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Originally Posted by jlisenbe
If you cut 50% you might be ahead after 10 years, meanwhile, the nation would fall apart around you, you are addicted to pork and welfare. You have fallen for the debt trap, human nature to want what you don't have. Where would you cut 15%, the military? medicare? welfare? foreign aid? economics says instant recession
50% is ridiculous. 15% is do-able. Wouldn't be fun, and it would need to be done over two or three years, but we really have no other choices. We can have unpleasant surgery now, or face death later. I think it would boost our economy when business leaders see that we are now being run by grown-ups.
"Across the board" means everything. We cannot continue to borrow hundreds of billions every year. At some point sources will dry up, and then what? I'm not willing to put off the unpleasant and end up some day down the road in disaster.
The military would be a good place to start, and it will necessitate telling countries like Australia that we can no longer defend the entire world, so other nations (like yours) will have to start doing what they should have been doing 30 years ago and spend enough to be able to defend themselves. We spend 3.4% of GDP on defense. You guys spend less than 2% which is also true of the European nations. It would cheer my heart to see other nations have to man up and pick up the slack.
What you spend on "defence" is ridiculous and fuels an arms race from which you profit, You say we should spend more but spending is 2% with expensive acquisition programs for aircraft, ships, submarines and we have no enemies, and we host american bases which you need to defend because we don't need to. You are very one eyed, but we are not Europe, we don't have Russians on our doorstep, so how about you spend 2% like the rest of us, but that sort of reduction is only a few billion, you need many more cuts and you can't afford them. Whole industries would collapse. By the way, we have a mutual defence treaty with the US and so far it has cost us much more than it has cost you with our participation in every US war so, as we say here, up your nose with a rubber hoseQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Having trouble distinguishing between our friend here from the dufus sometimes Clete? Me too.
Cutting 15% across the board means cutting PEOPLE who provide the goods and services those cuts represent, so it's not just a matter of money, which won't yield that balanced budget or tackle the debt in a few years. Especially not in the midst of a budget busting pandemic, where health and financial security of it's citizens is severely threatened already. I mean 15% of the folks are already unemployed so adding to that number doesn't solve the problem, just makes it worse both short term and long term.
We need investment to grow our way out of this crisis while half the country languishes in poverty not contributing to the well being of the country, so say conservatives, as we enrich the rich, and keep the poor poorer, and watch sickness and death rise even further.
I think we do better voting JL and the dufus out and get better managers to begin with. Keeping half the country on the bench during the big game and blaming the water boy for being down at halftime, is not the makings of a good coach. Fire the coach!
Tal, complain all you want, but we either have to increase taxes ENORMOUSLY, decrease spending considerably, do some combination of those two, or keep driving towards the edge of the cliff at an ever faster speed. Take your pick.
Clete, I would close our bases in Australia. I would reduce our number of foreign commitments and make it very clear who our true allies are. One wonderful effect of this would be the nations who treat us with disdain would have to start paying their own way.
Not very good at math, are you? If we went to 2%, it would be a reduction of about 40%, or more than 200 billion dollars.Quote:
so how about you spend 2% like the rest of us, but that sort of reduction is only a few billion,
Does that consider the 80,000+ Australians who supported the US forces by fighting along side them from Korea to Afghanistan with 5,000 casualties and 1,000 killed?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I still like my idea better and that starts with voting out you and the dufus and your tired old ideas of divide and conquer, and invest in some home improvements that unites the country, and restructures the debts to palatable levels, and doesn't make more enemies from our friends, because you want to dictate, dominate and assimilate, rather than negotiate, cooperate, and execute a plan that works for all, like it says in the founding documents.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I would go along with your raising taxes enormously, since it would be amusing to watch the ones that could afford such a strategy to go along with it. Or the jobs lost from cutting spending that adds to the poor folks. The dufus has already insulted and disdained our allies and smoozed our enemies, so yeah let me know how withdrawing troops and closing bases works for you after all them soldiers get redeployed to the soup lines.
I think I may well have the votes to get what I want dude, and you can finally get some fresh air from your current position shoulder deep, and can finally let your nose go, AFTER you vote for Biden!
Then we can have an honest discussion about REAL solutions to the problems and issues that are growing steadily. Or should I just grab your conservative ankles and drag you into this century!
Take your pick!*
*Nothing personal so don't get your drawers in a bunch 8D
Your plan. 1. Elect big spending democrats which will increase the debt even more. 2. Raise taxes a lot on people not named Tal. 3. Ignore reality at all costs. 4. Live in a fantasy world as long as possible until in crumbles and reality floods in with in a nasty manner.Quote:
I still like my idea better and that starts with voting out you and the dufus and your tired old ideas of divide and conquer, and invest in some home improvements that unites the country, and restructures the debts to palatable levels, and doesn't make more enemies from our friends, because you want to dictate, dominate and assimilate, rather than negotiate, cooperate, and execute a plan that works for all, like it says in the founding documents.
I would go along with your raising taxes enormously, since it would be amusing to watch the ones that could afford such a strategy to go along with it.
He doesn't consider that at all or the thousands who were killed in Vietnam and Korea, because he has a narrow selfish view of history and what he says is America should withdraw from the world and sit on their blessed assurance as they did before WWII. If they are going to do this they should stop antagonising Russia and ChinaQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
You said you have no enemies. Why should we have bases there? At any rate, my concern is for our country first. We cannot continue spending money like it grows on trees. Cuts are coming, one way or the other.Quote:
He doesn't consider that at all or the thousands who were killed in Vietnam and Korea, because he has a narrow selfish view of history and what he says is America should withdraw from the world and sit on their blessed assurance as they did before WWII. If they are going to do this they should stop antagonising Russia and China.
Your bases here are putting your country first by allowing you to have bases closer to Asia and listening posts. You don't know how vast the pacific is and you occupy a few islands, a legacy of WWII as are all your overseas bases excepting the ones here. You reconquered the Philippines and they kicked you out, should tell you something about faithfull allies. This is the one place you didn't conquer and yet you would throw us aside like a used doormat in the name of America first, but when has America ever been second in your thinkingQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Got to balance the budget. You say you have no enemies, so I take your word for it. Doesn't sound like we are needed.
Listening posts? I think Okinawa is a lot closer to what we would need to listen to. Perhaps you could go from 2% of GDP to 2.5% of GDP and do some listening yourselves.
No, you are not needed here. We do enough listening ourselves and what we hear we don't like. Our priorities are not yours and yours are not ours. We have to put up with the stupid backwash of your black lives matter protests. We have balanced budgets so won't unbalance them for your objectives, only our own, which is looking after our people. We don't need to shout to the world that our people come first, and as we don't have an empire to shackle we don't need to spend more. We can have universal health care and a 2% military budget, why don't you try it? your might like it. Oh I forget, you have to balance your budget first, so maybe neverQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
If we are not needed there, then what are you complaining about? See ya later.
Like the dufus you seems so self absorbed you cannot respect the bonds built from shared experiences that worked out well for us and our allies.
To want to have a balanced budget is "self absorbed"??? And, of course, it has to be "Like Trump." Have you no ability to process information that does not involve expressing your hatred of Trump? I've never come across someone so incapable of making a simple comment without having to throw in, "I hate Trump" just about every fourth word. "We need to reduce spending." "Oh yeah, well I hate Trump."
"We should cut military spending." "Oh yeah, well I hate Trump."
"I'm going to the store to buy some groceries." "Oh yeah, well I hate Trump."
"I have an idea about cutting spending." "Oh yeah, well Trump is an idiot and so are you."
It really gets old. Everything is not intensely personal. Everything does not center around Trump. Many ideas are independent of him, so perhaps we could discuss how to cut spending non-politically. It is coming. You can be assured of that.
Might add that we don't owe Australia anything. They'd be speaking Japanese today if we hadn't bailed them out in WW2. I'm not prepared for us to go bankrupt to keep a military force in a country that only spends 2% of GDP on its own defense.
Why are you mad at me for pointing out you sound like the dufus? More and more everyday. That's not my fault or problem. Case in point...
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Might add that we don't owe Australia anything. They'd be speaking Japanese today if we hadn't bailed them out in WW2. I'm not prepared for us to go bankrupt to keep a military force in a country that only spends 2% of GDP on its own defense.
Because you don't go away, you keep coming and making demands like freedom of navigation demands, we have never had any trouble navigating the south china sea, maybe because we send freighters not warships. You don't realise that what you do makes it more difficult for everyone while you sit back and pontificated from the WHQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Why are you complaining? I'm suggesting we leave. Like I said, "See ya later".
Thank you for proving my point.Quote:
Why are you mad at me for pointing out you sound like the dufus?
It was a question and whatever your point was is lost in your over exaggerations which the dufus does all the time. He always feels attacked (Most times he is correct!) when others disagree with him so he lashes out with nonsense...like you do so why are you mad at me for pointing that out? That was the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
1. Show me my exaggerations. I'd love to see them.
2. I never mentioned Trump. You just had to involve him just so everyone can see how much you hate him. Well OK.
3. This was your original STATEMENT. "Like the dufus you seems so self absorbed you cannot respect the bonds built from shared experiences that worked out well for us and our allies." Just shows once again how much of your mind is occupied by Trump. It's like a love affair except it's based on hatred.
I love that Australia is our allies . Despite the rhetoric they always put up when it counts . If I have not made my position clear ;there should be an alliance of all former Brit colonies in a common interest alliance .No other freedom loving peoples quite share our values . btw . The Brits have a statue of Cromwell that no one dare think of taking down even though he was responsible for the impaling of Catholics . You do NOT destroy your history like the Taliban,ISIS and the left would have .
I'm fine with doing what you suggest. The bigger question is, how do we get to a balanced budget?
I think that our alliances both military, intelligence, trade and many other areas are important enough not to make public pronouncements against them, and the dufus doesn't quite get that. Partners don't threaten each other do they? I can do without such tactics myself.
So how are we going to balance the budget?
a robust economy is a starter . then if you are going to make cuts in foreign policy start with the money that goes to enemies. As far as the Aussies go ;they don't get free passes ;far from it . The only reason Aussie treasure and blood went to Afghanistan was because of provisions of ANZUS . Yes we have bases there . But the Aussies also have 580 defense personnel in 31 states embedded into the US military . The Aussies conduct joint defense exercises like 'Talisman Saber ' with the US forces and other alliance forces . This exercise occurs in Aussie's territory every couple years, and would not be possible without the support and cooperation of the locals . The Aussies have been our only ally which has had our back in every conflict we have been in since WWII .
The Aussies spend 2% of GDP on defense. The European "allies" spend a similar amount. We spend almost 3.5%. That has to change.
You can only change what we spend.
Here we go, the imperialists telling us how we should behave, if we need a standing army of a million men we would quickly get one as we did in WWII, the only reason our expenditure is at the level it is is we don't keep a million men standing around, instead our standing army are hard core special forces who I seem to recall spearheaded your incursion into Iraq. Our expenditure is appropriate and has been increased from the days of socialist government. Yes your military expenditure has to change, you have too many aircraft carrier groups wandering the worldQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I don't care what you do, but I have no plans on bankrupting our country to defend countries that don't want to adequately defend themselves.
Is this the latest Trump talking/tweeting point, you want to reduce your bases in Europe, go ahead, it doesn't worry me, you want to reduce your bases in Asia, go ahead, it doesn't worry me. A little less argy, bargy in the world is a good thing and afterall you need the troops on the street to control all those black peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-...fc569108902449
tell me is taking Hydoxychloroquine a prelude to madness?
we need to move our troops in Europe to Poland and stop occupying German beer halls ..
as Napoleon said ;a whiff of grape would take care of that autonomous zoneQuote:
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-...fc569108902449
tell me is taking Hydoxychloroquine a prelude to madness?
We need to balance the budget. Simple concept.
which autonomous zone do you speak of? Germany. Poland, I agree that you should vacate German beer halls, but invade Poland, no many have tried that route and it always leads to disasterQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I think he was referring to Seattle.
Won't need cannons . The CHAZians are eating their own inside the autonomous zone . The guy with the AK is calling himself a warlord . The residents inside the zone(it is a residential neighborhood) have had all their liberties taken away and the moron mayor is calling it a block party . This cannot last .
@JL, whose holding you or anyone else responsible for the past? What's does that have to do with acknowledging the cruelty and atrocities and making redress for it?
It won't and negotiations are at the early stage of a peaceful solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
What's to negotiate ? They are illegally occupying a police station ,a public park ,and a residential neighborhood holding taxpaying residents hostage . Get out now. I told you about what happened to the bonus army for a reason. Businesses in the surrounding blocks are hiring private security firms because of the risk on the occupation expanding into their neighborhoods and knowing the police have been emasculated .
I know what their demands are .... abolish the police ;free health care and free education. Typical progressive pabulum. Since they are autonomous they should just declare that the law in their occupied territory and provide it themselves. And speaking of contradictions ;the very first thing they did was to set up border walls to control who enters their territory . and now a quick message from Raz the warlord of CHAZ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clZ5pdrc_X8
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