I see a great difficulty in a system that has two court systems, and uses ordinary politicians in a judicial capacity
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I see a great difficulty in a system that has two court systems, and uses ordinary politicians in a judicial capacity
What's to be discreet about already public information? Try to focus your outrage on Team O leaking classified info for political gain and not what anyone can read in the NY Times weeks before the hearing.Quote:
That's the problem with these witch hunts to exploit tragedies in public in the name of investigations.
I guess discreet never crossed any ones minds?
LOL, no outrage on my part since everyone has a right to opinions, outrageous or NOT!
So this is how we support our guys in the field, denying their requests for help and telling the guys on the ground to "stand down" while under terrorist attack?
That Tyrone Woods that ignored orders and to rescue his comrades? His father told Glenn Beck that Hillary Clinton vowed to him to get the guy responsible for the infamous film we now know was not at the heart of the attack on Benghazi. “We will make sure that the person who made that film is arrested and prosecuted,” said Clinton.Quote:
Fox News has learned from sources who were on the ground in Benghazi that an urgent request from the CIA annex for military back-up during the attack on the U.S. consulate and subsequent attack several hours later was denied by U.S. officials -- who also told the CIA operators twice to "stand down" rather than help the ambassador's team when shots were heard at approximately 9:40 p.m. in Benghazi on Sept. 11.
Former Navy SEAL Tyrone Woods was part of a small team who was at the CIA annex about a mile from the U.S. consulate where Ambassador Chris Stevens and his team came under attack. When he and others heard the shots fired, they informed their higher-ups at the annex to tell them what they were hearing and requested permission to go to the consulate and help out. They were told to "stand down," according to sources familiar with the exchange. Soon after, they were again told to "stand down."
Woods and at least two others ignored those orders and made their way to the consulate which at that point was on fire. Shots were exchanged. The rescue team from the CIA annex evacuated those who remained at the consulate and Sean Smith, who had been killed in the initial attack. They could not find the ambassador and returned to the CIA annex at about midnight.
At that point, they called again for military support and help because they were taking fire at the CIA safe house, or annex. The request was denied. There were no communications problems at the annex, according those present at the compound. The team was in constant radio contact with their headquarters. In fact, at least one member of the team was on the roof of the annex manning a heavy machine gun when mortars were fired at the CIA compound. The security officer had a laser on the target that was firing and repeatedly requested back-up support from a Spectre gunship, which is commonly used by U.S. Special Operations forces to provide support to Special Operations teams on the ground involved in intense firefights. The fighting at the CIA annex went on for more than four hours -- enough time for any planes based in Sigonella Air base, just 480 miles away, to arrive. Fox News has also learned that two separate Tier One Special operations forces were told to wait, among them Delta Force operators.
Not "we will get those who killed your son," we'll get the filmmaker. And by golly they did, a few weeks after she ran ads apologizing for the film in Pakistan, the feds arrested the guy.
I can only imagine if this had happened on Bush's watch...
Hello again, Steve:
Yawnnnn...
Wake me up when Glenn Beck or the crack FOX News team reveals the coverup that Obama committed. If you're just now reporting that we were attacked by terrorists, Duhh.. Obama said so the next day. If you're reporting that mistakes were made, double duhh.
What ARE you trying to say?
excon
Ah, are you saying when you served you would have been OK with your calls for help going unanswered and doing nothing while your buddies died? Are you saying it's more important to get the film maker, guilty of exercising his rights, than the terrorists?
What are YOU Saying?
Textbook case of setting up strawman arguments - those that you said you hate so much.Quote:
Ah, are you saying when you served you would have been OK with your calls for help going unanswered and doing nothing while your buddies died? Are you saying it's more important to get the film maker, guilty of exercising his rights, than the terrorists?
Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote:
is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position
Hello again, Steve:
I'm saying that in the heat of battle, mistakes are made. I'm reminded of Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer. He wrote a book so people would know the story of his brothers in arms who didn't survive the ambush in Kunar Province, Afghanistan.Quote:
What are YOU Saying?
He called for backup. It was ignored. Lots of his brothers died. It was bad. It happened under Bush. LOTS of those things happened under Bush. That's WHY we lost the war.
The KEY word above is LOST. That means we're STILL at war and mistakes are STILL going to happen.. No, I don't like it..
But, this started as some big coverup that Obama was perpetrating on the American public. He was LYING about something.. But, you (and FOX) found NO coverup. You found NO lies. You just found some people who died in battle and you want to make it the presidents fault. Well, it DIDN'T work.
Excon
Ex, you're about the only one who can't see the coverup.
Nope, neither of those contain what you do: put words in people's mouths then tell them how stupid they are to think that. It's an intellectually dishonest approach to debating and usually used by someone who has no other material. Why do you do that when you hate those types os positions so much?Quote:
Actually I asked questions. This is a strawman. This is a strawman. Learn the difference.
Hello again, Steve:
What did he cover up, and what benefit would it have given him if he didn't get caught by your crack news team?
The only benefit I could possibly see, is that Obama wanted to maintain the fiction that he SOLVED the Middle East, like you guys think he did. That would be true, of course, if he had said anything like that, or intimated anything like that. Maybe he did and I missed it. I don't know. But, I'm happy to hear what you think it was.
excon
The right is famous for seeing cover ups and conspiracies in anything. That's why they have to investigate everything, but they hate lawyers. The flaw is always they do it themselves, cheap, ain't they? Loud, and cheap.
Dude, familiarize yourself with this word before throwing stones.Quote:
Nope, neither of those contain what you do: put words in people's mouths then tell them how stupid they are to think that. It's an intellectually dishonest approach to debating and usually used by someone who has no other material. Why do you do that when you hate those types os positions so much?
Newsweek? CBS? Daily Beast? CNN? Jon Stewart? WaPo? You do know this goes deeper than Fox News don't you? To answer your questions, review the thread. Been there, done that.Quote:
What did he cover up, and what benefit would it have given him if he didn't get caught by your crack news team?
Yep, that's why I was calling you out on your hypocrisy.Quote:
Dude, familiarize yourself with this word before throwing stones.
All I have to say to the way this debate is going is are you guys dillusional or What?
OK I'll go out on a limb and say what is being covered up. The Benghazi mission (the adm. Never calls it a consulate ) was there to recruit and arm anti-Assad jihadists who then infiltrate into Syria through Turkey. That is the reason why the Adm. Stuck with the phoney video story for so long ,even as the coverup was unravelling before their eyes. The world press has already reported on this .Just waiting for the US press to catch up .
Hello again, tom:
That's what you call a coverup?? Really?? Sounds like they were just keeping state secrets. You DO think we should do that, don't you? I guess not if it's Obama...
You guys are so transparent..
excon
I tend to agree Tom, there was more than just ambassador stuff going on, and under those circumstances I wouldn't admit to any covert stuff either. What the CIA is supposed to give daily briefings of operations to the press?
I didn't want to raise that possibility but whenever the CIA is in the area something secret IS going on. I wouldn't tell a big mouth like Issa a darn thing either.
Yeah and I guess Fast and Furious was a state secret too. Arming AQ jihadist is not a policy that an administration that has a campaign slogan that claims AQ is on the ropes would want revealed right before an election... right ? Ex ,why is a video maker still in jail ? Is he collateral damage for the coverup ?
Hello again, tom:
Oh, now they're Al Qaida jihadists... Obama was arming the ENEMY? Really? Dude!Quote:
The Benghazi mission (the adm. Never calls it a consulate ) was there to recruit and arm anti-Assad jihadists who then infiltrate into Syria through Turkey.
Yawnnn... Let me know when you get the coverup story right.
Excon
We don't know what the state secret is, but we do know the one of the guys who made the video violated his parole by using the Internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Never seen such a high profile 'parole violation ' before . How convenient ! So he is tossed into jail for 6 weeks ; and his hearing is conveniently after the election .
Oh I've got that part of the story right . There is only one more part of it to tie together .Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I know newspaper endorsements may not matter, but this one from a Las Vegas paper doesn't mince words...
Ouch.Quote:
Benghazi blunder: Obama unworthy commander-in-chief
U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens and three other Americans died in a well-planned military assault on their diplomatic mission in Benghazi seven weeks ago, the anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. So why are details surfacing, piecemeal, only now?
The Obama administration sat by doing nothing for seven hours that night, ignoring calls to dispatch help from our bases in Italy, less than two hours away. It has spent the past seven weeks stretching the story out, engaging in misdirection and deception involving supposed indigenous outrage over an obscure anti-Muslim video, confident that with the aid of a docile press corps this infamous climax to four years of misguided foreign policy can be swept under the rug, at least until after Tuesday's election.
Charles Woods, father of former Navy SEAL and Henderson resident Tyrone Woods, 41, says his son died slumped over his machine gun after he and fellow ex-SEAL Glen Doherty - not the two locals who were the only bodyguards Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the Obama administration would authorize - held off the enemy for seven hours.
The Obama administration was warned. They received an embassy cable June 25 expressing concern over rising Islamic extremism in Benghazi, noting the black flag of al-Qaida "has been spotted several times flying over government buildings and training facilities." The Obama administration removed a well-armed, 16-member security detail from Libya in August, The Wall Street Journal reported last month, replacing it with a couple of locals. Mr. Stevens sent a cable Aug. 2 requesting 11 additional body guards, noting "Host nation security support is lacking and cannot be depended on," reports Peter Ferrara at Forbes.com. But these requests were denied, officials testified before the House Oversight Committee earlier this month.
Based on documents released by the committee, on the day of the attack the Pentagon dispatched a drone with a video camera so everyone in Washington could see what was happening in real time. The drone documented no crowds protesting any video. But around 4 p.m. Washington received an email from the Benghazi mission saying it was under a military-style attack. The White House, the Pentagon, the State Department and the CIA were able to watch the live video feed. An email sent later that day reported "Ansar al-Sharia claims responsibility for Benghazi attack."
Not only did the White House do nothing, there are now reports that a counterterrorism team ready to launch a rescue mission was ordered to stand down.
The official explanation for the inadequate security? This administration didn't want to "offend the sensibilities" of the new radical Islamic regime which American and British arms had so recently helped install in Libya.
The official explanation for why Obama administration officials watched the attack unfold for seven hours, refusing repeated requests to send the air support and relief forces that sat less than two hours away in Italy? Silence.
An open discussion of these issues, of course, would lead to difficult questions about the wisdom of underwriting and celebrating the so-called Arab Spring revolts in the first place. While the removal of tyrants can be laudable, the results show a disturbing pattern of merely installing new tyrannies - theocracies of medieval mullahs who immediately start savaging the rights of women (including the basic right to education) and who are openly hostile to American interests.
When Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney promptly criticized the security failures in Benghazi, the White House and its lapdog media jumped all over him for another "gaffe," for speaking out too promptly and too strongly. Prompt and strong action from the White House on Sept. 11 might have saved American lives, as well as America's reputation as a nation not to be messed with. Weakness and dithering and flying to Las Vegas the next day for celebrity fund-raising parties are somehow better?
This administration is an embarrassment on foreign policy and incompetent at best on the economy - though a more careful analysis shows what can only be a perverse and willful attempt to destroy our prosperity. Back in January 2008, Barack Obama told the editorial board of the San Francisco Chronicle that under his cap-and-trade plan, "If somebody wants to build a coal-fired power plant, they can. It's just that it will bankrupt them." He added, "Under my plan ... electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket." It was also in 2008 that Mr. Obama's future Energy Secretary, Steven Chu, famously said it would be necessary to "figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe" - $9 a gallon.
Yet the president now claims he's in favor of oil development and pipelines, taking credit for increased oil production on private lands where he's powerless to block it, after he halted the Keystone XL Pipeline and oversaw a 50 percent reduction in oil leases on public lands.
These behaviors go far beyond "spin." They amount to a pack of lies. To return to office a narcissistic amateur who seeks to ride this nation's economy and international esteem to oblivion, like Slim Pickens riding the nuclear bomb to its target at the end of the movie "Dr. Strangelove," would be disastrous.
Candidate Obama said if he couldn't fix the economy in four years, his would be a one-term presidency.
Mitt Romney is moral, capable and responsible man. Just this once, it's time to hold Barack Obama to his word. Maybe we can all do something about that, come Tuesday.
Well, those Nevadans are probably stupid using your logic.
If you say so.
Obama will win Nevada . He will lose reelection. Nevada isn't in play really despite it's swing state status . What is surprising is that Romney is confident enough in PA. that he is still campaigning there forcing the President to expend resources in a state he should win slam dunk.
The President's campaign stops planned for this weekend is revealing in that he is campaigning in states he should've locked up already .
That being said ;the Benghazi growing controversy is the big hush by the compliant press and won't factor in this election in a big way. But there is still plenty of 'spainin ' to do .
Curious minds want to know:
Who were the attackers? Who led them?
Where did they go after the assault on the residence at approximately 9:30 pm Local Time. Where did they go after the assault on the CIA annex at approximately 2-4 AM local time?
What connection to the attackers is Ansar al Shariah?
What connection, if any, is the "Libyan Brigade" now serving in Syria for the Turkish Military Intelligence.
Who handled security for the residence; who handled security for the annex?
What does the video from the surveillance cameras at the residence compound and at the annex show ?
What of the report that there was a CIA drone overhead that retired and was then replaced by a second CIA drone(possibly armed ,possibly not )?
What of the report of an advance reaction team that was available from outside of Libya from EUROCOM?
What of the report that the President and SecDef Panetta were together in the White House Situation Room around 5 pm (11 pm Benghazi team) and were able to watch the assault or its aftermath in real time?
What of the report that AFRICOM General Ham was at the Pentagon that day?
What of the report that General Dempsey told General Ham to stand down the CIF team? What of the report that Ham was determined to defy orders and was in some way restrained by his 2nd in command ?
What of the report that SecDef Panetta ordered a special operations unit to prepare to deploy from the US? What decisions did the President make before he left on his Vegas junket ?
What of the report that the Benghazi CIA station was directed out of the White House by Counterterror Czar John Brennan ;simular to when Admiral John Poindexter and Ollie North ran the IranContra operation out of the White House?
Was Ambassador Chris Stevens part of the operation?
Why was the Turkish ambassador meeting with Ambassador Stevens just prior to the attack?
What is the relationship between the President and President Erdogan of Turkey that the two countries share knowledge and connection with Libyan mercenaries associated with Jihadist/Islamist elements in Cyrenaica?
What does Libya get for contributing mercenaries to the "Free Syrian Army".
Why did SecState Evita Clinton make comments about the FSA composition which makes it appear that the US has more than a casual interest in the outcome ?
Clinton calls for overhaul of Syrian opposition - Yahoo! News
Doesn't it look like the type of regime change tactics that used to get the Dems panties in a knot in the 1980s ?
A lot of questions there Tom but are you entitled to know any of it, leave it to a judicial process
Yes a lot of questions that need answering with facts and NOT conspiracy theories, or assumptions based on ideology. Funny how you have questioned so hard what's been done and spent the last year not questioning what the new guy WILL do.
So far he has said he will screw the lazy 47%, get a bigger stick and holler louder, and take MO 'MONEY from the economy. No questions from you guys.
The press would've been on Bush like white on rice over this . The only thing missing from this was a 'Mission Accomplished' banner during the Dem Convention . My questions for the most part are rhetorical since most of them have been answered by anyone willing to pay attention and not live in the Obama echo chamber .
Tom I think the difference between Obama and Bush was Obama knows when to hang out the sign, Romney is claiming victory already
Hello again,
There was a burglary. The president was involved. He didn't want anybody to know, so he covered it up. We EVENTUALLY discovered his CONNECTION to the burglary, and the coverup became obvious.
The POINT is that you CAN'T declare a coverup unless you KNOW WHAT was covered up. I've asked innumerable times on this thread exactly WHAT Obama is accused of covering up. My requests were met with silence.. Oh, tom made some outrageous accusation that we were arming Al Quaida, and they wanted THAT covered up.. But, to suggest that the DRONE president, the kill Ben Laden president, would arm our enemies is OFFENSIVE, and bears NO resemblance to reality...
WITHOUT an answer, of course, the charge that he covered up something is specious. In other words, the Republicans are trying to make hay, where there's NONE to make... But, Romney is LOSING, so they got to DO something..
This post was prompted by a FOX News headline this morning, stating, "The COVERUP continues". So, I watched. I was HOPING that the crack news team at FOX would reveal exactly WHAT it was, that was being covered up. Alas, and alack, they did not.
So, IF I were a low information voter, I'd KNOW Obama covered up something, even IF I had NO clue what it was. And, that's because the public relations arm of the Republican party, FOX, told me. The fact that a coverup simply cannot be alluded to, WITHOUT knowing what was covered up, is LOST on FOX. They just like the WORDS. And the low information voters suck them up.
excon
My only question is why would jihadists we were arming turn on us .Best guess is that there was a betrayal ;or less likely ,it was jihadists loyal to Syria and Iran . The rest of what I posted is fact .
This would be Iran /Contra all over if it wasn't a fact that there is no law against the policy the President adopted . It is actually more familiar with us arming Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980s . Except the difference of course is that the Reagan Adm was very open about it's policy towards the Russian invasion of Afghanistan and that we were going to send arms to the opposition .
So why would the President rush to cover it up ? Oh I think tomorrow's election was a big enough reason.
Tom have you never heard of opportunism, of being used. Surely you are no so niaive as to believe tha Muslims in general, and jihadists in particular, actually share your political aspirations. You keep harking back to the past as if looking for some empiric victory to prove a point. This is now, circumstances are different in the middle east. There is no glory there, just death lurking. In Syria the rebels will take what ever help you give them, because if you don't help no one will, the same goes for Iran, but you backed the wrong horse when you deposed Saddam, you could have brought him in from the cold in the same way you did Gaddafi. Both are dead now and you don't have democracy in either place. You don't learn, but Obama has so far kept you out of it and this has to be a good thing
The President should give a hat tip to CBS 60 Minutes ,who withheld from the public his waffling comments about Benghazi to Steve Kroft which they had edited from the original broadcast. Had they been doing their journalistic job they would've released them immediately after the 2nd debate when the Romney challenge to the President was fresh instead of waiting until everyone was preoccupied with the hurricane in the final weekend before the election.
I'm sure Romney had nothing at all to do with this election eh Tom? :D You're so bitter we can feel it from here.
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