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Originally Posted by talaniman

Are you going to make us look that up to get your point?

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No

The Waco Massacre

It would seem the publicity about Mr. Bundy is generating some coverage of other aspects of this controversy. This is getting better.

Western States Gather: 'The Urgency is Now' to Take Control of Federal Land

Article One, Section 8, Clause 17,provides for the creation of Washington, D.C. as the seat of the federal government and allows the federal government to purchase lands in a state with "the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings.”

It is of questionable constitutionality that the Federal Government retained so much of the Western States lands after the States were admitted into the union.

But from here, will simple condemnation of the property by the state governments be enough?

BLM Whistleblower Exposes the Clark County Land Grab: It's Much Bigger than We Thought : Freedom Outpost

That article syas they can't make sense of it, so how can we?

[COLOR=#333333]Well Clive is extending his 15 minutes, and more are running from him.

[/COLOR]http://www.examiner.com/article/cliven-bundy-exposed-embarrassed-republicans-running-away

How a patriot can be against the government is beyond me but the founders had their own methods to handle law breakers, and din't wait 20 years either,

Whiskey Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Throughout counties in Western Pennsylvania, protesters used violence and intimidation to prevent federal officials from collecting the tax. Resistance came to a climax in July 1794, when a U.S. marshal arrived in western Pennsylvania to serve writs to distillers who had not paid the excise. The alarm was raised, and more than 500 armed men attacked the fortified home of tax inspector General John Neville. Washington responded by sending peace commissioners to western Pennsylvania to negotiate with the rebels, while at the same time calling on governors to send a militia force to enforce the tax. With 13,000 militia provided by the governors of Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania,Washington rode at the head of an army to suppress the insurgency. The rebels all went home before the arrival of the army, and there was no confrontation.

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Daily Kos :: Chickensh*t TeaParty Militia in Nevada Wanted To Use Woman as Human Shields for Cliven Bundy

Any more questions?

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How a patriot can be against the government is beyond me but the founders had their own methods to handle law breakers, and din't wait 20 years either,

Whiskey Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Daily Kos :: Chickensh*t TeaParty Militia in Nevada Wanted To Use Woman as Human Shields for Cliven Bundy

Any more questions?

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the very notion of patriotism in your nation is to be opposed to government, the very notion of your second amendment rights as they are applied today is to be opposed to government, your republican representatives would consider themselves patriots as they oppose the elected government of the day. I don't know where you get these ideas but put them back

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Originally Posted by paraclete

the very notion of patriotism in your nation is to be opposed to government, the very notion of your second amendment rights as they are applied today is to be opposed to government, your republican representatives would consider themselves patriots as they oppose the elected government of the day. I don't know where you get these ideas but put them back

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I think you have the wrong idea here. The notion of patriotism is about beleiving in this country and the beleifs of the founders. If the government gets too far out of hand then the people have the right to stand against it. It is not an antigovernment thing it is more of a safety mechanism incase this government spins out of control.

The second amendment is the most important amendment as it is the only one that protects all others. Without it then there is no last resort for the people.

Interesting news out today. The "RACIST!!!" meme doesn't seem to be working

CNN Goes Bundy-Trolling on Racial Issues & Gets Retort from Black Bodyguard They Don't Expect

patiotism means defending your country against invaders, standing up for your country, it doesn't mean opposing an elected government. This is why I say that the ideas are all skewed, words no longer mean what they once did, now patriot means rebel

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Originally Posted by paraclete

patiotism means defending your country against invaders, standing up for your country, it doesn't mean opposing an elected government. This is why I say that the ideas are all skewed, words no longer mean what they once did, now patriot means rebel

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Not here.. you forget... We told the King of England to get stuffed... he was once the government, in fact we fought a war to prove how serious we were about it.

The government is there to serve us... we are not there to serve the government.

I forget nothing, rebellion is rebellion, you were successful after years of conflict and the good luck of remoteness and the fact that your king had many enemies who exploited the situation. By this I am not saying that the Georgian regime didn't handle the situation poorly or with arrogance, but the situation of my nation demonstrates that rebellion is not necessary to achieve the objective of independence

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Originally Posted by paraclete

I forget nothing, rebellion is rebellion, you were successful after years of conflict and the good luck of remoteness and the fact that your king had many enemies who exploited the situation. By this I am not saying that the Georgian regime didn't handle the situation poorly or with arrogance, but the situation of my nation demonstrates that rebellion is not necessary to achieve the objective of independence

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I take it you refer to your country, that used remoteness and the good luck that your king was too busy with WWI to bother with you to achieve independence.

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Originally Posted by Catsmine

I take it you refer to your country, that used remoteness and the good luck that your king was too busy with WWI to bother with you to achieve independence.

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Cats where did that load of bullshlt come from? My country achieved independence in 1901 when it became the Commonwealth of Australia. It did not fight a war to achieve independence. We fought in WWI and lost many thousands, a generation even, but even then we were a force to be reckoned with, long before your country got off its backside and helped out. Our remoteness did one thing for us, it gave us the will to achieve without relying on those who are fairweather friends

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Originally Posted by paraclete

patiotism means defending your country against invaders, standing up for your country, it doesn't mean opposing an elected government. This is why I say that the ideas are all skewed, words no longer mean what they once did, now patriot means rebel

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That's a convoluted load of nonsense. Patriotism is devotion to your country, not your elected government. When your elected government oppresses its people they should be opposed. Patriotism means protecting your country from enemies, foreign or domestic.

We have the means to change our governments every two years through the ballots not with guns. Its OUR government, and OUR country. We can argue some may not like it, but when you take up arms against the government its fellow citizens you are looking to shoot, not some invading foreign army. To take up arms against a duly elected government for a fellow that has been basically a squatter, and lost his 20 year old case in court twice is ridicules.

All his fellow ranchers pay their fees and follow the law, he did NOT, and lost in court. He may not recognize the government as legit, MANY do not, but they are bound by the same rule of law we all are. To defend a guy who works outside the law and breaks it, gun or not, beliefs or not is just wrong. He chose to disregard the rules and tries to take the law into his own hands to avoid the consequences of his actions so he is no patriot, or hero. Just another law breaker.

He will be dealt with, peacefully, in time. And so will the vigilante law.

I agree with you Tal supporting Bundy is not patriotism these are the same sort of arguments that started your civil war predicated on the notion that the government doesn't have the right to enforce the law. it is the states rights argument all over again, law at the point of a gun

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Originally Posted by talaniman

We have the means to change our governments every two years through the ballots not with guns. Its OUR government, and OUR country. We can argue some may not like it, but when you take up arms against the government its fellow citizens you are looking to shoot, not some invading foreign army. To take up arms against a duly elected government for a fellow that has been basically a squatter, and lost his 20 year old case in court twice is ridicules.

All his fellow ranchers pay their fees and follow the law, he did NOT, and lost in court. He may not recognize the government as legit, MANY do not, but they are bound by the same rule of law we all are. To defend a guy who works outside the law and breaks it, gun or not, beliefs or not is just wrong. He chose to disregard the rules and tries to take the law into his own hands to avoid the consequences of his actions so he is no patriot, or hero. Just another law breaker.

He will be dealt with, peacefully, in time. And so will the vigilante law.

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Meanwhile, while waiting for the election you're cool with rights being eroded and government oppression. Funny, but that's not how you lefties reacted to the Bush years. Sorry my friend, we're not going to bend over and take it in the arse either.

Do you need your guns to get to the next election? Of course not. That has nothing to do with the Bundy case either.