Agreed, without him, who knows. In the same way Trump is the best general both Kim and Xi haveQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
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Agreed, without him, who knows. In the same way Trump is the best general both Kim and Xi haveQuote:
Originally Posted by Athos
And Vlad.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Yes let us not forget Vlad.
The dufus will submit his budget next week. What a great battle that should be.
He seems obscessed with the wall, wanting to rip money out of other programs to build the wall. Fancy wanting a legacy that is miles of rusting steel posts. He just cannot resolve the difference between rhetoric and reality. This will be know as the days of Donald the DestroyerQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Or, viewed another way, the legacy of a secure southern border.
The southern border emergency would be easily solved by a humane process that addresses people as humans and not some boogie man for right wing talking points for votes. The bigger more emergency problem is WHY they migrate in such great numbers[?'. Of course the loony right predicates this on a fear of scared desperate brown people, so their policies reflect that unchristian fear, and they rally around the unchristian path a lying cheating dufus guides them too.
You want security on the southern border? Seems you would cooperate with Mexico, and get a shared humane process. They may not pay for a big beautiful wall, but may just engage in humane food, water, shelter, and processing that benefits BOTH counties, and the flow of humans running from DEATH.
That's a start.
You are correct, the problem lies far to the south outside your borders and short of an invasion of central america all you can hope to do is force an orderly migration process and strangely enough a wall has been part of thinking on this for a long time. Instead of wanting Mexico to pay, Trump should have reversed the thought and helped Mexico to stem the flow, but NO! He instead tried to make things harder for Mexico by revising NAFTA.
Perhaps you should take a leaf out of someone else's book and create a greater American prosperity zone, so that prospertity doesn't just exist north of the Tropic
What are you suggesting?Quote:
The southern border emergency would be easily solved by a humane process that addresses people as humans and not some boogie man for right wing talking points for votes.
We had NAFTA and the river of illegal immigration just continued.Quote:
Perhaps you should take a leaf out of someone else's book and create a greater American prosperity zone, so that prospertity doesn't just exist north of the Tropic
Build the wall. It will work.
Yes because NAFTA didn't address a problem in any place but Mexico and was fairly limited attracting people to the border regions and they just kept going. They didn't understand the industries had moved south and didn't really employ many because of modern techniques. The point is; people aren't really needed in large numbers in a modern economy, but that message hasn't been preached.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Building a wall is just more socialist pump priming, great for the steel industry, great for border states employment for a while but very alienating in some places
OK. And where are the great majority of illegal immigrants coming from? Mexico.Quote:
Yes because NAFTA didn't address a problem in any place but Mexico
Besides all that, it is not our job to solve the problems of other nations. We send tens of billions of dollars to other nations in foreign aid only to be told we must do more. Build the wall. Protect the border and protect Americans first.
Socialist pump priming? That's a strange statement. It's the dems that are promoting socialism.
And build a wall on our northern border too. The flood of fentanyl and other opioids coming into the US is massive!Quote:
Build the wall. Protect the border and protect Americans first.
From the north?? I don't think so. Besides, I'm more concerned with the flood of illegal immigrants, and that is almost completely a southern border problem.
Yes, from Canada. It's a much worse invasion that what's supposedly crossing our southern border (mostly poor people seeking better jobs, e.g., harvesting our crops). China sends fentanyl to Canadian drug dealers who then push it into the US. Haven't you read about the growing opioid addiction in this country? Guess why it's growing....Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
So the answer to the Canada problem is to NOT build a southern wall? No, I don't think so. Let's stop the southern avalanche. We have a plan for that.
Besides, according to the link below, "Nearly all fentanyl sold on the streets of America enters the country through international mail. In early 2018, a Senate investigation discovered the government simply was not prepared to stop the influx of fentanyl from China. The report, which scrutinized six online fentanyl sellers, found that five operated in China; the location of one seller could not be established. These particular vendors mailed hundreds of packages of fentanyl to over 300 people in the U.S. relying on the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) to send millions of dollars’ worth of fentanyl overseas."
So how are you getting your Canada connection if most of it comes through U.S. mail??
https://fherehab.com/news/where-does-fentanyl-come-from
A wall won't stop that dope mail, nor stop migrants coming from central America lawfully, or unlawfully.
Well of course it won't stop the mail. No one has said it will. It will slow down the current river of illegal immigration to a mere trickle. I would be overjoyed with that.Quote:
A wall won't stop that dope mail, nor stop migrants coming from central America lawfully, or unlawfully.
And how does this address the millions already there?
Not without effectively addressing the ROOT cause of the so called migration issue, and the mitigating Mexican cooperation in that effort. Without those the border wall in the southern border is a huge waste of time and OUR money.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
No solution has been found yet, mostly because of the huge financially crippling logistical challenge finding people who have noo desire to be found, and have many friends, relatives and supporters on their side. I believe that those factors far outway the ones who think they need a gestapo squad to solve that issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
So surely the answer lies in amnesty and a path to citizenship, a one off you might say, so that you don't have to hunt down anyone but criminalsQuote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Yeah. We can reward those who came in illegally. That would be the right thing to do.Quote:
So surely the answer lies in amnesty and a path to citizenship, a one off you might say, so that you don't have to hunt down anyone but criminals
Amnesty and a green card, yes. Path to citizenship? No way.
Why, once they are legally contributing to the nation, you could place some limits on it, such as 10 years residency after a certain date, no convictions, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Not suggesting you reward them, just recognise the inevietable. Look, some want to legalise drugs to solve a problem, is this different? take away the angst and put resources to something more productive. Protecting the border instead of chasing illegals all over the country, no more need for sanctuarys
That could at least be a starting point for discussion. I'll grant you that. One thing is for sure is those people are not going to leave and we have no means to kick them out, so we need to come to some settlement. In the meantime, build the wall so we don't allow a big problem to become even bigger.Quote:
Why, once they are legally contributing to the nation, you could place some limits on it, such as 10 years residency after a certain date, no convictions, etc.
Yes but half your country doesn't believe in it or won't allow Trump to have any sort of victory, so time for Plan B.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Sometimes you have to think bigger to solve a problem, pay Mexico to police the border, they are never going to pay for a wall but changing the game might achieve the objective
I'm all for plan B so long as the "B" stands for Build the wall.
Plan A should have been a humane process for men women and children that is both comprehensive and efficient. God might be watching.
It's always easy to be humane and caring when you are using someone else's money.
We are using OUR money. Lawfully and legally collected as tax as per our Constitution by OUR government, feckless and incompetent though it may be.
Well, if you are talking about using OUR money, then I would prefer to use OUR money to build the wall. We are already spending all kinds of money for "humane" causes so let's spend some on what will work, which is a wall.
But it WON'T work!!!!!!!Quote:
let's spend some on what will work, which is a wall.
Well, walls work everywhere else, so I have no idea why we would not try this. It can't be any worse than what we are doing now.
Like where do they work?
Every prison in the world. Every gated community in America. The Vatican. The White House. The 75 miles currently on the southern border. Iran, Pakistan, India, Brunei, China, Thailand, Austria, Greece, and Hungary have all built or are building border walls.
Do they work perfectly? Of course not. Nothing does, but if someone escapes from jail, we don't just go in and tear down the walls.
Better question. Tell me where they DON'T work.
Where they DON'T work:
Every prison in the world.
Every gated community in America.
The Vatican.
The White House.
The 75 miles currently on the southern border.
Iran, Pakistan, India, Brunei, China, Thailand, Austria, Greece, and Hungary
The Great Wall of China
Hadrian's Wall in England
The Western Wall
The Berlin Wall
Etc.
WG, you can't be serious. To suggest that a wall does not work because the occasional person manages to breach it is on the level of saying I will no longer lock my front door at night because locked doors don't stop everyone. Nothing works all the time, but it is better to build a wall, if for no other reason, to at least make the enemy put out much greater effort to cross it, and thereby know that you will be, not perfectly safe, but much safer than you would have been otherwise.
We can have two plans for a prison. Plan A is to build a wall knowing that someone might get out. Plan B is to build no wall and know that EVERYONE will get out.
I think I'll go with Plan A.
You want your borderl to be 100% effective, you are going to have to kill someone. The idea of a wall is to avoid killing
so the idea is that if it is not 100% effective ,it should not be tried ? What a silly argument . I can assure you no one unauthorized crosses the Azerbaijan Baku border with Russia .
I surely hope you aren't. There are so many other, better ways to secure our southern border and control who tries to cross it. This is 2019, not the Middle Ages.Quote:
WG, you can't be serious.
I can't think of anything better than a wall.Quote:
I surely hope you aren't. There are so many other, better ways to secure our southern border and control who tries to cross it. This is 2019, not the Middle Ages.
Now if you had a short border and snow capped mountains your border may be more effective. I think it comes down to what happens to you if you are caughtQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
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