love for us.