Maybe its just all lies and its working just fine right?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
UPDATED: Obamacare Poster Boy Chad Henderson and His Dad Didn't Really Buy Insurance - Reason.com
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Maybe its just all lies and its working just fine right?Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
UPDATED: Obamacare Poster Boy Chad Henderson and His Dad Didn't Really Buy Insurance - Reason.com
That he can shop and weigh his options is the goal since the deadline to actually enroll is December 15th to have coverage January 1st.
To shop you have to have an account, like many of the retail sites online, but I guess some will see the glass half empty no matter what.
Help me here (please). Why the screaming about increased costs because there will be more Medicaid coverage? Wouldn't that eventually become LESS of a drain on taxpayers as more and more uninsured poor (who used to hang out at the ER with Medicaid paying for ALL of the costs) now buy insurance? And yes, there will be Medicaid still working into that (depending on what choices the state made for funding the ACA), but wouldn't it be less than the full coverage it is now?
There you go wasting logic on the party of scream. Before they started hollering years ago, they were against paying for those lazy poor people who go to the emergency room.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Who exactly is going to be paying these HUGE medicaid increases... we already know Obamacare is going to cost more than triple what Obama promised (big surprise there)... and the CBO says it will bankrupt the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Oh right, those of us trying to put enough to retire on because SSI won't be there because its been going to people who never worked or paid much into the system... so the have nots expect to take what little we have left off us.
Maybe if they had worked harder and made better choices they would have more themselves.
And I've been paying more in SSI that won't be there to collect than I can set aside to survive on the last 34 years.
Why are they going to be huge?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Simply do the math... If you expand coverage then the costs have to expand at least that much.. though usually even more because of greater overhead. You can't double the number of covered people without at least doubling all the costs... if those people are all high cost and high risk... increase the costs by orders of magnitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Can't get something for nothing.
But that's not what that means.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
It does... you can't offer more to more people and NOT have it not cost a lot more. More people equals more payouts... you think all these newly covered people are going to NOT use it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Unless you make them all pay $20,000 annual deductibles.
Think of it this way --Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
NOW: 20 people have no health insurance. They all go to an ER. The cost is $100 (just to keep this simple). All end up getting the $100 charge paid by Medicare = $2000.
WITH ACA: Those 20 people are eligible for and apply for a health care plan from their states' marketplace, and are then covered. 10 of those people are able to pay the premiums out of pocket, but the other 10 are even poorer, can't pay the total premium out of pocket, but are qualified to receive additional assistance, so Medicaid steps in and pays part. Thus, Medicare costs will be a much less total payout for those 20 people.
Now, think of the savings when we consider 40+ million people who could end up in the ER under ACA as opposed to NOW.
Do you actually believe that's how it works?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Ever question WHY the prices are so much higher for everyone and the coverage is so much less than the non-socialized system? J_9 gave us her example.. and the Conservative media has been saying the same thing... you know the ones who haven't been covering for Obama's numerous screw ups all these years.
The people who worked harder to get ahead get screwed to pay for the people who coasted through life... and we do know most of the poor are the people who didn't work hard in school because it wasn't "Cool" to do... thus they never went to college and never got the better jobs... or were happy in their low paying jobs and didn't take the chances or work harder to take on responsibilities to get the better jobs... then start whining about how life isn't fair others earn more than they do. And expect to get the same thing at discounted prices at someone else's expense.
Besides if it was so wonderful... The Senate, The House... the SCOTUS and the White house as well as all the unions would be wanting this as well, and yet none of them want any part of it...
Yes. It will need tweaks, but yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Have you looked at the most current stats as to how many and who is on welfare and why? And who is getting Medicaid?
http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/
Here is an interesting read for you all. Written by a retired professor of constitutional law.
Quote:
Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional.
What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.
To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.
The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business,and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.
However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred,or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.
The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.
The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.
This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.
If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However , that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.
So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesn't stop there though.
The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;
The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.
I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution." If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.
For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the U.S. Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.
Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
According to snopes.com, he posted that on his blog in 2009 regarding a version of the bill that never passed Congress.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
snopes.com: Michael Connelly on the Constitutionality of Health Care Reform
WG, I am not sure if you are truly unaware of what is going on, or if you are putting on your counselor's hat and trying to play devil's advocate.
This is going to be a drain on the economy as a whole as well as the medical system.
Because of ACA, this week my hospital, a small rural hospital, lost 17 employees. They weren't fired, but had to resign due to new staffing criteria More patients, fewer nurses.
The ER lost 6 alone and there will be an increase in ER traffic as many doctors will not be taking the new required insurance. An ER visit costs a minimum of about $900 vs a $20 doctor visit. However, if the doctors won't take that insurance, the public has no alternative but to use the ER as a clinic.
We now have 7 patients to one nurse on the medical surgical floor. Depending on the acuity of the patients, other patients' needs may be ignored and medications may be missed.
While all of you are quoting media sources, I am walking, talking and breathing this. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I am on the front lines. The media isn't. I am. I'm seeing the changes almost daily.
Posting an over-four-year-old blog post of incorrect information doesn't help your case.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
And why are these staff people being laid off/fired? So far, there's no reason for it.
I talk with both Republicans and Dems in real life, read both pro and con. Tomorrow, I will call two friends, long involved in medicine and heavily involved in patient care, to find out what they think.
No, you are right. It doesn't and I admit I failed to research it prior to posting it. I'm human. I'm not perfect, and I admit that.
These people aren't being laid off, only a few were fired. 63 in my system were fired, 17 people quit.
Why? Because of the new staffing grid. 7 patients to one nurse when it used to be 3 patients to one nurse. They aren't getting their hours, they are disgusted with the neglect that the patients will be getting.
Vanderbilt University hospital let go of approximately 1,000 employees.
There is plenty of reason for it. Hospitals will not be reimbursed for certain procedures unless other procedures are conducted. Thus an increase in costs where the hospital cannot afford to pay employees.Quote:
And why are these staff people being laid off/fired? So far, there's no reason for it.
I'll give you another example. Linens. You laugh, but it's part and parcel to patient satisfaction. Beds are now being made with only a bottom sheet, a pillow and pillow case. When I bring a patient from L&D to postpartum, I am expected to bring her blankets with her. Bloody blankets. Any new blankets will now be charged to the patient's account. No sodas, only water. If she labored for 48 hours with nothing but ice chips, I can't give her a meal. Her significant other has to go out to get her something to eat. If they can afford it. Otherwise I take money out of my pocket to feed the starving mother.
My main point is that I am concerned about patient welfare. I am concerned about the care the get, or will not get, according to ACA.
You call your "friends" I'm sure you will disprove me on that too.
The ACA hasn't even taken effect yet. You'd think they would wait to see how the ACA shakes out before they panic and lay off or fire or quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
One is my GP who has been practicing for over 30 years, and the other is my pharmacist who has owned his pharmacy for probably as many years and has an excellent reputation in our community. I do not know either one's political leaning. I can also email my chiropractor who owns his own clinic, but is winding down toward retirement. All three are smart, well-read, and won't pull punches when I ask them what they think.Quote:
You call your "friends" I'm sure you will disprove me on that too.
Yes, but you don't know any nurses going through this. Do you? I'm sure you will pull one out of your sleeve though.
The ACA hasn't taken effect yet? Really? No, the official ACA hasn't taken effect, but the effects are being seen system wide.
I pray for you next time you are a hospital patient.
I'll ignore that.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Yes, actually I do know some nurses. One is in Seattle. Will email her tomorrow. Her husband is a member of this site.
My niece Heather who lives in a small town along the Mississippi in western Illinois is an RN. Will contact her too, if you'd accept her report.
And that might be real soon. I'll take notes. The hospital I would go to is complaining they don't have enough patients and are trying to drum up business. Maybe I can help.Quote:
I pray for you next time you are a hospital patient.
I'm biting my tongue here. That is a good thing for you.
WHAT is a good thing for me? Why bite your tongue?Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I'm not playing your counselor game WG. Just know that you are lucky I'm not saying what I think.
Just curious, what hospital is that? I have many Doctors in my family who work in the Chicago land area...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Counselor game? Nope, not that. I am not playing any games. I'm waiting for my husband to get back from NC where he went to visit his sister who has Alzheimer's (before she forgets who he is), and then we'll figure out what to do. I'll post on the admin/mod board if I won't be around for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I'm hoping they are still patient-hungry.
They just built a new one and are trying to fill it up. Elmhurst Memorial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma1999
***ADDED*** I visited many sick and dying relatives at the old hospital over the years, my uncle was a psych patient on that floor MANY times, my husband had two heart surgeries there, and I was a patient there three times. I have nothing but good to say about the staff (except for the aide who dropped my cup of pills on the floor and had to be told by the RN to get new ones).
There are lots of hospitals around here, so am anxious to find out how this works out with hospital care and patient-staff numbers.
Ahhh yes, they moved recently. I heard it was a beautiful building.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I grew up around a LOT of Welfare recipients... I don't need stats to tell me what I already know about people I knew for a lot of years... I know them well enough to know how they live... what they think... know their attitudes and even how they game the system... yes I knew them well enough I know all their secrets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Also my mother was working for the head start program back in the 70's... for a year or two before she got so disgusted with the entitlement mentality of the welfare bums she quit...
And incidentally... Wikipedia is very inaccurate with what they have on the beginnings of this program.
Byron York asked the big question, "Does the punishing way the Obama administration has run aspects of the shutdown reveal anything about how it will run national health care?"
Why yes, I think it says everything. I mean geez, the guy holds senior tourists hostage at gunpoint and otherwise is trying to inflict as much pain as possible rather than do his job and talk to the other side, so why wouldn't it reveal how they'll run Obamacare?
Which leads to the next point, I'm not sure if it works this way elsewhere but knowing how this regime cares nothing about our rights I'm sure it does.
Obamacare Will Collect and Share Americans' Data 'Without the Consent of the Individual'
When you sign up on the exchange in Maryland you have to agree to the terms of course, and after the usual long-winded stuff about collecting anonymous data, which apparently isn't going to be so anonymous, and promising not to violate your privacy you get this:
That isn't all, "if you send us an e-mail, we use the information you send us to respond to your inquiry. E-mail correspondence may become a public record. As a public record, your correspondence could be disclosed to other parties upon their request in accordance with Maryland’s Public Information Act."Quote:
Any information that you provide to us in your application will be used only to carry out the functions of Maryland Health Connection. The only exception to this policy is that we may share information provided in your application with the appropriate authorities for law enforcement and audit activities.
Excited yet?
Hello again, Steve:
Yes, it does.Quote:
Byron York asked the big question, "Does the punishing way the Obama administration has run aspects of the shutdown reveal anything about how it will run national health care?"
But FIRST you have to BELIEVE that Obama is DOING that. I don't. Not even for a minute do I believe it. That's because I live in the REAL world, and NOT the FOX News bubble..
It's like the boy who cried wolf, or chicken little. I can't remember... But, THIS stuff is brought to you by the same people who told us about the DEATH PANELS... Of course, that wasn't true, so WHY should I believe them now?? Well, I shouldn't... They LOST their credibility then, and they've NEVER gotten it back.
But, I have NEW evidence... Oh, it's only in my head, but my head is attached to the REAL WORLD... Let's take a minute to examine the mean park ranger who won't let vets into their own memorial. What about the mean ones who ones who won't let people take pictures of Mt. Rushmore, or Old Faithful? We're told by the right wing press, that it's their job to PUNISH us, and they ARE, WITH a vengeance - IF you believe it.
First off, IF I were a park ranger, I'd HAVE that job because I LIKED people. If I didn't LIKE people, I'd be a DEA agent. But, park rangers aren't bad guys. So, EVEN if ORDERS were given to me to be REAL MEAN to people and PUNISH them, I'd NEVER do it. And, I KNOW the park rangers aren't doing it either.
It's just MORE death panel crap.
Excon
Sort of like the emperor ginning up fears of a default that won't happen.Quote:
It's like the boy who cried wolf
Now are you denying that the emperor has run roughshod over the people during the shutdown to make a maximum hurt on them ? The evidence shows he has. No it's not the Park Rangers .They are doing what they are told to do... fining 59 year old joggers ;barring WWII Vets from open air monuments in the Mall while at the same time allowing illegal immigrants to rally on the Mall.
LOL, only a loony would think that lower funding levels will get the same services. Only a loony would think that shutting down 17% of the government would have no effect on REAL people.
Only a loony would think Obama Care would be repealed, delayed, or defunded with the threat of a shutdown. Only a loony would think that America would go along with it and 70% said as much.
Only a loony would think that less government spending during sluggish economic times wouldn't contract the economy. Only a loony would think that be it austerity, or sequester, that deficit reduction off the backs of poor people, old people women, and children is a good idea.
Only a loony thinks cutting welfare for poor people to give to rich people is a good idea. Only a loony thinks everybody will go along with his shutdown, and piece meal solutions as they appear I the "lamestream" media.
Only a loony would think he can blame everyone but himself for what he has done.
>Case closed< you guys are full of loony's.
So for the first time in history the NPS decided on its own to close open air monuments that are never closed, staff locations that are always unstaffed, and arm Rangers to prevent old people from seeing Old Faithful or taking pictures. That's not the REAL world ex, you're living in fantasyland.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
The regime had NOTHING to do with these things, and of course the buck NEVER stops at Obama's desk, even though we already have on record government employees admitting they've been told to make life as miserable as possible. Must be more of those rogue employees like at the IRS, which if that's true should have you spooked about how little control the emperor does have over his agencies.
P.S. I suppose the pictures and videos of the shutdown charade and links to the government sites telling you flat out you have to agree to give up your privacy to use it are liars, too.
Tell you what... take that $ billion spent to launch the Obamacare web site and reallocate it for something useful. The problem is that your side is so used to getting it's way that if those d@mn taxpayers won't give them everything they want ,they will use whatever means necessary to bludgeon them into submission. They justifed the IRS abuses because the "loonies" were a fringe that no one cares about their rights being violated . But as we now see ,even if a geezer Vet gets in the way they have to be taken down. Yeah it begs the question ......"Does the punishing way the Obama administration has run aspects of the shutdown (or the IRS ) reveal anything about how it will run national health care?"Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
You shut the government down, you open it backup!
Nobody shut down the national monuments on any of the previous government shutdowns.
So why do you think Obama did it? Maybe because he's never matured beyond being a petulant child.
A comment on a Yahoo News article --Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
"Government Shutdown Was Planned For Months By Ed Meese, Koch Bros (Heritage Foundation/Heritage Action)---- It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government."
Meet one of the conservative advocacy groups behind the GOP's government shutdown strategy
Except the fact... no republican has voted to shut anything down, we passed a number of bills that would have kept the government open to the Senate.. so that is 100% in the Democrtats ballpark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Prince Harry never let most of them even see the Senate floor... And King Obama Messiah of the left shares the blame.
Nothing would be shut down if not for those two... and they are Democrats. not Republicans.
And incidentally... Obama isn't the Messiah... and its not blasphemy to not do everything he demands.
I think don't understand why the rightys consider him a messiah... he's just a man.Quote:
And King Obama Messiah
I don't even think he's a man... more like a man-child by the way he behaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
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