You're kidding, right? Please reread what Athos wrote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
|
You're kidding, right? Please reread what Athos wrote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
Quote:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/images...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Vacuum7 https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/images...post-right.png GERMANS wrote parts of the BIBLE? Never heard that before.
That's nothing. V7 also saw a video where Biden bragged about firing the prosecutor who was investigating his son. HEY, V7 says EVERYBODY saw the video and heard it! Somebody please call the WH. They could use that information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
Look, if the President even speaks about someone firing a prosecutor it is grounds for impeachment, but of a would be candidate does it, who cares, Not the DNC, obviously
Quelle (SOURCE) in German: I took this to mean that the portion of the Bible being discussed was of German origin.
Biden is on video bragging about get the top Ukrainian Prosecutor fired: This is the same prosecutor who was investigating the firm that Biden's son worked for: When a "firm" is investigated, ALL of its management is INVESTIGATED under the umbrella of the investigation. This prosecutor is on record saying that he intended to investigate Hunter Biden. IN EFFECT, if OLD Biden is bragging about getting someone who is fixing to investigate his son fired because his son, Hunter, is part of the firm being investigated: By straight-forward inference, you can say that OLD JOE BIDEN is bragging about getting a prosecutor fired who was getting ready to investigate his son: THIS IS IRREFUTABLE! WORDS MEAN THINGS!
That's a HUGE leap! The WORD is from the German.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
Your site name, Vacuum, is from the Latin and means "empty." Using your logic, what are we to deduce about you from that?
What an incredible mish-mash of hodge-podge this is! Even for you, V7, it's far out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacuum7
YES, THEY DO. THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING WHERE IS THE VIDEO YOU CLAIMED TO HAVE SEEN. YOU CLAIMED IT IN WORDS!!! You know, those irrefutable words that mean things! (Good grief).Quote:
THIS IS IRREFUTABLE! WORDS MEAN THINGS!
JL asked my what my position re hell is. I'm a coward since I won't answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
My question for him is does he still believe that unbelievers go to hell for eternal punishment. Lately, he seems to be reversing that position a little. Maybe not.
Tell him to include what happens to the Buddhist who lived before Christ and never heard of him. Does the Buddhist go to hell for eternity because he never heard of or believed in Christ?
If he includes the Buddhist result, I'll tell him my position re hell.
You said it, not me.Quote:
JL asked my what my position re hell is. I'm a coward since I won't answer.
What happens to the Buddhists? They will be judged for their sins like you, me, and everybody else. It's what I have been telling you for a while now. Serving a false god(s) does not profit a person, though Buddhism is really more of a philosophy than a religion based upon belief in god. Still, Jesus came to save sinners from the judgement of God, and there is no other name given under heaven whereby men must be saved than Jesus. Either that, or Acts 4:12 is mistaken.
OK. There you go. Now let's hear your statement about hell and God's judgement. Honestly, I don't care if you state a position or not. I think that if you do, it will likely be completely unbiblical, hopelessly vague, or will attempt to largely negate the clear language of scripture by making it all metaphorical and thus subject to any one of dozens of meaningless interpretations, but hopefully you'll prove me wrong. Perhaps we'll see.
Don't know if I know many people who live so strictly by scripture, or who judge others on it either. Or worse just set things up just so they can bash others over the head. Is using the gospel as a cudgel really a winning tactic? Or does it give you a perverse pleasure and you have some cruel underlying tendencies?
What are you hiding with such passive aggressive behavior? Mostly aggressive. No knock, just an observation. I'll admit I can be aggressive too, often without provocation, which may be me just projecting what I see in myself at times on you but I honestly think it goes DEEPER.
You are up early, or still up late for sure.
"Some cruel underlying tendencies?" Probably. Most of us do. God rides me all the time about trying to stay humble and kind in my responses. It's a challenge. The biggest irritant I have is people who want to misrepresent what I say and who will not answer questions. If you're big enough to criticize the views of others, then be big enough to put your own views out there. You know I appreciate your willingness to speak your mind. I'd like for everyone to do that. Some won't.Quote:
Don't know if I know many people who live so strictly by scripture, or who judge others on it either. Or worse just set things up just so they can bash others over the head. Is using the gospel as a cudgel really a winning tactic? Or does it give you a perverse pleasure and you have some cruel underlying tendencies?
I am aggressive. Isn't that kind of like you??? These issues are not play things to me. It's not like we're discussing the impeachment hearings that, a hundred years from now, will matter but little. Issues of eternity are critical and I want people to be honest in their responses, so yeah, I do push kind of hard. I try not to be rude. I don't call names, and if you'll remember, I've told you to call me out on it if I call names. Honestly, you irritate me when you want to point these things out in me, and then let Athos have a free ride when he is very much the chief offender. Just being honest here. I think you're honest enough to admit that is true.Quote:
What are you hiding with such passive aggressive behavior? Mostly aggressive. No knock, just an observation. I'll admit I can be aggressive too, often without provocation, which may be me just projecting what I see in myself at times on you but I honestly think it goes DEEPER.
Up early. Had a couple of weird dreams so I got on the web to settle down a bit.Quote:
You are up early, or still up late for sure.
Strange how I understand Athos AND WG almost perfectly, but I can understand how guys like us can be rather annoying and as my wife says so frustrating sometimes, trying to make a point or mostly with me when I don't want to hear what others have to say, you know, well because I know I'm right, or want to be right so bad LOL, but a big part of humility is listening and asking questions to gain what the heck others are feeling and talking about. Now that's a heckuva self admission from a big ego, but in no way does that mean I let you off the hook in the future or going soft now just because I learned my lesson the hard way through mistakes, blunders, and stupidity, and just shut up listen and accept, that I have people who actually yell me that I'm so full of crap, and strangely I am grateful for it.
I understand your feelings JL, and know that it's just as important for you to be right about God and gospel, and that's okay with me but it's not the same importance to others as it is with you, and it would be a better world if everybody would be as you are about it but that's not LIFE, or reality maybe yours, but certainly not mine.
Heck dude if everyone was more like me then the world would be a better place too! Then you would really be chasing me with a bible or a stick to beat me about the head to wipe the silly grin off my face wouldn't you? 8D Don't answer, we both got our running shoes on this morning. Right? Always ready for action!
I'm grateful just to be HERE! You?
That made me laugh. We are way too much alike.Quote:
in no way does that mean I let you off the hook in the future or going soft now just because I learned my lesson the hard way through mistakes, blunders, and stupidity, and just shut up listen and accept, that I have people who actually yell me that I'm so full of crap, and strangely I am grateful for it.
It's not so much that I want to be right as much as I want to know the truth. If I am proven wrong but better learn the truth, then so be it.Quote:
I understand your feelings JL, and know that it's just as important for you to be right about God and gospel, and that's okay with me but it's not the same importance to others as it is with you, and it would be a better world if everybody would be as you are about it but that's not LIFE, or reality maybe yours, but certainly not mine.
I'm going to be in FW one of these days and take you up on the cup of coffee!Quote:
Heck dude if everyone was more like me then the world would be a better place too! Then you would really be chasing me with a bible or a stick to beat me about the head to wipe the silly grin off my face wouldn't you? 8D Don't answer, we both got our running shoes on this morning. Right? Always ready for action!
At my age, absolutely!Quote:
I'm grateful just to be HERE! You?
[QUOTE=jlisenbe;3844403]
Honestly, you sure act as thought you do. You've been asking for my position for months.Quote:
Honestly, I don't care if you state a position or not.
No.Quote:
I think that if you do, it will likely be completely unbiblical
Nope.Quote:
hopelessly vague
No again, but keep trying.Quote:
will attempt to largely negate the clear language of scripture
Finally, no and no and no. Finished?Quote:
making it all metaphorical
Now, you're clickin'.Quote:
hopefully you'll prove me wrong.
I'll answer when you answer my question. You didn't do that. You side-stepped it (as usual).Quote:
What happens to the Buddhists? They will be judged for their sins like you, me, and everybody else.
My question - Does a Buddhist go to hell for eternity because he never heard of or believed in Christ? Simple question, demanding a simple answer.
I did my part. Why am I not surprised? I'm not holding my breath.Quote:
If he includes the Buddhist result, I'll tell him my position re hell.
No you didn't. Read again my post - you missed the last part probably because of similar times in posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
It takes a bunch of faith to beleive in the words of guys that have been dead for thousands of years. At least for me it does. That Christians and Muslims are so different boggles my mind as all religions on the Earth are made up of HUMANS.
Hey whatever makes us feel better and gives us hope and guidance I suppose.
If it's just their words it would be stupid to have any faith at all in them.Quote:
It takes a bunch of faith to beleive in the words of guys that have been dead for thousands of years.
What is there beyond their words?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I know it makes you nervous for me to quote scripture, but check these out.Quote:
What is there beyond their words?
Heb. 1:1In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
2 Peter. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
I still want to know what you think about the words of Christ in Matthew 25.
Plus centuries have passed, cultures are different, languages cause difficulties, human motivations and hopes vary.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Words on a page. I ask again, what is there beyond their words?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I'm certainly not going to be kind and merciful because I'm afraid of "eternal hellfire"!
No wonder you don't seem to know what you think about Matthew 25. If I believed your quote above, I'd just throw my Bible away. I'm not interested in feeling better. I'm interested in following Christ.Quote:
Plus centuries have passed, cultures are different, languages cause difficulties, human motivations and hopes vary.
Hey whatever makes us feel better and gives us hope and guidance I suppose
God's words. Did you even bother to read those scriptures? You say you studied theology. Man I'm glad I didn't go to the school you went to.Quote:
Words on a page. I ask again, what is there beyond their words?
JL - you're avoiding the question - Does a Buddhist go to hell because he has never heard of Jesus and does not believe in him.
Your first answer didn't directly answer.
You joined up my quote with someone else's. Not fair!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
God's words that have been translated over and over again and misinterpreted far too many times. Which translation am I supposed to use?Quote:
God's words. Did you even bother to read those scriptures? You say you studied theology. Man I'm glad I didn't go to the school you went to.
(If you are interested in following Christ, please stop with the putdowns.)
I don't like it either. This program doesn't seem to give me an option. I can type what is a separate message and it just joins it to the previous one.Quote:
You joined up my quote with someone else's. Not fair!
There are many translations but that's not a problem. 98% to 99% of the text of the NT is not in question, and even that small part that is does not present problems. And here we are in America with plenty of money to buy all of the translations we want, and then we can go to any one of many websites and toggle between translations. We can even go to school and learn Greek, so I'm not sure why you are asking that question. We are in an ocean of good translations. I like the NASB and ESV. I sometimes read the NIV. I use the Amplified version and the Living Bible as sort of commentaries. Take a pick and start.Quote:
God's words that have been translated over and over again and misinterpreted far too many times. Which translation am I supposed to use?
If you don't think that Jesus could be confrontational and speak in a direct manner, then you haven't read the NT. He was frequently kind and gentle, but not always. You say you've been to Bible classes. Well then, you should know some things.Quote:
(If you are interested in following Christ, please stop with the putdowns.)
I answered the question clearly. Now try being honest and take a position.Quote:
JL - you're avoiding the question - Does a Buddhist go to hell because he has never heard of Jesus and does not believe in him.
Your first answer didn't directly answer.
WHAT???? You and I need to have a private tutoring session about quoting another poster.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I have already. I was just fishing to find out if you are a KJV fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I know LOTS of things. Jesus even used a whip to drive moneylenders out of the temple. But He didn't use putdowns.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I know how to quote. That's not what I'm talking about. I mean that I respond to one person, and get a separate text box and respond to a second person, but then it just joins the second one to the first one.Quote:
WHAT???? You and I need to have a private tutoring session about quoting another poster.
Have you read this? "17Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked them: “Why are you talking about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened? 18Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear? And don’t you remember? 19When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?” “Twelve,” they replied. 20“And when I broke the seven loaves for the four thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?” They answered, “Seven.” 21He said to them, “Do you still not understand?”Quote:
But He didn't use putdowns.
You call it a putdown. I call what I do simply challenging people, like you, to think. For instance, if you wanted to know if I am a KJV only guy, then why not just ask? Why make reference to the Bible as though it is just the words of men? You have to know better than that.
You have to use (minus spaces) [ quote ] at the beginning of a quote and [ /quote ] at the end of a quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Okay. I'll take all your putdowns as challenges from here on.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Huh?? Why are you still talking about quotes? Can you see from my posts I know how to indicate a quote? The problem is when one text box is fused into another.Quote:
You have to use (minus spaces) [ quote ] at the beginning of a quote and [ /quote ] at the end of a quote.
Better yet, understand from the get-go that they are not putdowns.Quote:
Okay. I'll take all your putdowns as challenges from here on.
I'm glad we have that settled.
They fuse to each other when you don't differentiate between them, that one is by e.g., tal and one by me. If you quote more than one person, the quotes end up in the same speech box. If you don't differentiate, they look like they're from the same person.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Okey dokey.Quote:
Better yet, understand from the get-go that they are not putdowns.
Me too.Quote:
I'm glad we have that settled.
Now who's being honest? You have NOT answered the question clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
My original question ----- "What happens to the Buddhist who lived before Christ and never heard of him. DOES THE BUDDHIST GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY BECAUSE HE NEVER HEARD OR BELIEVED IN CHRIST"?
Note the underlining.
Your side-stepping answer ------ "They will be judged for their sins like you, me, and everyone else".
Last chance, JL, answer the question.
OK. One more time for the first grade students. The question is, ""What happens to the Buddhist who lived before Christ and never heard of him. DOES THE BUDDHIST GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY BECAUSE HE NEVER HEARD OR BELIEVED IN CHRIST?"Quote:
Now who's being honest? You have NOT answered the question clearly.
My original question ----- "What happens to the Buddhist who lived before Christ and never heard of him. DOES THE BUDDHIST GO TO HELL FOR ETERNITY BECAUSE HE NEVER HEARD OR BELIEVED IN CHRIST"?
Note the underlining.
Your side-stepping answer ------ "They will be judged for their sins like you, me, and everyone else".
Last chance, JL, answer the question.
The answer is this. No, the Buddhist does not go to hell for eternity because he never heard or believed in Christ. He will be judged for his sins just like everyone else. Gosh. That answer is like the other three I have posted.
Now, having answered your question four times now, let's see if you will answer my question. If you don't then everyone will see you for what you are Athos, a scared person too afraid to do what you said you would do. Oh well. Remember Matthew 25???
No, JL, the fear is all yours. Afraid to answer a simple question.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
That tells me you are thinking that maybe you had it wrong - at least partially, and you don't want to go on record with a direct answer to - Do unbelievers go to hell for eternal punishment because they don't believe.
I think you're finally realizing that your position is absurd for many reasons. That's good.
Your next step is to analyze where that belief comes from. No, it's not your Bible, JL. That idea has been debunked many times even tho you refuse to see it.
Like Jesus said, "The Kingdom of God is within you", so your belief about hell is within you.
That was your last chance to know my position - I certainly gave you enough chances - now you will say you don't care. But we both know differently, don't we, JL?
Good luck to you.
Look above. Against my better judgement, I answered for the fourth time now.
Your turn!!
Ah, I didn't see your answer. Very good. I'll make an exception since the posts probably coincided.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I'm heartened by your answer. To wit: UNBELIEVERS DO NOT GO TO HELL FOR ETERNAL PUNISHMENT BECAUSE THEY ARE UNBELIEVERS.
Congratulations, JL. It took a man to say that.
As promised, I do not believe in hell defined as a place of eternal punishment.
Correct, which has been my view from the beginning. Thankfully you finally caught on the fourth time. The problem has been your inability to see the difference between saying, "Unbelievers go to hell," versus saying, "People are sent to hell for their unbelief". It's the same difference as saying, "People from New York are sent to hell," versus saying, "People are sent to hell for being from New York." Hopefully you see that now.Quote:
I'm heartened by your answer. To wit: UNBELIEVERS DO NOT GO TO HELL FOR ETERNAL PUNISHMENT BECAUSE THEY ARE UNBELIEVERS.
Thank goodness for your stated position which was arrived at with more effort than pulling a tooth, but at least it is here. " I do not believe in hell defined as a place of eternal punishment." We can now await your long promised analysis of the words of Christ concerning an eternal hell in Matthew 25.
what is all this condemnation stuff? it is really easy to understand if you are listening and not carrying-on about your own beliefs.
Start in John; '"God so loved the world that he sent his son" Jesus.
Now, why did he send Jesus if any old belief was ok? Because everyone had fallen short, gone their own way.
So Jesus said; "I am the way, the truth and the life"
He also said this is my body broken for you, Symbolism?, Yes, but the following day his body was broken
Once again, why did this need to happen? Because noone can cover their own sin, it took the blood of some one pure, and that someone is Jesus, so belive in him
Good luck, Clete. If you say all of that about ten times, it might begin to have some impact.
You and I both know you either get it or reject it. faith is a gift, and without it, the message is lostQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Well there is at least one unbeliever among us, but we all need to move on, but in my defence, I am not the only one who has been doing that
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:38 PM. |