Ask Me Help Desk - Parental rights

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skell

It strikes me as a little absurd that you guys get so worked up about a bit of Elton John, yet don't seem too worried about the scores of innocent kids that get gunned down dead at schools across your country each year. But that's a whole other issue i know.

I suppose THOSE parents had the right to decide which morals to impart to their kids, too? The parents of the killers, I mean.

Maybe if the school had been allowed to teach at least a FEW morals (like---not killing, or not bullying), then those school shootings wouldn't have happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

I suppose THOSE parents had the right to decide which morals to impart to their kids, too? The parents of the killers, I mean.

Maybe if the school had been allowed to teach at least a FEW morals (like---not killing, or not bullying), then those school shootings wouldn't have happened.

I agree completely. I think there is more to school than reading, writing and arithmetic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skell

It strikes me as a little absurd that you guys get so worked up about a bit of Elton John, yet don't seem too worried about the scores of innocent kids that get gunned down dead at schools across your country each year. But that's a whole other issue i know.

Who's worked up over Elton John? He was always one of my favorite artists. He wasn't the focus of the anger, it was parents "they were not consulted over the content of the assembly" aimed at 5 year olds. Come on Skell, 5year olds! Why do they need to discuss homosexuality at school? Seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

I suppose THOSE parents had the right to decide which morals to impart to their kids, too? The parents of the killers, I mean.

Maybe if the school had been allowed to teach at least a FEW morals (like---not killing, or not bullying), then those school shootings wouldn't have happened.

We have really digressed if we're now blaming the parents of a few crazed individuals to justify teaching morals at school. Perhaps if schools weren't so worried about teaching kids about queers they might notice something dreadfully wrong with a disturbed or extremist kid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Who's worked up over Elton John? He was always one of my favorite artists. He wasn't the focus of the anger, it was parents "they were not consulted over the content of the assembly" aimed at 5 year olds. Come on Skell, 5year olds! Why do they need to discuss homosexuality at school? Seriously.

Yes I agree. 5 is too young.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

[
Refer to my post on common sense.

What about this then. "These marriages can be as successful as, or as crummy as any hetero marriage because when it come down to it, it is the level of the maturity, rationale, earnestness, character, commitment, degree of love and selflessness of the two people involved. Do you argue that these traits only come into play with one sex or the other?

Just because hetero marriage is not always perfect does not indicate that an alternative is better, or equal, or the same or as valid as.

As ET mentioned what you state is hard to quantify in any marriage or relationship. Heck most dogs are more faithful, loyal, devoted than spouses :p

The bigger question is:

Civilizations have always been based on hetero marriage, imperfect as that may be. Show me a civiliztion in which the primary / majority family unit is homo parents with children. :confused::confused:

It can be argued with historical facts that polygamous marriage is certainly more legitimite than homo marriage. Can you imagine the uproar if teachers taught children that polygamy is "the same" as monygamous marriage?:rolleyes:

G&P

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

If this country still held to it's religious values, we would need(????) as many police or prisons as we have today. people would understand right from wrong and make decisions based on those values.

I lived back then. There was crime and incest and theft and robbery and murder, but there were fewer people, communication was very slow, and people pulled down the shades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skell

Yes I agree. 5 is too young.

I knew you were a good man.

Quote:

It strikes me as a little absurd that you guys get so worked up about a bit of Elton John, yet don't seem too worried about the scores of innocent kids that get gunned down dead at schools across your country each year. But that's a whole other issue i know

Indeed it is a whole other issue . But I can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time so I do have concerns about the two unrelated issues . This linkage is a strawman because it presumes a false premise .

In fact it would not concern me that our children learn from the teacher that it is wrong for them to gun down their fellow students. I don't know anyone who would object. But , there are many of us who object to values we don't subscribe to being force fed to our children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

In fact it would not concern me that our children learn from the teacher that it is wrong for them to gun down their fellow students.

Do you think that would change the number of children gunning down children?

Perhaps not .There are not that many incidents to begin with .

Not sure about that: Time Line of Worldwide School Shootings — Infoplease.com
US is the worst offender by far.

doesn't matter that the US has more... there are still not that many. If those are all the incidents world wide then the US is averaging a little over 3 per year.

Again ;do I think it is OK for teachers to teach children it is not OK to gun down fellow students ? Yes . Perhaps it would lower the incidents but I doubt it .
I still maintain it is an irrelevant comparison to the issue of teaching values that many if not most of the parents oppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

US is the worst offender by far.

The U.S. is not the "worst offender." The U.S. is not going around gunning down our students.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

The U.S. is not the "worst offender."

Yes it is - look at the chart again, count how many incidents are in the US versus other countries.

If you want to go back to "traditional family values", I'm going to call you a hypocrite every time you're against teaching kids that homosexuality happens, but don't stand up and fight against divorce and teenagers becoming single parents.

If you want to go back to the way things were in the 50s, you're going to have to make people either get married (for LIFE! No Divorce!) when they get "in trouble" and going to have to ostracize the single parent from polite society when they do NOT get married, so that the child is given up for adoption and raised by TWO married parents.

Good luck with that.

I agree that parents should have been told about the content, and that the way that kids were told about this--especially the 5 year olds--was wrong. However, I don't agree that schools cannot teach that bullying and name calling is bad--regardless their age. If parents didn't want their kids to be told about homosexual issues, they should make sure that they and their friends are never running around calling someone "gay", or calling something they don't like "gay"---and yes, I've heard it out of a 5 year old's mouth.

The parents should have been talked to FIRST, though, and given the option to NOT have their child involved in the assembly. Those kids would still be held to the same rules, though---so those parents better be willing to talk about how calling someone "gay" is not an option at school.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yes it is - look at the chart again, count how many incidents are in the US versus other countries.

No, you don't get it. Individuals are the offenders - the "U.S." is not the "worst offender."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Synnen

If you want to go back to "traditional family values", I'm going to...

If you want to go back to the way things were in the 50s, you're going to have to...

going to have to...

they should make sure that they and their friends are never...

those parents better be willing...

is not an option at school.

Thanks for demonstrating my point Synnen. As a parent I don't HAVE to, MAKE SURE, SHOULD or BE WILLING to do anything you say regardless of what you're GOING TO do, and that is not an option.

Actually, as a parent there are PLENTY of things that you HAVE to, MAKE SURE, SHOULD, and BE WILLING to do, by law:

1. Feed your child.
2. Make sure your child gets an education, whether that's through public schools, private schools, or home schools.
3. Provide adequate shelter for your child.
4. Provide medical assistance as needed---as in vaccinations, getting broken bones set, having an appendix taken out when it is inflamed, etc.

Kids have been lost to the state because parents felt that they did not HAVE TO or BE WILLING to do things for their children---for the child's well-being.

So... as a parent there are PLENTY of things you HAVE TO do. It's just where exactly the line is on what you do and do not HAVE to do that's being debated here. I mean, do you HAVE TO make your child wear a seat belt? By LAW, yes you do. Do all parents do this? Nope. So... where is the line drawn as far as who determines what is best for the child? I agree that most of the time it should be the parent, but laws fill in the gaps, in the best interest of children, for those parents that SUCK at parenting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

No, you don't get it. Individuals are the offenders - the "U.S." is not the "worst offender."

Hair splitting again. Gets tiresome. Individuals in and of the US, is that better?