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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Uhhh, yes.

excon

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Really... care to elaborate a bit... rather than the propaganda you saw on a PBS special.

Which was half truths and paranoia along with a heavy dose of pure BS of how the Telecom infrastructure actually is set up with NO specifics to anyone that knows anyting about the field.


Because I can tell every single piece of equipment on a circuit between Hoboken NJ and Timbuktu, the ENTIRE way... change its settings or shut it down. As long as I know specifics about a particular segment.

Obviously not EVERY one of the bearers... but maybe 50% of what exists in the USA, and 100% of what certain carriers have.

I do this stuff every day... finding and fixing problems that can be anywhere in the world, or isolating it to a specific area and referring it out to a tech local to the problem. Even if its in another Country.


I think some of those people so paranoid need to break out the alluminum foil and make hats so their thoughts can't be scanned too.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Really.........care to elaborate a bit.....rather than the propaganda you saw on a PBS special.

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Hello again, smoothy:

Instead, let's approach it from this direction. Given your background, would you say that it's technically feasible for the government to intercept ALL our phone calls and ALL our emails?

excon

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Because I can tell every single piece of equipment on a circuit between Hoboken NJ and Timbuktu, the ENTIRE way

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My father worked for telco all his life and I worked in cableco for a while and now I'm pretty handy with the internet and the IP protocol; I'd like to hear this equipment listing - go!

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Instead, let's approach it from this direction. Given your background, would you say that it's technically feasable for the government to intercept ALL our phone calls and ALL our emails?

excon

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You need to be far more specific than that... there is a big difference between knowing whom everyone called... and knowing what everyone was saying.

And opposite answers to both.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

My father worked for telco all his life and I worked in cableco for a while and now I'm pretty handy with the internet and the IP protocol; I'd like to hear this equipment listing - go!

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He might have a clue... but you don't understand it... based on how you phrased that question.

But I can give you a computer analogy... its far from being equal... but do a complete traceroute from one computer and another anyplace. Its actually far more complex than that, but it is a simplified analogy. THere is far more equipment involved than just Routers between say the east coast and west coast. Repeaters, switches, DACS... On various Trunks and Bearers. But its something you should be able to relate to. Now all of tha tequipment is far more complex and configuration specific than any of those routers are... but that should let you begin to visualise it at a leavel that won't be confusing.


Think a transoceanic Cable is copper? And like a really long extension cord? THink again... Its fiber... there is copper to provide power for the required repeaters along the way...

I didn't even phrase a question, I just wanted you to name the things you said you could name. You're going to have to be careful about assuming people are ignorant, that could come back to haunt you.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I didn't even phrase a question, I just wanted you to go ahead and name the things you said you could name. You're going to have to be careful about assuming people are ignorant, that could come back to haunt you.

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That's something others here need to remember, yourself included. I've spent a lot of time over the years in places I can't repeat. Seen things I can't repeat... worked with people I can't repeat.

And I see people all the time making impossible claims when I have been there and saw it and reality was far different than they claimed.

Take it as you wish... I could care less. I don't have a pathological need to convince anyone of anything. I've seen too many people that think they know everything when all they have is a snippet on a topic, and they don't fathom what they don't know. Most of them tend to be very young and lack the experience to know how little they really know because they can't see how much there really might be to know on any specific thing.

At the end of the day... they have only BS'd themselves.

And to be honest... "The phrase Ignorance is Bliss" you will understand after you've seen enough things you whish you never saw.

I'd be a far happier person if I had never left my home town... and never saw anything other than what the main stream media portays as news.

And this may be a shock to you... most of that was before FOX news even existed and before I was a registered republican.

CNN presented pure BS during the first gulf war...

But you can never go back. Time is a one way street.

What's the issue again ? Oh yeah... eaves dropping on Americans talking to jihadists overseas.
If the allegation of broad eaves dropping is asserted then it would be up to the person making the claim to provide the source.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

If the allegation of broad eaves dropping is asserted then it would be up to the person making the claim to provide the source.

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Hello tom:

This is the best I can do. It's what wikki says: "The exact scope of the program is not known, but the NSA is or was provided total, unsupervised access to all fiber-optic communications going between some of the nation's major telecommunication companies' major interconnect locations, including phone conversations, email, web browsing, and corporate private network traffic."

Now, I don't know about you, but if they have ALL of it, they're listening to ALL of it. Of course, you're free to believe that they're not... Like a good rightwinger, though, I don't trust the government. Do you?

excon

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Think a transoceanic Cable is copper? and like a really long extension cord? THink again......Its fiber....there is copper to provide power for the required repeaters along the way....

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Good job editing your answer after I posted my reply. You think I didn't know it was fiber?? Dude I sold point-to-point and frame relay, my brother worked in a CO. Do you really think you are smarter than everyone else?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I don't have a pathological need to convince anyone of anything.

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But you're the one that posted: "Because I can tell every single piece of equipment on a circuit between Hoboken NJ and Timbuktu, the ENTIRE way....change its settings or shut it down." Why are you trying to convince us that you're some master expert when you "don't have a pathological need to convince anyone"?

As opposed to yourself I truly enjoyed traveling the world - perhaps that is part of our different viewpoints.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello tom:

This is the best I can do. It's what wikki says: "The exact scope of the program is not known, but the NSA is or was provided total, unsupervised access to all fiber-optic communications going between some of the nation's major telecommunication companies' major interconnect locations, including phone conversations, email, web browsing, and corporate private network traffic."

Now, I dunno about you, but if they have ALL of it, they're listening to ALL of it. Of course, you're free to believe that they're not.... Like a good rightwinger, though, I don't trust the government. Do you?

excon

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Lets just say... The Positronic computer still exists only on Star Trek.

If you understood the sheer volume of bandwidth that passes through just one major city you would fathom the absurdity of "They listen to everything everyone says" claims they make. Who will listen to all of these calls... figuring you need one person for every call, or even for a machine to do it do you fathom the computational; power and sizes to do this... NOT even factoring in storage space. Example... how many times have you had to repeat yourself on some automated voice system? Several times right... now factor in hundreds of millions of calls every day.

What I just said makes more sense if you're a techie type. For the none tech type... you can't park all of the cars in NYC in your garage at the same time.


It would take hundreds of thousands of the most powerful supercomputers today to accomplish that.

Yeah SOME people could be listened to... not even most... and no possible way all could be.

I'm not saying it won't be possible at some point. But we aren't there yet... not even close.

And anyway... Obama never stopped it... I'm not worried... I AM worried more about the Feds having my private medical records and history than overhearing a call or two I may make. Heck... there is usually at last one person within earshot any time I talk on the phone.

I've never been planning hitting anything or bumping anyone off. They'd be bored to tears listening to my phone calls.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

If you understood the bandwidth that passes through just one major city you would fathom the absurdity of "They listen to everything everyone says" claims they make.

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Hello again, smoothy:

Most times I choose my words very carefully. This time I was shoddy, and you caught me. Certainly, they don't LISTEN to every one. They mine the data for key words, and THEN they listen and/or read. THAT supposition is NOT absurd, is it?

Listening or mining is a distinction without a difference. Both of them are violations of yours and my Fourth Amendment rights.

excon

I have a good question... why is the partyt that was so anti-big brother making 1984 come true.

Why is the party who opposed a national ID, want to hand over everyone's medical records to the same people.

Why are the same people that loved to protest so much... turn into the people that make threats to those who protest against them?


The democrats sounda lot like a Bipolar disorder to me.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Most times I choose my words very carefully. This time I was shoddy, and you caught me. Certainly, they don't LISTEN to every one. They mine the data for key words, and THEN they listen and/or read. THAT supposition is NOT absurd, is it?

Listening or mining is a distinction without a difference. Both of them are violations of yours and my Fourth Amendment rights.

excon

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A machine listening for key words "hears" nothing until those words are used. I do understand some things about voice recognition. But its not my field.

All they are is a "trigger". Get enough triggers and you might just get a breathing person listening eventually. But know what, you don't have a constitutional right to priveacy on the phone... otherwise courts would never issue wiretaps. Most states allow any ONE party to record the call without your knowledge or concent.

And foreign calls and foreigners are not covered under any expectations of privacy... legally.

I want to know WHY you worry so much about that since obviously you likely aren't planning a bank heist, or a coup. But think nothing about handing your private medical records over to PEOPLE who will use them for purposes other than what they should.

And there is no possible way who gets and who is refused care won't be politicised by the democrats...


Remember Filegate? This is Filegate on steroids.


You may not have meant "EVERY" (I'll take your word for it) but there ARE plenty of people that do believe that.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I have a good question.....why is the partyt that was so anti-big brother making 1984 come true.

The democrats sounda lot like a Bipolar disorder to me.

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Hello again, smoothy:

I think we were just talking about the government listening to or mining ALL of your phone calls and ALL of your emails. I don't know about you, but that looks pretty big brother to me. Yes, it was brought about by RIGHT WINGERS.

You and I ain't on the same wavelength, when we're talking about big brother. We're not on the same planet.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I think we were just talking about the government listening to or mining ALL of your phone calls and ALL of your emails. I dunno about you, but that looks pretty big brother to me. Yes, it was brought about by RIGHT WINGERS.

You and I ain't on the same wavelength, when we're talking about big brother. We're not on the same planet.

excon

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Again... this was taking place Under Bill Clinton... who last time I checked was ALWAYS a democrat.

Or is it OK if Democrats do it... and by the way.. Its happening Under Obama too. Another Democrat. That's TWO democrat presidends doing what ONE republican president did... but you ignore the two democrats to focus on the one Republican.

And News flash... you think other countries aren't doing it too? Well they are, and a whole lot more.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

But know what, you don't have a constitutional right to priveacy on the phone....otherwise courts would never issue wiretaps.

I want to know WHY you worry so much about that since obviously you likely aren't planning a bank heist, or a coup.

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Hello again, smoothy:

The courts issue warrants to wire tap specifically because you DO have a constitutional right to privacy. You're not going to win constitutional arguments with me.

I'm NOT one of those people who believe that if I have nothing to hide, then I shouldn't mind a little government snooping... No, I'm not one of those people at all. I worry about EVERYBODY'S rights under the Constitution, because if I don't, the next person who looses rights might be ME, and then I couldn't say anything about it.

I'm not black, but I stood up for Brown v Board of Education. I'm not a woman, but I stood up for the Equal Rights Amendment. I'm not gay, but I support the right of gay people to be treated exactly like everybody else. I'm not a rightwinger, but I'll stand up for your rights too.

excon

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, smoothy:

The courts issue warrants to wire tap specifically because you DO have a constitutional right to privacy. You're not gonna win constitutional arguments with me.

I'm NOT one of those people who believe that if I have nothing to hide, then I shouldn't mind a little government snooping.... No, I'm not one of those people at all. I worry about EVERYBODY'S rights under the Constitution, because if I don't, the next person who looses rights might be ME, and then I couldn't say anything about it.

I'm not black, but I stood up for Brown v Board of Education. I'm not a woman, but I stood up for the Equal Rights Amendment. I'm not gay, but I support the right of gay people to be treated exactly like everybody else. I'm not a rightwinger, but I'll stand up for your rights too.

excon

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So... then why are you fine with a politician determining if you will be allowed to have that bypass surgery, or the cancer Surgery... of have them (all non-medical staff) going through your medical records?

Having the interns having chuckles in the office about that anal fissure you had years ago, or (name anyting else embarrassing)... But you get upset if someone overhears you talking to the mechanic about your next oil change?

After All you can kiss the Dr. - Patient priveldge thing out the door when he has to had over all your records so the party can go through them.

What next... nationalise the legal system so they have the files of all defense lawyers to share with the prosecution? That is different how?

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Originally Posted by excon

you DO have a constitutional right to privacy.

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Which Article?

What Section?

Maybe my copy got edited. I always thought the right to privacy was found to be "implied" in the Roe v. Wade decision.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

So......then why are you fine with a politician determining if you will be allowed to have that bypass surgery, or the cancer Surgery.....of have them (all non-medical staff) going through your medical records?

Having the interns having chuckles in the office about that anal fissure you had years ago, or (name anyting else embarrassing)...But you get upset if someone overhears you talking to the mechanic about your next oil change?

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Smoothy one of my first jobs out of college was for an Insurance company. Everything you listed here they do. If the underwriter was having a bad day your claim was not getting approved. In the break room they would bring the most embarrassing claims and read them to the other employees. So my question is what is the difference if it is a government employee laughing at medical conditions or an employee of an insurance. There is no such thing as Dr-Patient confidentiality . It really is Dr-Insurance Company- Patient confidentiality.