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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And her being willing (no religious concerns) to hire gays and sell flowers to them, knowing they are gay, cancels out the wedding "participation" problem. If this is how her Bible reads ("no participation in gay weddings"), she should have a sign on her shop window, "Gays will not be hired or served in any capacity."

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Your rights don't get "canceled out" that way and you don't get to decide when she can exercise those rights.

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supplying flowers to a homosexual marriage is participating in the marriage ceremony . That is an indisputable fact.

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Uh no, that's not 'indisputable' - in fact it's highly disputable. It's a textbook case of slippery slope type of argument - BBC - Ethics - Introduction to ethics: The slippery slope

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Your rights don't get "canceled out" that way and you don't get to decide when she can exercise those rights.

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So she can hire gays and sell to gays, but just not deliver flowers to a same-sex wedding. (I truly do not understand the difference.)

Her Bible says homosexuality is an abomination. Why not all or nothing? (Gays' money is acceptable sometimes, but not at other times?)

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Uh no, that's not 'indisputable' - in fact it's highly disputable. It's a textbook case of slippery slope type of argument - BBC - Ethics - Introduction to ethics: The slippery slope

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I get it that you don't understand religion.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So she can hire gays and sell to gays, but just not deliver flowers to a same-sex wedding. (I truly do not understand the difference.)

Her Bible says homosexuality is an abomination. Why not all or nothing? (Gays' money is acceptable sometimes, but not at other times?)

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Tom answered that already.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

I get it that you don't understand religion.

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Why does her religion allow her to sell flowers to gays sometimes but not at other times?

If two lesbians came into her shop holding hands and wanted to buy an nice arrangement for the dining room table, would she sell flowers to them?

If a gay guy came in and said he wanted to send a dozen red roses to his legally married gay partner, would she refuse to complete the transaction?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

tom answered that already.

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No, he used Jesus to skirt around my question.

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I get it that you don't understand religion.

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Oh I do, better than you think.

Enumerate for us the interactions with homosexuals that are allowed and those that aren't allowed, as per Jesus and/or the bible.

Hello again,

I think Carol made a compelling LEGAL argument too. If doing business with gays is bad, then she shouldn't do business with them AT ALL. But, if she SELECTIVELY does business with them, then she can't argue that she refused to do business THIS TIME because of her religious conscience.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

I think Carol made a compelling LEGAL argument too. If doing business with gays is bad, then she shouldn't do business with them AT ALL. But, if she SELECTIVELY does business with them, then she can't argue that she refused to do business THIS TIME because of her religious conscience.

excon

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Nice summary!

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again,

I think Carol made a compelling LEGAL argument too. If doing business with gays is bad, then she shouldn't do business with them AT ALL. But, if she SELECTIVELY does business with them, then she can't argue that she refused to do business THIS TIME because of her religious conscience.

excon

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And if all they wanted to do was pick flowers up at her shop she probably would have had no problem, but to do a wedding you have to go the site and set up the flowers, etc. What if the wedding were at a porn shop, a strip club? What if the wedding was a nude affair? What if they wanted Satanic symbols in the arrangements? Is there any point at which you would give the poor lady a break? Geez dude, you guys have zero sympathy for a Christian trying to balance her faith and her business. Get over it and leave her be.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

And if all they wanted to do was pick flowers up at her shop she probably would have had no problem, but to do a wedding you have to go the site and set up the flowers, etc. What if the wedding were at a porn shop, a strip club? What if the wedding was a nude affair? What if they wanted Satanic symbols in the arrangements?

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Had she been doing business with the porn shop owner, strip club owner, nude affair organizer in the past as she had been with the gay guy who wanted flowers for his wedding?

OH! Had the gay couple picked up their wedding flowers at her shop, THEN it would have been okay with her? That smells to high heaven. Isn't she still "participating" by supplying goods for their happy day, thereby "approving" of their union?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

If she wants to be consistent in her religious principles and convictions, she should NOT be hiring gays or selling anything to them.

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Actually that iisnt true. As a catholic the teaching say to embrace people but there are lines drawn as far as acceptance. If someone were a thief and was reforming then you embrace them. But if they continue to be a thief then you don't embrace them but pray for change. It goes against religious principle to deny someone that is trying to reform or is trying to live up to the faith. There is no prohibition in the catholic church against gays so long as they are non practicing. If they live a celebate life then they walk with god.

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Originally Posted by cdad

Actually that iisnt true. As a catholic the teaching say to embrace people but there are lines drawn as far as acceptance. If someone were a thief and was reforming then you embrace them. But if they continue to be a thief then you dont embrace them but pray for change. It goes against religious principle to deny someone that is trying to reform or is trying to live up to the faith. There is no prohibition in the catholic church against gays so long as they are non practicing. If they live a celebate life then they walk with god.

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She knew her gay employees and customers were non-practicing homosexuals?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

She knew her gay employees and customers were non-practicing homosexuals?

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I don't know what she knew or didn't know. Do you?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Had she been doing business with the porn shop owner, strip club owner, nude affair organizer in the past as she had been with the gay guy who wanted flowers for his wedding?

OH! Had the gay couple picked up their wedding flowers at her shop, THEN it would have been okay with her? That smells to high heaven. Isn't she still "participating" by supplying goods for their happy day, thereby "approving" of their union?

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In other words there is no point at which you would give the lady a break in trying to balance her faith and business and everyone's rights. Correct? I mean it seems clear to me that the only rights you and the lefties want protected are those of the gay couple. Correct?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

In other words there is no point at which you would give the lady a break in trying to balance her faith and business and everyone's rights. Correct? I mean it seems clear to me that the only rights you and the lefties want protected are those of the gay couple. Correct?

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If she wants to run a business open to the public, she cannot discriminate.

Does she supply flowers to weddings of interracial couples?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

If she wants to run a business open to the public, she cannot discriminate.

Does she supply flowers to weddings of interracial couples?

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That did not answer my questions.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

That did not answer my questions.

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If she wants to run a business open to the public, she cannot discriminate.

I would give her the same break she give the gay couple. They exercised their right and sued her for discrimination, and she exercised her rights to counter sue.

What ever the judge says, he says. That's the breaks. That's the law.