I'm on to your trick questions EX! All the above is the correct answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
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I'm on to your trick questions EX! All the above is the correct answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
You have to cross reference to the cited law in the guide.Quote:
QUOTE by speechlesstx;
Yes, I saw that compliance guide yesterday. That's not the law, that's the AG's opinion.
As you see they started the clock before they informed the public.That was the judge's ruling not mine.Quote:
I don't see that, where do I see that?
Judge rules Wisconsin violated open meetings law - Post Bulletin
I haven't seen the judges ruling yet. Your article reports they "failed to comply with the open meetings law, which requires at least two hours' notice to the public." The article I cited contests that.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
So, is she reversing her earlier finding that they did provide two hours' advance notice? "Oops, my bad," said Sumi.Quote:
Sumi, appointed to the bench by former Republican Gov. Tommy Thompson, earlier had put the law on hold, finding that legislators provided two hours' advance notice of the meeting, instead of the 24 hours required by state law.
Pathetic, Wisconsin libs protested Gov. Walker at a Special Olympics event.
Really?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
The MacIver Institute, who produced the video, bills itself as "The Free Market Voice For Wisconsin". But, they sure don't believe in FREEDOM, or the People's right to assemble. A REAL American doesn't pick between WHICH freedoms to support. He supports them ALL.
Besides, I thought you were going to show how those pathetic libs were knocking over the disabled kids when they ran their races... But, naaaa.. They were doing what every good American citizen should do.
What?? Demonstrations are only good if Tea Partiers do it?? DUDE!
excon
Update... Goveror Walker's law was upheld by the State Supreme Court.
Hello again, tom:Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
A temporary setback in a long game. Like your guys are going to repeal Obamney care, Wisconsonites will repeal Walkerf**k.
excon
Yeah already you are seeing school districts negotiating better deals with their public union employees saving the tax payers $$$ from property taxes. The better business environment will allow the state to recruit new businesses. In a year you won't hear a peep of protest from the people of the state.
You do know that Repubs are not alone in facing recalls? And in one recall race, the Democrat just blew it...Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
WI Dem to constituent: ‘I feel like calling her back and smacking her around’
Tea Parties don't spoil it for Special Olympians.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
You know this was a ridiculous idea that has spread far beyond Wisconsin, We had state Government employees rallying here against government attempts to change the state of play.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...616-1g4kl.html
Do the unions own your politicians too ?
Well you see Tom a little time ago we had a Labor, union dominated government chucked out on its ear and the new bloke, Liberal party with 16 years of chagrin under his belt has decided that the state budget needs some trimming and rather than for go the dividends from the power industry and lowering state travel fares he has opted for taking it out of the public sector wages. Basically he attacks those who have nowhere else to go, Nurses, Teachers, Police but mind you he has pegged politicians wage rises too. What he is doing is sacking the umpire and appointing himself industrial relations supremoQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
It becomes very difficult in a socialistally organised democracy when the government wants to tighten its belt, who suffers but the workers? There are lots of state owned enterprises and services to attack, this mob have also agreed to massive rises in local government taxes, electricity tarrifs and various other charges excepting travel fares which for some pecular reason they have decided to lower.
When you have socialized systems you needs absolute czars to administer them.
True but what we have is politicians who think politics will get the job done, They forget jobs are done by real people not statistics. This dill has had to back down because reduction in service delivery is not an option. When we elect a government we expect that they will deliver. So if you provide public transport it is on time, if public hospitals they are staffed, if Police, they are dealing with the social problems of crime and civil disorder, Courts are dealing with offenders, Jails are adequate to house offenders. We have a highly honed system, no local government involved in essential services other than water and sewerage. Need I go on, less is not more.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I like Pawlenty's conclusion... if you can find a good or service on Goggle ,then the government shouldn't be providing it.
It is all a matter of scale and tradition, Tom, when private enterprise doesn't step up to provide a service, often lack of capital, then if the service is essential, government must provide it until such times as the society matures. This can often result in partial privatisation during a transition phase. What we have found is that private enterprise will not take over enterprises which don't pay their way, i.e. Urban or Country rail networks, Electricity generation and distribution. Whilst some of this is changing there are very few investors taking the risk and those that have have been bitten or the assets have been given away at bargain prices.
It is easy to use over simplifications
Pawlenty's plan is flawed because it takes a premise that business can do it better, FOR PROFIT, and has no basis in FACT. Show me where the economy had sustained growth of 5%.
Sounds good, and admiral goal to pursue, but when it falls short say to half that, what do you do with the people that it affects? No matter what goods and services are provided, when the business plan fails to generate profits, then its people who pay the price. The question is who, or what fills that gap, while they grow another business?
Both Reagan and Clinton had growths at close to 5 % .The first couple years of the Reagan recovery was 7 percentQuote:
Show me where the economy had sustained growth of 5%.
You are right ,it is a laudable goal and more worthy of a President than tooting a horn over a growth rate that produces well short of 10,000 jobs... the “new normal ". Pawlenty calls this target aspirational and so it is .
Where he gets it right is where many here has also argued ;that the tax system(not just tinkering with rates ) needs overhaul.
He is also right that many government services could be better done by the private sector.
NJ Gov. Chris Christie has accomplished something amazing in a state as Democratic and unionized as his, he got the NJ Assembly and Senate to roll back government benefits and cut back collective bargaining rights.
New Jersey Lawmakers Approve Benefits Rollback for Work Force
Unsustainable? That's putting it mildly.Quote:
TRENTON — New Jersey lawmakers on Thursday approved a broad rollback of benefits for 750,000 government workers and retirees, the deepest cut in state and local costs in memory, in a major victory for
The Assembly passed the bill 46 to 32, as Republicans and a few Democrats defied raucous protests by thousands of people whose chants, vowing electoral revenge, shook the State House. Leaders in the State Senate said their chamber, which had already passed a slightly different version of the bill, would approve the Assembly version on Monday. Mr. Christie, a Republican, was expected to sign the measure into law quickly.
In a statement released after the vote, Mr. Christie said, “We are putting the people first and daring to touch the third rail of politics in order to bring reform to an unsustainable system.”
Study: To Fund Public Pensions, Taxes Must be Raised $1,400 Every Year for 30 Years
That's $1400 per household per year every year for 30 years. Time to do something you think?Quote:
U.S. state and local governments will need to raise taxes by $1,398 per household every year for the next 30 years if they are to fully fund their pension systems, a study released on Wednesday said.
The study, co-authored by Joshua Rauh of Northwestern University and Robert Novy-Marx of the University of Rochester, both of whom are finance professors, argues that states will have to cut services or raise taxes to make up funding gaps if promises made to municipal employees are to be honored.
Here we go again. When will you figure out that these cuts to middle class workers, be it health, services, or wages (that have been stagnant for decades), wouldn't be necessary if you rolled back taxes, and closed tax loopholes to the corporations who ain't making no jobs.
Will Higher Taxes Tank the Economy?
How many times do we have to go through this same thing again??
More corporate welfare, that's a great solution. Case in point, Romney talking about HIS being as unemployed as everybody else. That's gall!!
Tal, in both instances we're talking government employees, not your average middle class, private sector worker. I know I don't get 6 weeks off a year like my county deputy sheriff brother, or all the state holidays like my brother at TXDOT, or have so much sick leave and personal time built up I could take half the year off, nor can I retire after 15 or 20 years with full pension and benefits, all thanks to YOUR tax dollars.
Plus, though I'd prefer a FAIR or flat tax, I have no problem closing some corporate loopholes, internet sales tax loopholes and the like. But is that going to cover the $1400 per household per year for 30 years needed just to cover public employee benefits? I don't think so, and no matter how you look at it, things should never have gotten that out of hand.
P.S. I don't think I offered anything about more corporate welfare as a solution.
Its pretty simple, but you have to look at the way each state handles its budget short falls. Just as federally, lower taxes creates less revenue, and as you remember that's what was done in 2001, why, because there were no wars and no housing crisis, and no recession.
But when the crisis hit globally through the banks and wall street, the government eased the pain, to give states a buffer and a chance to adjust. (the stimulus) Just like the Federal budget deficit, a balanced approach, with shared sacrifice is what's needed, and most people are okay with that.
You only have to look at the way some states addressed this problem, to see that people just don't like additional tax cuts for corporations while they take cuts in benefits and services. So far this has only been in states with newly elected Republican governors. That's not a coincidence. Democratic governors have raised taxes, and made cuts also, and as yet you don't see the people congregating en mass on state capitals. Why is that? Tell me how Illinois closes its debt gaps, and Wisconsin has a march??
I can tell you why, because the states that had the balanced approach, (as you have said you are for), sat down at the table, and made an agreement for shared sacrifice, and the ones who cut corporate state taxes on the backs of workers, benefits, and services, in the name of balancing a budget,
And when you get a chance, ask that trooper brother what his union had to give up to get his so called perks. Its an untold story. When any worker takes benefits, its in lieu of WAGES, and its no secret the middle class wages haven't gone up in darn near 15 years, unlike private sector corporations, because other things have taken there place. Funny how when you negotiate, and not dictate and are fair how people go along with you.
The story in New Jersey is just getting started, just like in Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, and Ohio.Stay tuned before you make it a success story. State workers are no different than private sector workers, just ask a teacher, or a cop, or a firefighter. The staple of the neighborhoods they live in.
I will be honest, what pisses me off is the very ones who holler about THEIR rights, don't care about anyone else's, and that my friend, is the problem in a nutshell. Not you personally, mind you, but the ones who say how bad government is, and then make policies that take from the weak, and poor, and give to the rich.
I guess you can tell that I just don't like the style of some of my fellow Americans. Republican Governors particularly.
That's why they raise hell in some states and not in others.
The reason they're raising hell is the unions are stirring sh*t up.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
That's what happens when you disrespect a group, and vilify them. You'd be pissed too wouldn't you?? Its not their fault somebody can't count, or somebody can, and robbed ALL of us. Follow the money, it didn't trickle down, so who stopped it?
And these guys are Governors, not dictators. The fire guy, or the teacher didn't rip us off.
It may not be their fault, but the question is how did it ever get this bad? There were a lot of governors and legislators on both sides letting it get that bad for a long time, and it can't continue, period.
Speaking of disrespecting a group, that's why the Tea Party hit a nerve. And what happened? The left, from the president down, disrespected them even more and the community organize in chief himself was at the forefront of stirring sh*t up with his union cohorts at Tea Party rallies. How'd that work out for them?
Tea party people are angry, and riled up, plenty of emotions for sure, but the money is from the top, and so are the policies. Their anger is subverted, and misdirected.
I would be wary of anyone who followed the sick logic of Rush Limbaugh, and Karl Rove, and we are a long way from getting all the FACTS. November 2012!!
Tal, I went to a Tea Party once and Rush and Karl were nowhere to be found. Just a bunch of normal citizens fed up with government.
That's not where the money comes from, follow the money.
On both sides. Obama spent the last few years demonizing Wall Street, now he's sucking up to them for money.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Ahhh taxes to the progressive is like breating air . They can't get enough of it. The truth is that revenues are fine. They are close to 20 % of the GDP The Federal Government has plenty revenues. What they have however is an addiction to spending.. The Obots have spending at 24% of GDP . Reduce the spending down to 2008 levels and you would soon see balanced budgets and reductions in the deficit .Quote:
Just as federally, lower taxes creates less revenue,\
Even states like Kalifornia are beginning to understand that . The state legislature is learning their lesson the hard way.
The people decided if they submitted a fantasy budget that the clowns in the state house would not get paid for their efforts. Guess what... they submitted a fantasy budget anyway and now their wallets are a bit lighter today.
State budgets, and Federal budgets are TWO different things entirely. This recession is about money not circulating, crucial for any economy, nor is it trickling down. Be one thing if corporations were paying something, but between off shore accounts, outsourcing American jobs, and smart tax lawyers, the economy has been drained of any kind of circulation, because there is nothing to circulate. This is a man made problem, and not a coincidence. Too much spending? Perhaps, you can trim some fat, and increase some revenues by giving money away to corporations who don't need it, make Wall Street do what its supposed to do, INVEST, to circulate some money, and make obstructionist REPUBLICAN do there job and legislate, instead of keeping us down so they can gain POWER again.
If the American people say raise taxes on the rich, DO IT!! Then cut some spending rationally. What more evidence do you need when the Dem's agree to cut 2 trillion freaking dollars, and the repubs can't raise a single tax, or close loopholes, or rework the tax structure.
I know you guys want to shrink Government, and do as you please, but you are really good at not SHARING the country with those who don't agree.
Still waiting for those jobs you promised by the way. That's what you won 2010 with, so deliver.
Indeed it is :Quote:
This is a man made problem,
TARP ;Stimulus ,Dodd Frank , Fed easy money ,and Obamacare. Obama complains that corporations were forced to go the efficiency route ;but it's his failed pump priming policies that brought that on.
BTW ;it won't win any points with me railing against Wall Street. I was the one here who said let the markets do their punishing when the rest of the country panicked about some banks on the verge of collapse. I to this day do not believe in "too big to fail" .
Getting 1/2 of Congress will not get it done... but it's a good start. Still need to retake the Senate and the Presidency. Biden and co. are stonewalling on the debt ceiling and budget negotiations ,and the compliant press has already picked up the mantle of the Shumer talking point that the Republicans are at fault. The American people understand that jobs will come when some fiscal sanity returns to Washington, and some people running the country who understand the you need to create a business friendly environment, instead of treating business as a piñata for rhetorical demagoguery,Quote:
Still waiting for those jobs you promised by the way. That's what you won 2010 with, so deliver
I do fault repubs, for the rhetoric and the stalling tactics, the blatant obstruction, the power grabs, and thinks part of the country lives at the whim of the other. I blame repubs for not negotiating, and COMPROMISING for solutions. They way I see it, I survived repubs presidents, and congresses, and its your turn to survive democrats. Yeah it's a vicious cycle ain't it.
Half the American people know that giving ALL the money to corporations doesn't make jobs. Your half doesn't seem to know that. Half the people know that giving ALL the money to corporations who have been sending jobs overseas, for decades, are not to be trusted, and doesn't make sense.Quote:
The American people understand that jobs will come when some fiscal sanity returns to Washington,
If them making record profits without making jobs, isn't friendly enough, WHAT IS??Quote:
and some people running the country who understand the you need to create a business friendly environment,
Its not rhetoric, its fact, just look at the profits and the shrinking middle class, and what the repubs are helping them do to America. Not just the Dem half, but the repub half.Quote:
instead of treating business as a piñata for rhetorical demagoguery,
What you think all the struggling masses are DEMOCRATS??
Yep, you survived the Bush years when the Democrats were proud to stall and obstruct. I'm sure I'll survive the Obama years through all his power grabs and Democrats refusal to compromise, such as the Obamacare legislation that was rammed through against public opinion while Republicans were locked out of discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
P.S. The Democrats own this economy, how's it going?
Hello again, Steve:Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
How IS it going?? Well, that depends on how you define "is".
I say, given that we were already OVER the cliff and headed straight down, that Obama saved us from hitting bottom. No, we have NOT yet been pulled all the way back up. But, we DIDN'T hit bottom...
You sound like a guy who stops hitting himself in the head with a hammer and wonders where he got all those marks.
excon
Better than it was when Bush left.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Hello again,
Nahhh... It ain't over yet. I think we might see a READJUSTMENT in the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Seems as though the recently re-elected Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice David Prosser attempted to strangle liberal Justice Ann Walsh Bradley during an argument last week. The cops are investigating.
excon
There's more than one side to that story.
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