Ava Isabella Stinson was born last week at St. Joseph's hospital in Hamilton, Ontario. Weighing only two pounds, she was born 13 weeks premature.Without immediate care should would be dead today. There was no time to wait on Canada's waiting list for admittance into a neonatal intensive care unit... nor were there any other hospitals in the Province she could be admitted into. Hamilton's unit is closed to new admissions half the time. Special needs infants are usually sent to the U.S.for care She was transported to a Buffalo NY hospital to suffer under our sub-par system.

TheSpec.com - Local - Parents separated from ill preemie

You make a good point that people are overlooking, while the talk is centered around providing "health care" it's really about insurance. That's why I keep asking everyone that claims people go without health care just exactly who does? Anyone can get health care in this country, the beef is actually centered on people without health insurance and the ultimate goal is single payer 'insurance' with the government in complete control of our health care. Am I right?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

You make a good point that people are overlooking, while the talk is centered around providing "health care" it's really about insurance. That's why I keep asking everyone that claims people go without health care just exactly who does? Anyone can get health care in this country, the beef is actually centered on people without health insurance and the ultimate goal is single payer 'insurance' with the government in complete control of our health care. Am I right?

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You are absolutely right, and I am as adamantly opposed to a health insurance plan of any sort, single payer or otherwise. I do, however, disagree with you that anyone can get health care in this country. If they are critical, they might be able to get health care if they show up to an emergency room, but we don't have enough providers per capita to insure everyone can get health care. The reason I say they might is that there are trauma centers in this country, such as Parkland in Dallas, where people are triaged based on how critical their need for care. I am sure some have died waiting for others ahead of them.

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Originally Posted by amdeist

You are absolutely right, and I am as adamantly opposed to a health insurance plan of any sort, single payer or otherwise. I do, however, disagree with you that anyone can get health care in this country. If they are critical, they might be able to get health care if they show up to an emergency room, but we don't have enough providers per capita to insure everyone can get health care. The reason I say they might is that there are trauma centers in this country, such as Parkland in Dallas, where people are triaged based on how critical their need for care. I am sure some have died waiting for others ahead of them.

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Everyone that shows up in an ER in Texas gets health care. It's the law here. Is it the best system? No, as evidenced by the number of people in ER's with a cold, but no one gets turned away. Triage is a fact of life in any case.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

Ava Isabella Stinson was born last week at St. Joseph's hospital in Hamilton, Ontario. Weighing only two pounds, she was born 13 weeks premature.Without immediate care should would be dead today. There was no time to wait on Canada's waiting list for admittance into a neonatal intensive care unit....nor were there any other hospitals in the Province she could be admitted into. Hamilton's unit is closed to new admissions half the time. Special needs infants are usually sent to the U.S.for care She was transported to a Buffalo NY hospital to suffer under our sub-par system.

TheSpec.com - Local - Parents separated from ill preemie

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You people make me sick. The little thing is now happily reunited with her parents and doing well, thanks to the hospital south of the border. So what the heck is your point. You latch on to one instance, and the Canadian side did all they could to find, hone onto and transport that baby to a hospital on your side who could care for her properly because she was so absolutely tiny.. OHIP will cover the baby's care, transport, neonatal and all. So, what is your point? Our health care system will cover the pediatric care for this infant, an astronomical fee, given the exchange rate of l5 cents on the dollar, by today's standards and the parents need not worry about anything other then seeing her, feeling her and loving her.

Can you say, in this instance, that a similar situation would be paid for under your non existent system?

All was done for the baby and will be done AND PAID FOR

Get a life and stop complaining and finding fault.

Tick

Nope. We don't want it in America. The government has no place sticking its nose in our health care system. As it is, the government already has its fingers in too many places where it shouldn't.

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Originally Posted by s_cianci

Nope. We don't want it in America. The government has no place sticking its nose in our health care system. As it is, the government already has its fingers in too many places where it shouldn't.

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I agree with you, I've seen what your government does and it shouldn't be in charge of much.

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Originally Posted by s_cianci

Nope. We don't want it in America. The government has no place sticking its nose in our health care system. As it is, the government already has its fingers in too many places where it shouldn't.

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Speak for yourself! I'm totally with tick and the Canadian way.:mad:

The truth is revealing isn't it ? What I posted isn't an isolated incident but a common occurrence. Yeah we pay a price I guess .But there is no scarcity of needed service here. Here the exception is people who's care is inadequate .That can be addressed.

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The truth is revealing aint it ? .

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Hello tom:

Look. I'm an easy guy. I want the truth, but it's difficult to see it behind all the BS. I hate the government. I don't want 'em to run anything... But, we've got some Canadians here, and they LIKE their system. I don't think they're liars. In fact, I think they know THEIR system better than you do. So, until I hear ONE of 'em mirror what you've said, I'm going to believe ''em.

That's just me.

excon

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The truth is revealing aint it ? What I posted isn't an isolated incident but a common occurance. Yeah we pay a price I guess .But there is no scarcity of needed service here. Here the exception is people who's care is inadequate .That can be addressed.

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I think its great that the originating hospital found an adequate way to deal with the small baby which had the correct facilities. I don't have a problem with that. I don't know if it's a common occurrence, or not, I can only read the papers as you do and I read this to in the Toronto Star a few days ago. I read also noted that the parents were not allowed to go with their babyacross the US border because they didn't have passports. I don't think any Canadian here has taken issue with that aspect of an emergency situation gone wrong.

My point is tomder55, her very expensive hospital care will be completely covered by OHIP while she is there, they also covered expensive transportation to the hospital. Her parents will not have to foot the bill which would probably bankrupt them if they tried.

Tick

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Originally Posted by tickle

I think its great that the originating hospital found an adequate way to deal with the small baby which had the correct facilities. I dont have a problem with that. I dont know if its a common occurrence, or not, I can only read the papers as you do and I read this to in the Toronto Star a few days ago. I read also noted that the parents were not allowed to go with their babyacross the US border because they didnt have passports. I dont think any Canadian here has taken issue with that aspect of an emergency situation gone wrong.

My point is tomder55, her very expensive hospital care will be completely covered by OHIP while she is there, they also covered expensive transportation to the hospital. Her parents will not have to foot the bill which would probably bankrupt them if they tried.

tick

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And I believe no one should have to go bankrupt to pay for their health care. And to those of you that say it's the law for the US to provide health care regardless of ability to pay. Well that may be true AFTER everything you have is gone. You may get well, but you've got nothing else. Comforting huh?

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Originally Posted by cozyk

And I believe no one should have to go bankrupt to pay for their health care. And to those of you that say it's the law for the US to provide health care regardless of ability to pay. Well that may be true AFTER everything you have is gone. You may get well, but you've got nothing else. Comforting huh?

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We’ve already been down that road, my daughter had nothing to begin with and she received excellent care from ICU staff, private practice internists, nephrologists, pulmonologists and one hell of a gynecological oncologist. Maybe your state sucks but in Texas NO ONE is turned away REGARDLESS of financial status, it’s the law. I know firsthand that our private hospital, consistently named one of the best in the nation, will work with those who can’t afford to pay their bill and will either discount it according to ability to pay and circumstances or just write it off. All you have to do is ask.

If there’s a problem it’s in places like where Michelle Obama and crew were busy dumping poor patients on other hospitals.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

And I believe no one should have to go bankrupt to pay for their health care. And to those of you that say it's the law for the US to provide health care regardless of ability to pay. Well that may be true AFTER everything you have is gone. You may get well, but you've got nothing else. Comforting huh?

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Medicare and Medicaid are designed for those who are low/no-income, or are disabled and unable to afford health insurance. If anyone is going bankrupt because of medical bills, it is because Medicare and Medicaid have failed, not the private health care system. The failure is in the GOVERNMENT-RUN SYSTEM not the insurance companies.

So your solution is to make more of the government-run system that has failed these people in the first place, and extend it to everyone...

Brilliant. Let's do something that already doesn't work... but more of it. That'll fix it.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

If anyone is going bankrupt because of medical bills, it is because Medicare and Medicaid have failed, not the private health care system. The failure is in the GOVERNMENT-RUN SYSTEM not the insurance companies.

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Oh really?

Medical Bills Prompt More Than 60% of U.S. Bankruptcies - Health News - Health.com

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This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60% of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills. Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50% in a six-year period, from 46% in 2001 to 62% in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

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NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Costs

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A recent study by Harvard University researchers found that the average out-of-pocket medical debt for those who filed for bankruptcy was $12,000. The study noted that 68 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. In addition, the study found that 50 percent of all bankruptcy filings were partly the result of medical expenses.9 Every 30 seconds in the United States someone files for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious health problem.

• A new survey shows that more than 25 percent said that housing problems resulted from medical debt, including the inability to make rent or mortgage payments and the development of bad credit ratings.10
• About 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

We’ve already been down that road, my daughter had nothing to begin with and she received excellent care from ICU staff, private practice internists, nephrologists, pulmonologists and one hell of a gynecological oncologist. Maybe your state sucks but in Texas NO ONE is turned away REGARDLESS of financial status, it’s the law. I know firsthand that our private hospital, consistently named one of the best in the nation, will work with those who can’t afford to pay their bill and will either discount it according to ability to pay and circumstances or just write it off. All you have to do is ask.

If there’s a problem it’s in places like where Michelle Obama and crew were busy dumping poor patients on other hospitals.

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If you have nothing to begin with, like your daughter, you are in better shape than if you have "some" to begin. The "some" will be taken, before the hospital will not be paid.

There is A WHOLE LOT of personal loss that will occur BEFORE you get the freebie. I've never heard anyone go to the ER, the doctor's office, or into the hospital say this. " Listen doc, I have some money but it has tags attached to it such as food, shelter, transportation, day care so I can work, etc. I could pay you or fall short on those other things. So... could you just write off this inflated charge so I can be well AND have money to pay for my other living expenses?" I've "asked" as you say. This does not have to be major medical stuff. This can be a regular dr. visit that still puts them in a position to weigh their costs vs. suffering.. I've avoided med treatments in the past, waited out my illness, etc. because even though I could pay, I thought I should reserve the money for when my kids were sick or my car had a problem, etc..

You keep addressing the most dire cases, such as your daughter. There is a lot of gray area that you don't address.

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Originally Posted by cozyk

If you have nothing to begin with, like your daughter, you are in better shape than if you have "some" to begin. The "some" will be taken, before the hospital will not be paid.

There is A WHOLE LOT of personal loss that will occur BEFORE you get the freebie. I've never heard anyone go to the ER, the doctor's office, or into the hospital say this. " Listen doc, I have some money but it has tags attached to it such as food, shelter, transportation, day care so I can work, etc. I could pay you or fall short on those other things. So... could you just write off this inflated charge so I can be well AND have money to pay for my other living expenses?" I've "asked" as you say. This does not have to be major medical stuff. This can be a regular dr. visit that still puts them in a position to weigh their costs vs. suffering.. I've avoided med treatments in the past,, waited out my illness, etc. because even though I could pay, I thought I should reserve the money for when my kids were sick or my car had a problem, etc..

You keep addressing the most dire cases, such as your daughter. There is a lot of gray area that you don't address.

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Cozy, it must suck where you live because it's exactly as I said here. I've said all along that changes would be good, but I know first hand about those with nothing (my daughter) and those with something, me. I speak from plenty of experience with medical bills, I'm not wealthy, not even remotely close - yet I've managed to maintain insurance coverage, stay in my home, make my car payments, watch satellite TV, take vacations, buy Christmas gifts AND pay over $30,000 out of pocket in medical bills the past few years during which my wife was out of work 3 times plus being off for 3 months after neck surgery. If I can do it then so can others.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

...watch satellite TV, take vacations, buy Christmas gifts AND pay over $30,000 out of pocket in medical bills... If I can do it then so can others.

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I guess that's the cultural difference that we'll never settle here. As a staunch conservative you believe that since you did it then everyone else should be able to afford it as well whereas a Canadian thinks that all should have equal access to healthcare no matter what station of life they are at.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

cozy, it must suck where you live because it's exactly as I said here. I've said all along that changes would be good, but I know first hand about those with nothing (my daughter) and those with something, me. I speak from plenty of experience with medical bills, I'm not wealthy, not even remotely close - yet I've managed to maintain insurance coverage, stay in my home, make my car payments, watch satellite TV, take vacations, buy Christmas gifts AND pay over $30,000 out of pocket in medical bills the past few years during which my wife was out of work 3 times plus being off for 3 months after neck surgery. If I can do it then so can others.

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I've lived in SC, NC, Kansas, Virginia, Pennslyvania, and Georgia. They must all suck then.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I guess that's the cultural difference that we'll never settle here. As a staunch conservative you believe that since you did it then everyone else should be able to afford it as well whereas a Canadian thinks that all should have equal access to healthcare no matter what station of life they are at.

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NK, I have repeatedly acknowledged (as in the last post) that we could use some improvements. I Just don't believe our government should be the provider of health care, I'm not moved by these specious claims people can't get health care in this country, and it's a damn lie that health care providers won't work with people to pay their bills... many if not most of whom gotten themselves in deep financial waters all on their own. Besides the potential for disaster which has been demonstrated in other countries, it will be a bad thing to make Americans even more dependent on government for their needs instead of doing more to get them out the entitlement cycle. I work, I pay my bills and I believe every American that can needs to do the same instead of making me do it for them.

And I've agreed that *your* government should indeed not be the provider of healthcare. That leaves you guys in a precarious position.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Oh really?

Medical Bills Prompt More Than 60% of U.S. Bankruptcies - Health News - Health.com


NCHC | Facts About Healthcare - Health Insurance Costs

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NK, you have again missed the point.

Let's assume that every single one of those people did indeed go bankrupt because of medical expenses.

Every one of those people (or the vast majority of them) were supposed to be elligible for Medicare or Medicaid. If they were going bankrupt due to their medical bills, the GOVERNMENT was supposed to have stepped in to help them. That is what Medicare and Medicaid are there for. That is their purpose.

So if Medicare and Medicaid failed for all those people, and I don't doubt that it did, what makes you think that a bigger government system that encompasses 300 million people is going to do a better job of covering people than the smaller system with fewer people to cover does now? What makes you think that if we make the government system that failed these people even bigger and force more people into the system it will make things better and not worse.

Repeating the failures of the current system on a larger scale is NOT going to make fewer failures. It's going to make more of them.

The failures of the government-run Medicare and Medicaid systems that were supposed to help those most in need are what caused these people to go bankrupt in the first place. Why would anyone trust the systems responsible for such failures with even more responsibilities?

Elliot

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

And I've agreed that *your* government should indeed not be the provider of healthcare. That leaves you guys in a precarious position.

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Not at all.

Again, the issue is with 3% of the people of the United States who are uninsured through no fault of their own for an extended period (more than 4 months) and are here legally.

Do you really think we can't find a way to take care of 3% of our population without destroying the best healthcare system in the world to do it?

Yes, we need to take care of these people. I have never denied that. What I have said is that we don't need to destroy the entire medical system in the USA to do it. What I have also said is that it is not the major disaster that the Obama administration would have you think it was. To listen to them, EVERYONE is about to go bankrupt because of the greedy insurance companies, doctors, hospitals and pharma companies. That is NOT the case.

Leaving aside charitable foundations that help people who need medical help (and there are plenty of them), there are plenty of free clinics. Hospitals already take care of these people if they are in need, with no charge. Pharmaceutical companies give away free or below-market-price drugs to those in need. These programs can be expanded on without government interference and without dismantling the healthcare system. We CAN cover these people and we don't need to create nationalized healthcare to do it.

Elliot

From your postings it looks like you guys have a kickass system. Congrats.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

From your postings it looks like you guys have a kickass system. Congrats.

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:D:D:DThat is funny. I love it.

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

it is not the major disaster that the Obama administration would have you think it was. To listen to them, EVERYONE is about to go bankrupt because of the greedy insurance companies, doctors, hospitals and pharma companies. That is NOT the case.

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Exactly, and it is exactly as they're doing with climate change - deliberately avoiding an honest debate and playing on fears and emotions in order to enact an agenda. These people don't give a horse's a$$ about your health care, they want the power, they want to soothe their self-serving consciences and stroke their already over-inflated egos.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

From your postings it looks like you guys have a kickass system. Congrats.

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As long as you have Canadians coming here for health care and your private practices are booming under your nationalized plan, I'd be a hell of a lot less brave about mocking us if I were you.

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

To listen to them, EVERYONE is about to go bankrupt because of the greedy insurance companies, doctors, hospitals and pharma companies. That is NOT the case.

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Did I say "everyone"? No, you did. And the stats don't come from Obama, people are indeed going bankrupt:

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A recent study by Harvard University researchers found that the average out-of-pocket medical debt for those who filed for bankruptcy was $12,000. The study noted that 68 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy had health insurance. In addition, the study found that 50 percent of all bankruptcy filings were partly the result of medical expenses.9 Every 30 seconds in the United States someone files for bankruptcy in the aftermath of a serious health problem.
A new survey shows that more than 25 percent said that housing problems resulted from medical debt, including the inability to make rent or mortgage payments and the development of bad credit ratings.10
About 1.5 million families lose their homes to foreclosure every year due to unaffordable medical costs. 11

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Overall, three-quarters of the people with a medically related bankruptcy had health insurance, they say.
“That was actually the predominant problem in patients in our study—78% of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services,” says Dr. Woolhandler. “Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance.”

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

As long as you have Canadians coming here for health care and your private practices are booming under your nationalized plan, I'd be a hell of a lot less brave about mocking us if I were you.

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I was congratulating you on having one of the best health care systems in the world.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I was congratulating you on having one of the best health care systems in the world.

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Right, there was no sarcasm there at all, ask cozyk.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

From your postings it looks like you guys have a kickass system. Congrats.

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EXACTLY!! We do have a kickass system, and there is no reason to change what works. That's my point. In fact, that is exactly the point of every conservative on this thread.

Glad you finally got the point.

Elliot

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Originally Posted by cozyk

:D:D:DThat is funny. I love it.

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Yes, me too ROFL

Tick(led) pink

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

As long as you have Canadians coming here for health care and your private practices are booming under your nationalized plan, I'd be a hell of a lot less brave about mocking us if I were you.

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I almost wish this thread was closed because everyone here goes around in circles. Anyway, the only Canadians that go down your side are the ones who can afford to do so for medical procedures and don't want to wait because they will miss their trip to Europe or whatever. . OHIP is dead against covering medical expenses in the US, unless of course it is a case similar to the preemie that had to go down for medical assistance. Our seniors who used to spend 6 months out of the year in Florida, had lovely homes, can't afford to be there now because if they have major health issues, nothing is covered, i.e. if they have strokes, heart attacks insurance is just too expensive to come by for even a minimal stay in a US hospital. So they stay home.

Maybe it is so easy to get beds in the US because no one can afford to be in them and choose to suffer needlessly in their homes and die in bed never having had proper medical care. Gangrene from diabetes must be running rampant in the US. And gosh, how do they afford their meds, at the moment, being over 65 mine are $6.11 through OHIPand will continue to be until I pass away at a ripe old age of 95 to l00 being entirely well taken care of by my doctors and hospital and Personal Support Workers coming into my own to attend me, also paid by OHIP. Alas, my job is so hard being a certified Personal Support Worker and registered Nursing Assistant, doing just this type of work.

Sorry, am I rubbing the wound raw here:cool:

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Originally Posted by tomder55

The truth is revealing aint it ? What I posted isn't an isolated incident but a common occurance. Yeah we pay a price I guess .But there is no scarcity of needed service here. Here the exception is people who's care is inadequate .That can be addressed.

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Yet Canadians have a longer life expectancy than the Americans...

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

EXACTLY!!! We do have a kickass system, and there is no reason to change what works. That's my point. In fact, that is exactly the point of every conservative on this thread.

Glad you finally got the point.

Elliot

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We have a kickass system?? :D:D:D: No need to change what works?? :D:D:D: ROFLMAF

If military healthcare is anything like what a government-run system would be, then allow me to comment... On one hand, the system is pretty efficient-call in the AM for a same-day appointment, no waiting months for an appointment-see the Dr and if a referral is needed for a service, you walk down the hall of the hospital and go get your x-ray or whatever you need-your prescription is transferred directly from a computer in the physicians room to the pharmacy across the hall, you pick it up and leave the hospital without paying a dime. If they don't offer the service you need, you are referred somewhere that does without having to worry about the cost.

The bad stuff... you are a number. You are not treated like a human being, rather more like a burden, "how can we get you out of here as cheaply as possible?"... there is a lot of ignoring of symptoms, as in "maybe if we send you home with Motrin and tell you to drink water, it'll go away and we won't have to do any tests or give you any GOOD medicine"... no offense, but the Dr's are just not very good. They don't have to be! They're going to get paid the same whether they're an awesome Dr or whether they misdiagnose people left and right... there's no incentive to excel, no incentive to even just be compassionate and human.

I have had private insurance for a while now, and while I can see my GREAT Dr, I can't get some of the tests he wants me to do (I need an MRI... not life-threatining, just necessary). I can't afford the co-pay. But I can't qualify for any help either. There's no "free clinic" for MRI's...

I don't think I really said anything here, sorry... just relating my personal experiences. I personally think that there needs to be some kind of change absolutely, but I am not in favor of government-run healthcare. There needs to be some kind of middle-ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amdeist

Private practice will boom in United States as well if we institute National Health Insurance. What is amazing, though, is that Americans look at Canada or England to justify why Universal Health Care doesn't work. What about Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and other Western Nations that have national health care? I just wrote Senator Bill Nelson about National Health Insurance. Americans don't need health insurance. They need health care. excellent point

A health insurance based system will breed the same capitalist problems as did our financial system. Fraud, greed, lawsuits, overspending on technolgoy, etc. A system like the military and VA eliminates almost all of the excess costs. The government controls labor costs, material costs, licensure of providers, claims, lawsuits, etc. I spent 20years as a recipient of military health care and 12 years working in the system, and yes, there are complaints, but look at the $1.5 Billion in lawsuits in the civilian sector.
ERISA laws greatly reduce the ability to sue the government for malpractice Any system that motivates greed will not only increase costs, but lower quality!

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When the majority of congress people, the justice department, and the president himself get their healthcare strictly through the VA or medicaid - then they can vote on a government run healthcare system. Until then it is just hot air.

Illinois Medical Malpractice Blog: Illinois Senators demand answers from Marion VA Hospital

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In July 2006, Jose Veizaga-Mendez had to surrender his license to practice medicine in the state of Massachusetts. A state regulatory board had investigated Veizaga-Mendez and found that he had provided unacceptable care to seven patients. Then, Veizaga-Mendez made his way to Illinois and was hired as a surgeon by a VA hospital in Southern Illinois. At that point, the VA hospital experienced a sudden increase in post-surgical deaths. Although Veizaga-Mendez has since resigned, Senators Obama and Durbin have written a letter

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When the government controls "labor costs" then it will be hard to have qualified doctors work under that system or expect future debt laden medical students and residents work under that system. The above is a foreshadowing of government healthcare. Note that this occurred under Obama's watch.






G&P

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Originally Posted by cozyk

We have a kickass system??? :D:D:D: No need to change what works???:D:D:D: ROFLMAF

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We do have a kickass system, and the proof is in our patient outcomes. Our patients live longer. Cancer patients have lower levels of recurrence. We have fewer cases of patients suffering from infections caused by the hospitals. Overall, we have better outcomes than any other system in the world on a statistical basis.

And there is no need to change what works in order to fix what doesn't. I grant you that there are about 10-15 million people who need better coverage. But that doesn't mean we need to screw around with what works for the other 285 million of us. Fix what's broken, don't change what isn't.

What part of that is funny to you?

I think you've lost it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by passmeby

If military healthcare is anything like what a government-run system would be, then allow me to comment......On one hand, the system is pretty efficient-call in the AM for a same-day appointment, no waiting months for an appointment-see the Dr and if a referral is needed for a service, you walk down the hall of the hospital and go get your x-ray or whatever you need-your prescription is transfered directly from a computer in the physicians room to the pharmacy across the hall, you pick it up and leave the hospital without paying a dime. If they don't offer the service you need, you are referred somewhere that does without having to worry about the cost.

The bad stuff.....you are a number. You are not treated like a human being, rather more like a burden, "how can we get you out of here as cheaply as possible?".....there is a lot of ignoring of symptoms, as in "maybe if we send you home with Motrin and tell you to drink water, it'll go away and we won't have to do any tests or give you any GOOD medicine".......no offense, but the Dr's are just not very good. They don't have to be!! They're gonna get paid the same whether they're an awesome Dr or whether they misdiagnose people left and right....there's no incentive to excell, no incentive to even just be compassionate and human.

I have had private insurance for a while now, and while I can see my GREAT Dr, I can't get some of the tests he wants me to do (I need an MRI....not life-threatining, just necessary). I can't afford the co-pay. But I can't qualify for any help either. There's no "free clinic" for MRI's......

I don't think I really said anything here, sorry....just relating my personal experiences. I personally think that there needs to be some kind of change absolutely, but I am not in favor of government-run healthcare. There needs to be some kind of middle-ground.

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First of all, you said quite a bit here. You, a person who has experience with both private and government-run health care have given us your personal experience and explained it perfectly. Thank you for your post.

That said, you mentioned the need for an MRI. Does that mean that the VA isn't covering the cost of the MRI? Also, are you inelligible for Medicare or Medicaid? Medicare should cover you based on a means test, and Medicaid if you are either over a certain age or are disabled. Are you inelligible for these?

If you are inelligible for an MRI through Medicare, Medicaid and the VA system, what does this say about government-run medical coverage specifically designed to close the gaps left by your private insurance?

Yours is a case that specifically proves my point.

Again, I thank you for your post.

Elliot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ETWolverine

We do have a kickass system, and the proof is in our patient outcomes. Our patients live longer. Cancer patients have lower levels of recurrence. We have fewer cases of patients suffering from infections caused by the hospitals. Overall, we have better outcomes than any other system in the world on a statistical basis.

And there is no need to change what works in order to fix what doesn't. I grant you that there are about 10-15 million people who need better coverage. But that doesn't mean we need to screw around with what works for the other 285 million of us. Fix what's broken, don't change what isn't.

What part of that is funny to you?

I think you've lost it.

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Sorry, can't help it. Still laughing.:D:D:D