No Tal he just twists the facts to exclude the republican malaise and blames the democrats. Obama has a hard job governing an ungovernable country and so will his successor. A two party system is an excuse for deadlock

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Come off it Tom, you guys balk at doing what it takes fiscally to secure a border. The Senate Immigration reform bill has all the provisions you guys have asked for, yet it died in the house. A repub house no less.

Talk about strawman arguments! You're good.

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you mean the gang of 8 shamnesty ?

Show me the border control provision in the plan . That was a classic example of what we get from bi-partisan deals ........nothing .Marco Rubio admits he made a mistake supporting it.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_o...t_(immigration)

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Originally Posted by paraclete

No Tal he just twists the facts to exclude the republican malaise and blames the democrats. Obama has a hard job governing an ungovernable country and so will his successor. A two party system is an excuse for deadlock

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Clete ,if you lived here you would be on my side because there is no way your country would tolerate millions of illegals taking jobs and sucking on the teat of the welfare system.

This is the link Tom intended to post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border...on_Act_of_2013

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.... It would also make the border more secure by adding up to 40,000 border patrol agents......

The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimates this reform bill would reduce the US fiscal deficit by US$197 billion over the next ten years and by $700 billion by 2033.^[5] Its report also states that, if this bill becomes law, US wages would be 0.1 percent lower in 2023 and 0.5 percent higher in 2033 than under current law.^[6] The Social Security Administration says that this bill, if it becomes law, would help add $276 billion in revenue over the next 10 years while costing only $33 billion..........

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You're welcome

The House opposed it because of the lessons they learned from Simpson -Mazzoli . Here's the facts ;you will never get "comprehensive immigration reform " because we know your side is not trustworthy .Pass border security reform 1st then we'll talk .

This is what Rubio said after his painful lesson ..“But what I’ve learned is you can’t even have a conversation about that until people believe and know—not just believe, but it’s proven to them—that future illegal immigration will be controlled. That is the single biggest lesson of the last two years.”

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The House opposed it because of the lessons they learned from Simpson -Mazzoli . Here's the facts ;you will never get "comprehensive immigration reform " because we know your side is not trustworthy .Pass border security reform 1st then we'll talk .

This is what Rubio said after his painful lesson ..“But what I've learned is you can't even have a conversation about that until people believe and know—not just believe, but it's proven to them—that future illegal immigration will be controlled. That is the single biggest lesson of the last two years.”

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Translation-Any excuse to obstruct Obama will do, and deny him credit for anything will do. Stall and obstruct is repubs MO.

And the people suffer.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Translation-Any excuse to obstruct Obama will do, and deny him credit for anything will do. Stall and obstruct is repubs MO.

And the people suffer.

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The people have suffered plenty with 61/2 years of the emperor's reign.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The people have suffered plenty with 61/2 years of the emperor's reign.

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All we can do is hope Donald Trump becomes President and pulls us out of the terrible slump we're in, builds that impenetrable wall between us and Mexico, and gets Planned Parenthood back in operation!

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Clete ,if you lived here you would be on my side because there is no way your country would tolerate millions of illegals taking jobs and sucking on the teat of the welfare system.

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Tom there is no way we would tolerate this shambolic form of government. I live in a place where parliamentary deadlock is common however the parties find a way to either negotiate the pass of legislation or abandon an unteniable position. We do have mechanisms for overcoming blockages and the party that controls the house controls the government.

As far as illegals are concerned we have the position that if you are not supposed to be here you will be placed in detention and deported. This is not to say we don't have illegals, there are overstayers but you cannot just walk across the border or rock up and expect to be given entry. I sympatise with a nation with borders as long as yours with hordes standing on the other side, but we have stemmed the tide, even though we know these people now go somewhere else. In your case they have nowhere else to go

Tom you say your people have suffered under the emperor, I wonder how much you will suffer under Trump whose only skill is to say "you're fired!"

My life Matter; My families Life Matter; My friends life matter; All my loved ones life Matter; My co-worker life matter; All of the above.. anyone I care their life matter to me. They have mixed color and skin, some could be related to KKK( their Grand parents may be, who knows? They are White); some are Arab and Middle Eastern.. Jews.. Olive Skin.. some Dark.. Skin African, Indian Vegetarian.. Asian with Slant eyes and White Skin..

WHATEVER; to me it the ALL LIFE MATTER. ALL AMERICAN LIFE MATTER.
DO NOT CARE FOR PEOPLE WHO TRY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM;BECAUSE THEY ARE MINORITY/BLACK. IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON.

No one suggests your life doesn't matter, it is Tom who suggests that his form of government should look after the haves and ignore the have nots. There was a time when the republicans championed the anti-slavery cause, it would seem they would reimpose it. I think that position was expedient, what they really wanted to do was destroy the democtrat power base

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

All we can do is hope Donald Trump becomes President and pulls us out of the terrible slump we're in, builds that impenetrable wall between us and Mexico, and gets Planned Parenthood back in operation!

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you can't possibly believe that ;although I agree that he is the 2nd biggest statist/socialist in the race.

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Tom you say your people have suffered under the emperor, I wonder how much you will suffer under Trump whose only skill is to say "you're fired!"

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Don't presume for a second I support that AH

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Originally Posted by paraclete

No one suggests your life doesn't matter, it is Tom who suggests that his form of government should look after the haves and ignore the have nots. There was a time when the republicans championed the anti-slavery cause, it would seem they would reimpose it. I think that position was expedient, what they really wanted to do was destroy the democtrat power base

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complete lie and distortion of the positions I take .

I thought Trump was the epitome of a capitalist. Now he's a communist? Or do you imply there is a similarity between capitalists and communists?

OMG!! :O... Tom is a COMMUNIST!!

<Didn't see that coming, we should have a coming out the closet party! ;D>

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I thought Trump was the epitome of a capitalist. Now he's a communist? Or do you imply there is a similarity between capitalists and communists?

OMG!! :O... Tom is a COMMUNIST!!

<Didn't see that coming, we should have a coming out the closet party! ;D>

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Trump favors single payer heath care . Trump favors a punitive wealth tax. Trump is in favor of planned parenthood. Trump is in favor of the 'assault rifle ' ban. He in no conservative .

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Trump favors single payer heath care . Trump favors a punitive wealth tax. Trump is in favor of planned parenthood. Trump is in favor of the 'assault rifle ' ban. He in no conservative .

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You mean to say you have actually found an american with common sense who wants to lead? And what do you think; the guy must be a communist. So you have gone from left wing imperialist to right wing communist, what a land of contradictions

I wouldn't mind a conservative president Tom, except the current crop are idiot clowns.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I wouldn't mind a conservative president Tom, except the current crop are idiot clowns.

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You wouldn't mind a conservative President ? I guess you wouldn't if they held statist progressive policy positions

It might be useful for you to elect a president who has the confidence of the House. I observe Trumpkin wants a test applied to immigrants as to whether they are good or bad people, I would have thought breaking the law automatically placed you in the bad box, but apparently not. The test is to be a little more subjective like whether you have the money for an extortinate visa fee

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Originally Posted by tomder55

You wouldn't mind a conservative President ? I guess you wouldn't if they held statist progressive policy positions

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I would settle for thoughtful but that's rare for repubs, let alone conservatives these days. They are all screaming Yo-Yo's and that includes the Trumpster, who just came out yesterday and said he would deport all the undocumented aliens.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I would settle for thoughtful but that's rare for repubs, let alone conservatives these days. They are all screaming Yo-Yo's and that includes the Trumpster, who just came out yesterday and said he would deport all the undocumented aliens.

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Here's the flip flopper from ONE MONTH AGO

(around the 5 minute mark) .

When CNN's Dana Bash asked Trump whether he favored a path to citizenship for illegals he says “Right now, no,” ... “we'll see, later, down the line, who knows what's going to happen.”

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2...ash-interview- the-lead.cnn

That's quite a shift in a month to "We're going to keep the families together, but they [those in the country illegally] have to go,"

His position paper without that is reasonable .
Nationwide E-Verify, visa-tracking for foreign visitors, cutting off aid to sanctuary cities, making overstay of a visa a criminal offense, tightening up on H-1B visas to prevent their being used to import cheap labor, ending birthright citizenship, etc .

Trump pretty much echos mainstream Republican views as have been articulated by a number of the candidates . Some have spoken at great length on the Senate floor with them. The biggest difference I see is that many of the Chamber of Commerce type Repubs have called for more H1B-s (although they have been pretty silent since the abuses by companies like Disney were exposed ) .

This proposal to gather them up and deport them ,although good red meat for the masses ,sound undoable to me . For one thing ,he doesn't have the law on his side regarding anchor children ,so he will be spending a lot of time battling it out in court . Since the emperor uses executive fiat ,perhaps he thinks a Republican POTUS should have that unconstitutional power to make law also .

Here in NY the Guardian Angels are again patrolling Central Park because the commie Bill deBlasio has let crime again get out of control. The Guardian Angels do not arm themselves but are schooled in the art of self defense.

Guardian Angels return to New York's Central Park - Telegraph