Ask Me Help Desk - Democrat aversion to reality

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Originally Posted by talaniman

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Originally Posted by paraclete

The is a polarised electorate in the US and I don't think they know how to deal with this. They don't seem to understand you can't have your way all the time

So we should roll over and accept what we don't want?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

So we should roll over and accept what we don't want?

Much of the U.S. had to when Bush decided to invade Iraq.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

When did they get the impression I am left wing? By Australian political standards I am centre right, but that is a long way left of right of our US cousins.

The reality is you and I have lived with subsidised health care for a long time, It hasn't killed us yet despite the horror stories. We have lived with social restructuring, the government fiddling with everything from transport to taxation. We have lived with gun control. I can't really say I am worse off but I might be the exception. The only thing that has cost me any money is the crisis that arises in the US with monotonous regularity

The is a polarised electorate in the US and I don't think they know how to deal with this. They don't seem to understand you can't have your way all the time

Yeah we are always told to go along to get along. Funny how in contrast ,the Dems play for keeps .

America is bigger than just the TParty, so qualify your "we" with being part of a whole, but certainly NOT the whole.

It's the assumption your principles are shared by everybody that's the conflict, for which there is no compromise by you guys.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Yeah we are always told to go along to get along. Funny how in contrast ,the Dems play for keeps .

Are you trying to say the right doesn't play for keeps, that they didn't try to take their bat and ball and go home? Both sides want to keep their victories, however conservatives don't want change, and change is inevietable

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that they didn't try to take their bat and ball and go home?

Except that isn't what happened .To refresh your memory ,it was the emperor who said he would not negotiate . It was the emperor and his flunkies in the Senate who hurled insults ;calling the Repubics terrorist holding the country hostage . Note that now the Dems get it and it's the Dems who are pressuring the emperor /and crafting legislation to delay Obamacare .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Except that isn't what happened .To refresh your memory ,it was the emperor who said he would not negotiate . It was the emperor and his flunkies in the Senate who hurled insults ;calling the Repubics terrorist holding the country hostage . Note that now the Dems get it and it's the Dems who are pressuring the emperor /and crafting legislation to delay Obamacare .

Well if they have found some flaws that is as it should be, demonstrates a willingness to be flexible. I recall it was Bonehead, as you call him, who wouldn't let a vote be taken, so yes the analogy fits.

Tom, I recognise you are up the creek without a paddle over there, the legislation is a camel and you wanted a race horse, the software is a bad implementation with a tainted history. This is what you get when corruption and cronieism are permitted to get the upper hand. The system is a bad system and it stems from its original implementation, those founders of yours just didn't have enough foresight.

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I recall it was Bonehead, as you call him, who wouldn't let a vote be taken, so yes the analogy fits.

Again you got it wrong. There were many votes from the House .

Actually Clete the problems are compounded by states that decided to fight and resist doing their own websites, and plans. The states that didn't and worked on their own plans are working great. Some republican governors still haven't come on board so how do you intergrate with a state that has no plan? Where do insurance companies register their prices/coverages in those states with NO plans and NO technical infrastructure?

No cooperation leads to many glitches and delays, as much as anything. No we can't blame the founders on this but clearly the flounders are at fault, despite the slow roll out by the government.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Again you got it wrong. There were many votes from the House .

You know very well I was speaking of a particular recent conflict

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Again you got it wrong. There were many votes from the House .

Piece meal fixes to match the headlines? That's governing by crisis that republicans caused to happen. The question is did you learn from this or will you listen to Ted again and crash the economy... it only cost us 24 billion for 16 days last time.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

No cooperation leads to many glitches and delays, as much as anything. No we can't blame the founders on this but clearly the flounders are at fault, despite the slow roll out by the government.

Hi Tal, my reference to founders in is respect of the system of "governance" and Tom's continued assertion of the perfection of its conception, but yes, floundering would seem to be the current turn of events.

What you have is too many political leaders and too many opportunities for local stuffing about and obstructionism. Where I come from we have resolved this in health care; federal funding and state implementation with the provision that there is a common set of procedures and policies, so states don't go it alone without it costing them big time. No petty potentuates allowed

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You know very well I was speaking of a particular recent conflict

Very aware . The Repubics made many proposals to end the impass before the shutdown and after .It was the emperor who (in his own words ) would not negotiate .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Very aware . The Repubics made many proposals to end the impass before the shutdown and after .It was the emperor who (in his own words ) would not negotiate .

And who refused to negotiate in the years before that?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And who refused to negotiate in the years before that?

Ummm that would be the Senate Dems that didn't pass a budget for 3 years .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

ummm that would be the senate dems that didn't pass a budget for 3 years .

and????????

Hello again, tom:

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The Repubics made many proposals to end the impass before the shutdown and after .

Here's the truth..

Each and every one of those proposals included a defund or a delay of Obama's signature achievement.. That was NEVER EVER gonna happen, and your side KNEW it. Oh, you HOPED he'd cave like he did before. But, this time he didn't. Bummer for you. You LOST and you LOST bigtime.

Now, YOU may not believe your side shut down the government, but everybody who's NOT a Tea Partier knows you did.

excon

The disconnect is in place, either you believe your actions had impact or they did not. Fact is only those in the house can vote on a bill

Hello again,

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I'm concerned about the fact there seems to be a war on the poor. That if you're poor, somehow you're shiftless and lazy.

Wow! Didja hear this commie? He's making up another mythical right wing WAR - this time on the poor. Come on. Everybody KNOWS right wingers love the poor ALONG with women. Libs. Duh!

But, hold on there, podner. It's NOT a lib. In fact, he's the rather conservative Governor of Ohio, Republican John Kasich. He must be a RINO, then huh?

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,
Wow! Didja hear this commie? He's making up another mythical right wing WAR - this time on the poor. Come on. Everybody KNOWS right wingers love the poor ALONG with women. Libs. Duh!

But, hold on there, podner. It's NOT a lib. In fact, he's the rather conservative Governor of Ohio, Republican John Kasich. He must be a RINO, then huh?

excon

You hear some strange things lately, yes there is a war on the poor, an attempt to restrict help to them, and yes, it seems your republicans are at the forefront of this reverse largesse. Just maybe there are a few who see the sense of making availability of health care easier. If the insurers are gouging the market they should be dealt with, but the Republicans need to stop bellyaching and start taking action

Kasich is a populist more than a conservative. He's a Guv of a big swing state who wants to run for the Republican party nomination for President.He shifts with the tides. When he needs conservative support he claims he's proudly conservative (or as Mittens called it "severely conservative ) .Now he's pivoting, positioning himself as a so called centrist . He and Christie will be making the case that they are successfully governing in northern more liberal states. But Christie has a built in advantage for that support since he can make the claim that he successfully governs with a Democrat legislature in Trenton. All Kaisich is doing is splitting the GOP in Ohio .

I can tell him that being seduced by that temporary influx of Federal money to expand Medicaid is in the long run a terrible mistake ,despite the short term advantage it give the state in Federal transfers. The truth is that Medicaid is a money draining failed Federal program. Over half of the doctors no longer accept Medicaid patients because they get screwed with the reimbursement payments and are burdened with the bureaucratic regulations.What the Medicaid expansion does is trap ever more patients into a program that is seriously in need of reform itself . That's poor friendly ? Well maybe it can be spun that way... but we know better .

Tom you have to do something until the job creators get off their arses and live up to their own name.

States wouldn't even need "temporary" help if a few jobs were created. Everything should be shut down until you guys get your way or what?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Tom you have to do something until the job creators get off their arses and live up to their own name.

States wouldn't even need "temporary" help if a few jobs were created. Everything should be shut down until you guys get your way or what?

States have it within their means to get jobs. Texas is getting them . The difference is that Texas welcomes business.Kasich proposed a “frack tax” on oil and gas production and an extension of the sales tax to many services . So who is more business friendly ?

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States wouldn't even need "temporary" help if a few jobs were created.

Medicaid is bankrupting states across the union. A couple years of Federal transfers won't change that . Medicaid is in need of serious reform..... not expansion.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

You hear some strange things lately, yes there is a war on the poor, an attempt to restrict help to them, and yes, it seems your republicans are at the forefront of this reverse largesse. Just maybe there are a few who see the sense of making availability of health care easier. If the insurers are gouging the market they should be dealt with, but the Republicans need to stop bellyaching and start taking action

As opposed to the Democrats who's entitlement programs are designed to kepp the poor, poor for life, provide zero incentive to ever get off the gravy train... and continue to be leaches for life?

And some states like Nevada are sitting on huge oil and gas reserves but most of the land is owned by the feds so it will go untapped instead of giving them a huge economic boost.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

As opposed to the Democrats who's entitlement programs are designed to kepp the poor, poor for life, provide zero incentive to ever get off the gravy train... and continue to be leaches for life?

I suspect there is a difference between keeping them fed and keeping them poor, the ones who keep them poor are the ones who ship the jobs offshore and then exploit those who are poor with low wages. In order for these people to get off welfare they have to have an alternative, it is no good saying get a job if there are no jobs. It is hard to live in a bankrupt country, even harder when the country doesn't realise it is bankrupt. You once had a lot of pull factors now you need some push factors

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Originally Posted by tomder55

States have it within their means to get jobs. Texas is getting them . The difference is that Texas welcomes business.Kasich proposed a “frack tax” on oil and gas production and an extension of the sales tax to many services . So who is more business friendly ?

Medicaid is bankrupting states across the union. A couple years of Federal transfers won't change that . Medicaid is in need of serious reform..... not expansion.

Page 2: Texas Job Creation Prospers, But at What Cost? - ABC News

Income & Poverty In Texas Still Not Recovered « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

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A thriving oil and gas industry has kept unemployment below the national average since 2007, the last year before the Great Recession. Since 2008, Texas has been a national leader in adding jobs, but between 2008 and 2012, the percentage of people under 65 years old with private health insurance dropped from 57.6 percent to 54.7 percent.

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That means the majority of 2.4 million currently uninsured Texans who earn under that threshold will not be eligible for Medicaid or subsidized health insurance, according to the data. They will continue to rely on charity care provided at public hospitals, which is funded through local taxes and higher private insurance rates.

We all know what low regulations get us, and stuff blows up here all the time.

Texas Lawmakers Too Busy Targeting Abortion Providers to Deal With Exploding Fertilizer Plants | Mother Jones

Its telling what Texas spends its money on, and what it doesn't, but those jobs keeps rolling in right?

IN other words Texas should be more like Kalifornia, it's much safer and cheaper to live there. And soon, they'll be able to ride a high speed rail no one wants.

I live in Texas, and don't worry about California so much. Cuts in education bother me. Taking land from citizens for the use by a rich energy company to sell oil overseas, bothers me. It's a great state don't get me wrong, but we can do better and will.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I live in Texas, and don't worry about California so much. Cuts in education bother me. Taking land from citizens for the use by a rich energy company to sell oil overseas, bothers me. It’s a great state don't get me wrong, but we can do better and will.

Yeah ,I'm sure the libs there strive to make it more like New York .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Yeah ,I'm sure the libs there strive to make it more like New York .

Oh Hell no. We love open space, fresh air, and sunshine.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Yeah ,I'm sure the libs there strive to make it more like New York .

It's their own brand of liberalism, they're just weird.

Got plenty of that here .

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In spite of the fact that everyone knows the "if you like it you can keep it" promise was a big, fat a lie, Sebelius repeated it today.

Yeah I've head her spin for 2 hrs now . She is blaming the insurance companies.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Yeah I've head her spin for 2 hrs now . She is blaming the insurance companies.

That's how the regime admits to accountability, by blaming everyone else.

They are responsible for the grandfathered insurance policies they have issued since2010. They have great pricing latitude to administered those policies. Thought you knew.

Hello again, tom:

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Yeah I've head her spin for 2 hrs now . She is blaming the insurance companies.

I'm watching too. I thought this was when you guys were gonna get a piece of her. Ain't happening, is it?? Looks like she's holding her own pretty well. In fact, it looks like the wingers are badgering her.

excon

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Originally Posted by talaniman

They are responsible for the grandfathered insurance policies they have issued since2010. They have great pricing latitude to administered those policies. Thought you knew.

There you go again, treating us like we're stupid. Enough if this "the buck stops there" nonsense," that grandfathering BS was another ruse from the beginning. I'd say it sucks for you that the media is finally exposing the lies but the regime is actively still lying about it today.