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Originally Posted by talaniman

Do you need your guns to get to the next election? Of course not. That has nothing to do with the Bundy case either.

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Do you need to take them away or oppress any of our other rights to get to the next election? As I said, we're not going to bend over and take it in the while you destroy our rights any more than I would expect you to. Get over it, that's America and defending our county from domestic enemies, including our own government IS patriotic.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

defending our county from ... our own government IS patriotic.

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What would possibly cause anyone to go after our government with guns? Vote, don't shoot. And -- can't wait to see who has the better firepower and who wins.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Do you need to take them away or oppress any of our other rights to get to the next election? As I said, we're not going to bend over and take it in the while you destroy our rights any more than I would expect you to. Get over it, that's America and defending our county from domestic enemies, including our own government IS patriotic.

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what sort of twisted notion is this that insurrection is patriotic. look at the facts, this isn't government oppression, it is a commercial transaction where one party has breached the contract and the government, being the other party,,has the right of redress. It is incidential to the debate that the government (BLM) is one of the parties. This is not WACO although it seems to be a little WACHO.

That your nation was founded in insurrection doesn't justify any civilian action here

Protecting a law breaker isn't patriotic. And no guns have been taken away. Matter of fact gun sales seem to be soaring.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Protecting a law breaker isn't patriotic. And no guns have been taken away. Matter of fact gun sales seem to be soaring.

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Thank the ramapnt disgust of Obama, and the complete lack of trust of anyone in his administration for that... people feel the need to protect themselves against the criminal element Obama apparently embraces while he screws the productive part of society... and protect themselves from a government that no longer represnts their best interests.

and there you have the foolishness of this debate, predicated in false information

Nothing false in Obamas class warfare... and race baiting. Its well known in this country. Everything he does is one or the other....some things are both.

really how often does he use the words right wing, red neck, WASP, what is racist is your insistence that since he is black he must be racist, or that since he has concern for the poor or underpriviliged he must be racist, but don't worry three and a little more years from now, you will be shuck of this president who dared to be black. If he were not black the question of racism would not come up

Since this thread has gone off the wall, I would like to make a prediction. " There will be a civil war in this country, and the "Brown Shirt Civilian Army" that Obama wants to form that will be as well equipt as our military will be manned by the 68,000 criminals that Holder is freeing". So much for land grabs.

absolute paranoia

Clete it is a state's power issue. The Feds own over 80% of the land in the state of Nevada . If transferred ,it would benefit the state to the tune of $114 million a year according to the Nevada Public Land Management Task Force .Bundy is right in saying it is the state that should own the land and collect any grazing fees .
Tal says that the other ranchers in the area pay the fees. He should say PAID the fees ,because the BLM used the fees to drive the other ranchers off the land . This is NOT a matter of Bundy being some kind of scoff-law . He is trying to protect his historic grazing rights on the land .
This is similar to another case in the same area. Raymond Yowell, an 84 year-old Shoshone chief, had his herd seized by BLM .They auctioned off his cattle and then sent him an additional bill for $180,000;which they collect by garnishing his Social Security check. He also had historic grazing rights that were bolstered by a treaty the government signed with his tribe (the Treaty of Ruby Valley of 1863). His cattle were on reservation lands . But SCOTUS decided that the government had the power to manage the reservation lands . BLM does not like cattle grazing , so they used the bs endangered desert tortoise canard on him. Yes he also has lost in court ;but in his case ,the 9th Circus Court of Appeals reversed the lower court's decision. He is now representing himself in SCOTUS. He has also sued the BLM and the Treasury Department for $30 million.
Nevada tribal leader, 81, sues BLM for $30M | Reznet News

Tom the government owns the land, whether they should or not or whether the have acted unlawfully you have courts. As you have demonstrated one plaintiff is using the courts why the other engages in cowboy macho crap

and the one using the courts had his cattle seized and auctioned off and the government is stealing money from his retirement . Does the government wait for courts before acting ?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Protecting a law breaker isn't patriotic.

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Says everyone who cheered those filthy, violent, private property destroying occupier squatters.

I don't cheer lawlessness

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Tom the government owns the land, whether they should or not or whether the have acted unlawfully you have courts. As you have demonstrated one plaintiff is using the courts why the other engages in cowboy macho crap

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What your missing is that it is very dangerous for the fox to be guarding the hen house. Of course the federal government is going to try to rule in its own favor. The largest problem being faced right now is the the government walked out on court proceedings when they were losing and moved the ball to the court that had their back. That is how we got to be where we are at today.

Another thing that you keep missing is that the second amendment prevents another Nazi Germany situation from forming in this country. That is why every citizen needs to be vigilant when it comes to government powers.

The increase in government heavy handedness and the lack of regaurd to rights has been increasing. Drones are overhead and police forces are arming up as only the military used to be. There are laws that prevent the military in domestic situations and now they are trying to make an end around it. That ia why so many are being watchful of this government.

you have a military that can be controlled by a state government, this is where you need to be very carefull. The nazi situation is very unlikely to arise in your country, not because you are armed, but because you don't think in absolutes, and you have never lost a war and degenerated into poverty. however continue to improverish your citizens and we will see

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Originally Posted by paraclete

you have never lost a war and degenerated into poverty.

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Au contraire. A goodly portion of this continent did precisely that, and were kept in poverty by the very same political party that's in power here right now.

well yes but I'm referring to an external war, not something that is self inflicted. The nazi arose out a loss of a war and the stringent reparations which reduced Germany and created a resentment the nazi could turn to advantage. There was noone looking after their poor. the population you were referring to were a few individuals of privilege amid a population of poor

maybe armed Federal agents should be flexing their muscle here instead .
N4T Investigators: Rogue Mexican Army troops crossing the line | KVOA.com | Tucson, Arizona