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For starters, public schools don't teach any of those things and you are exaggerating and misrepresenting what they teach. I attended PTA meetings for years and worked with to many teachers to let you bad mouth public schools with such crap. Takes a community to start making a school a GOOD school.

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They most assuredly do. Those situations stay in the news. The one linked below is just a sample and it's from 07.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ma...rmal-this-fall

You worked with the PTA??? I worked IN THE SCHOOLS. And, as I said, some are good, and some are not good.

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The state administers the schools. You got a beef then take it up with your state legislatures. Don't blame your woes on Tal's ideology.

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Like I said, you don't know what you're talking about. School districts do the actual day to day administration of schools. States provide PART of the funding and establish standards. And yes, your ideology that parents of kids trapped in terrible schools can basically kiss-off is awful.

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Why do you answer a question with a question?

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You mean like you just did?

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You simply want to find something to criticize and insult.

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You mean like you're doing?

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This strategy of yours is not unfamiliar. You have no real interest in WG's belief. You simply want to find something to criticize and insult. Defensive fundamentalists are commonly guilty of this. Why not just answer the WG question she asked - Why do you want to know her relationship with God? Are you God's lawyer - self-appointed as checking up on others?

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Why do you want to know why I want to know? Are you God's lawyer - self-appointed as checking up on others?

Like I told you a few days ago. Before you start passing out advice, try it out yourself first.

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This thread is about Hillary. Start a new thread under the appropriate topic, and I'll wander over and post.

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If you don't want to post then don't post. The discussion was actually between Tal and me. You wanted to join. That's fine, but why are you complaining about it now?

Oh we are not off topic again are we?

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Oh we are not off topic again are we?

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Sadly, that is true. My deepest apologies! )>:

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Why do you want to know why I want to know? Are you God's lawyer - self-appointed as checking up on others?

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You are the master of non-answers. That's to be expected. But when you appoint yourself as God's checker-upper, you're treading on dangerous ground.

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But when you appoint yourself as God's checker-upper, you're treading on dangerous ground.

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I responded to you the way I did simply to illustrate what you frequently do, which is to be critical of someone else doing what you do yourself. As to the question, the topic under discussion concerned God and the Bible, so to ask someone their personal view of God seemed relevant to me. As to being "God's checker-upper", once again you are doing what you criticize me for doing. If we shouldn't do that, then why are you "checking up" on my behavior? Are you treading on dangerous ground?

In any case I was curious so I asked. It was not intended to be a judgement against her. It wouldn't bother me at all for someone to ask me if I have a personal relationship with Jesus. It would be an honor to answer the question! WG confesses the Christian faith, so I can't imagine why the question would have been a problem, but if it was then just ignore it. It's all good. We can just drop it if it bothers someone.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

In any case I was curious so I asked. It was not intended to be a judgement against her. It wouldn't bother me at all for someone to ask me if I have a personal relationship with Jesus. It would be an honor to answer the question! WG confesses the Christian faith, so I can't imagine why the question would have been a problem, but if it was then just ignore it. It's all good. We can just drop it if it bothers someone.

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You said, "WG confesses the Christian faith." Then why are you asking me about my relationship with God? If I don't answer, then what does that tell you?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I responded to you the way I did simply to illustrate what you frequently do, which is to be critical of someone else doing what you do yourself.

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I don't do it in the name of God.

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You said, "WG confesses the Christian faith." Then why are you asking me about my relationship with God?

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I know a number of confessing Christians who do not have a real living relationship with God. For them, it's as though He lives on the moon. It does make a difference.

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If I don't answer, then what does that tell you?

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It told me absolutely nothing. Personally, I'd be happy to answer the question and love to talk about such things, but if it bothers you so much, then don't worry about it.

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I don't do it in the name of God.

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Neither did I. At any rate, you were replying to this statement. "I responded to you the way I did simply to illustrate what you frequently do, which is to be critical of someone else doing what you do yourself." I'm not sure what difference it makes whose name you do it in.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I know a number of confessing Christians who do not have a real living relationship with God.

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There you go again, telling about others who don't have "a real living relationship with God". How would you know? Does God tell you about these "confessing Christians"?

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I'm not sure what difference it makes whose name you do it in.

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It does if you claim doing it in the name of God.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

They most assuredly do. Those situations stay in the news. The one linked below is just a sample and it's from 07.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ma...rmal-this-fall

You worked with the PTA??? I worked IN THE SCHOOLS. And, as I said, some are good, and some are not good.

Like I said, you don't know what you're talking about. School districts do the actual day to day administration of schools. States provide PART of the funding and establish standards. And yes, your ideology that parents of kids trapped in terrible schools can basically kiss-off is awful.

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Like I said your rhetorical exaggeration is often over the top, and educating young folks about how to treat a fellow human that's different promotes nothing but respect for a fellow human. That SHOULD be taught at home, but it has to be taught everywhere. And I would love to tell you of the many battles I and the wife have fought in the schools my kids attended, and if you would have even considered sending my kid or any kid to a JAIL without notifying me I would have a piece of your arse and who ever else okayed it. That's the power that PARENTS have in the operation of THEIR school!

That applies to why those schools are so awful in the first place! Maybe the PARENT need to fire some of those teachers and administrators, or give them the help and support they need to succeed in educating our kids. It's a shared responsibility. LOL, yeah we had conflicts with teachers and administrators, but overall I feel that personal relationships with teachers and principals go a long way in making for a better experience for the kids, and addressing their issues.

Contrary to popular beliefs teachers and principals are humans too, and have daunting jobs for sure!

You sure are up either awfully early or really late. What's up?

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Like I said your rhetorical exaggeration is often over the top, and educating young folks about how to treat a fellow human that's different promotes nothing but respect for a fellow human. That SHOULD be taught at home, but it has to be taught everywhere. And I would love to tell you of the many battles I and the wife have fought in the schools my kids attended, and if you would have even considered sending my kid or any kid to a JAIL without notifying me I would have a piece of your arse and who ever else okayed it. That's the power that PARENTS have in the operation of THEIR school!

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First you said it wasn't happening, and now you say it is happening. Make up your mind. At any rate, your imagination is mightily at work now. Not one person has mentioned sending anyone's kid to jail.

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That applies to why those schools are so awful in the first place! Maybe the PARENT need to fire some of those teachers and administrators, or give them the help and support they need to succeed in educating our kids. It's a shared responsibility. LOL, yeah we had conflicts with teachers and administrators, but overall I feel that personal relationships with teachers and principals go a long way in making for a better experience for the kids, and addressing their issues.

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It would be far better that those parents have the opportunity to send their child to a different school rather than having to keep them in a lousy school because someone else's political perspective won't allow otherwise.

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Contrary to popular beliefs teachers and principals are humans too, and have daunting jobs for sure!

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Do you really think you're saying something I didn't already know?

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There you go again, telling about others who don't have "a real living relationship with God". How would you know? Does God tell you about these "confessing Christians"?

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No. They do.

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It does if you claim doing it in the name of God.

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So I'll say for the second time (Learn to listen!) that I have not suggested I'm doing such a thing. That idea came from your overactive imagination.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You sure are up either awfully early or really late. What's up?

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Eay to fall asleep rather early in the day when its cold wet and rainy.

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First you said it wasn't happening, and now you say it is happening. Make up your mind. At any rate, your imagination is mightily at work now. Not one person has mentioned sending anyone's kid to jail.

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Not like you said it was, and I specified your promoting angle as the stick in your position. I admit to being out of the loop generally since my kids are long grown and gone, but you must see that I have empathy for oppressed minorities and the way they are marginalized and discriminated against. To a gay person, being gay IS normal, and should be treated as such, and yes I convey that to my kids, and even grand kids. I think we have discussed kids being put in jail by school officials and how soon you forget.

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It would be far better that those parents have the opportunity to send their child to a different school rather than having to keep them in a lousy school because someone else's political perspective won't allow otherwise.

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So you have a problem with eliminating failing schools and making them successful at educating kids? Your political perspective is puzzling.

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Do you really think you're saying something I didn't already know?

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Hard to tell sometimes as you come off as a holier than thou dictator type who doesn't have to listen and therefore lack understanding of others POV.

I wish I could sleep during the day. I just never have really been able to. Did you ever live in one of the old houses with metal roofs during the rain? It was like a melody.

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but you must see that I have empathy for oppressed minorities and the way they are marginalized and discriminated against. To a gay person, being gay IS normal, and should be treated as such, and yes I convey that to my kids, and even grand kids.

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Then let your empathy take you to the place of allowing those parents to put their kids in the school of their own choice and not the school of the government's choice. As to homosexuals, you can teach your kids what you wish. It's the school teaching them that homosexuality or transgenderism is perfectly normal that many parents object to.

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So you have a problem with eliminating failing schools and making them successful at educating kids? Your political perspective is puzzling.

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You're going to eliminate them and make them successful? How can an eliminated school be successful?

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Hard to tell sometimes as you come off as a holier than thou dictator type who doesn't have to listen and therefore lack understanding of others POV.

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That's not my intention but I imagine I do come across that way from time to time. I am working on trying to do better!

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

As to homosexuals, you can teach your kids what you wish. It's the school teaching them that homosexuality or transgenderism is perfectly normal that many parents object to.

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And those parents need some educating themselves!

Perfect answer WG!

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Then let your empathy take you to the place of allowing those parents to put their kids in the school of their own choice and not the school of the government's choice.

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Let's try this another way. In your experience why are some schools failing?

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And those parents need some educating themselves!

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Perhaps they have already been educated from the Bible. If so, they will not accept your error.

Did a little reading last night. I could not find a single Greek lexicon that renders arsenokoitiai in the manner you prefer. I cannot find a single major translation that renders it that way, and I don't know of any Greek interlinear that agrees with you, so you are standing alone against a tidal wave of NT scholarship. The Romans 1 passage is also a clear denunciation of homosexual activity. Now if you want to say that such a lifestyle is OK on the basis of your psychiatry books, or that it is part of liberal political thought, then fine, but it plainly is not allowed in Scripture. For you to say that is the case is to intentionally mislead people.

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Let's try this another way. In your experience why are some schools failing?

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Great question for discussion! To begin with, it has very little to do with money, or at least most of the time that is true. As a general rule, schools that have students who will behave and have some level of the discipline needed for learning will do well so long as the school is well led and the teachers are supported and do their jobs well. Failing schools nearly always have discipline issues. In our city schools here, for instance, thanks to a settlement with the Obama DOJ, students can curse at teachers and very little is done about it. Not surprisingly, the better teachers won't tolerate that so they go elsewhere. The District's test scores are a train wreck, and good families are abandoning the city as much as they can.

I was at a city school about fifteen years ago that started, in our testing program, on the lowest score level (1) and four years later ended up at the top level (5). Very few schools did that. We had good discipline, our students responded well, and our teachers were very good. Now, that is no longer the case and the school repeatedly scores low on testing. It is tragic and completely needless.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

No. They do.

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"Confessing Christians" (your phrase) tell you they don't have "a real living relationship with God"? Complete nonsense! I'm not surprised you make up things like this. You have delusions of holiness acting like God's messenger.

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So I'll say for the second time (Learn to listen!) that I have not suggested I'm doing such a thing. That idea came from your overactive imagination.

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No, not an overactive imagination; it came from the words you have written on these very pages. (Learn to tell the truth.) No one but you has sought the religious beliefs of other posters here. It's typical fundamentalism, searching for faults or for different beliefs in others with your only reason for doing so to tell them they "don't have a real living relationship with God".

Your troll-like ilk is common on the internet. Aided by anonymity.

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No, not an overactive imagination; it came from the words you have written on these very pages. (Learn to tell the truth.) No one but you has sought the religious beliefs of other posters here. It's typical fundamentalism, searching for faults or for different beliefs in others with your only reason for doing so to tell them they "don't have a real living relationship with God".

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Find the place (quote) where I have said I am speaking for God, or admit that you are a liar.

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Your troll-like ilk is common on the internet. Aided by anonymity.

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More name calling. Again, when you run out of sound arguments, then you run to name calling like a scared little child.

As to Christians who do not have a personal relationship with God, that is a common complaint in the church. It is not helped by the position held by many teachers that God no longer speaks to people by the Holy Spirit, but rather He only speaks through the Bible.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Find the place (quote) where I have said I am speaking for God, or admit that you are a liar.

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Find it yourself. Every single person here knows you play God with your prejudices and comments. The only liar here is you.

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More name calling. Again, when you run out of sound arguments, then you run to name calling like a scared little child.

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This is your only and frequent response to members challenging you. Oddly enough, you are the chief name-caller. The quote above is a good example.

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As to Christians who do not have a personal relationship with God, that is a common complaint in the church. It is not helped by the position held by many teachers that God no longer speaks to people by the Holy Spirit, but rather He only speaks through the Bible.

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Complete and utter fundamentalist nonsense!