Ask Me Help Desk - Poor Uncle Joe

Quote:

And how ruffled your male feathers would be if women demanded a ring AND marriage before allowing sex.

Exactly what my wife and I did. Didn't ruffle my feathers at all. Again, you just make it up as you go along. Amazing your lack of conviction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Maybe we ... don't want to see them having to raise a child, or children, alone. But it actually worked amazingly well until the 1960's. Out of wedlock birth rates were single digit back then.

That's because of all the back-alley and granny- or auntie-induced abortions back then. You apparently didn't get out much during the early '60s and before. Unmarried pregnancy used to be a shameful thing, but that changed during the '70s and forward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Exactly what my wife and I did. Didn't ruffle my feathers at all. Again, you just make it up as you go along. Amazing your lack of conviction.

And I could name many who didn't. Glad you kept your feathers slicked down. :) Lack of conviction? So you have decided insulting and shaming me will shut me up? Great fundie Christianity at work!

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

How long has the religious type been imploring no sex outside of wedlock? How well has it worked? What enforcement of such a position do you propose?

What should be done after the deed is done?

Excellent questions!

Is there a reason you have ducked this question every time its asked?

What should be done after the deed is done?

Quote:

What should be done after the deed is done?

Complicated question. Ideally, I would say that since this woman did not ask the taxpayer's advice prior to becoming pregnant, then she should not ask for the taxpayer's help after becoming pregnant. But I would be open to continuing the current welfare system, brought about by the utter refusal of people like Tal and WG to take a simple stand in favor of protecting women and children from single parent hardship, so long as it was set to no longer be in effect beginning in twelve months. The taxpayer should not be on the hook for decisions he/she had no input on.

Now personally and individually I would be glad to help out a single mom in need, but I do not favor forcing my morality on other Americans like you want to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I would be open to . . . take a simple stand in favor of protecting women and children from single parent hardship

Better would be he doesn't ask. Then she doesn't have to say no.

Quote:

so long as it was set to no longer be in effect beginning in twelve months.

Then what?

Quote:

The taxpayer should not be on the hook for decisions he/she had no input on.

We taxpayers are on the hook for a lot of things we had no input on.

Quote:

do not favor forcing my morality on other Americans

So, according to your morality, women have to say no, but not men....

Quote:

So, according to your morality, women have to say no, but not men....

Learn how to read. It will benefit you greatly. Work especially on comprehension. Maybe you'll remember that I'm not the one having a problem taking a stand. That would be you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Learn how to read. It will benefit you greatly. Work especially on comprehension. Maybe you'll remember that I'm not the one having a problem taking a stand. That would be you.

Again, all you have in your pocket is shaming and insults.

Quote:

So, according to your morality, women have to say no, but not men.

It is the woman who has the option of saying No, and so should be responsible for outcomes in their own body and life. The point is, it is not necessary to have sexual relationships, there is no moral imperative to do so, but men shouldn't have to be responsible to make decisions for both

The problem might be solved by fining both for an unwanted pregnancy

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

It is the woman who has the option of saying No, and so should be responsible for outcomes in their own body and life.

Then be a woman (you don't even have to be pretty) and find out for yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Complicated question. Ideally, I would say that since this woman did not ask the taxpayer's advice prior to becoming pregnant, then she should not ask for the taxpayer's help after becoming pregnant. But I would be open to continuing the current welfare system, brought about by the utter refusal of people like Tal and WG to take a simple stand in favor of protecting women and children from single parent hardship, so long as it was set to no longer be in effect beginning in twelve months. The taxpayer should not be on the hook for decisions he/she had no input on.

Now personally and individually I would be glad to help out a single mom in need, but I do not favor forcing my morality on other Americans like you want to do.

I know many single parents and they are doing rather well considering where they came from, but thanks for answering the question. The good news is the law both federal and state is clear on administering this social safety net already, so I will decline your offer to stand with you in demanding women just say no to sex before and outside of marriage, as well as men. While I respect your position, you want the law changed you know how to do that so stop blaming me and WG for your issues with that law.

Quote:

so I will decline your offer to stand with you in demanding women just say no to sex before and outside of marriage, as well as men.

I didn't say we would "demand" anything or put it into law. Just join together to raise a standard of sensible behavior. I'm genuinely amazed that you would decline such an offer. I guess it's easier to force your morality on other Americans by using our tax money to support these single moms who should never have become a single mom to begin with, and might not have done so if more Americans (like you) would object to reckless sexual behavior. I never cease to be surprised at how so many liberals will refuse even the most sensible idea imaginable lest someone might accuse them of having become a conservative. So we'll just let these poor women continue to diminish the quality of their own lives as well as their children's lives. In the meantime, we can amuse ourselves with endless platitudes about the need for men to control themselves, which is of course true, but all the while choosing to ignore the fundamental truth that men don't get pregnant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I didn't say we would "demand" anything or put it into law. Just join together to raise a standard of sensible behavior. I'm genuinely amazed that you would decline such an offer. I guess it's easier to force your morality on other Americans by using our tax money to support these single moms who should never have become a single mom to begin with, and might not have done so if more Americans (like you) would object to reckless sexual behavior. I never cease to be surprised at how so many liberals will refuse even the most sensible idea imaginable lest someone might accuse them of having become a conservative. So we'll just let these poor women continue to diminish the quality of their own lives as well as their children's lives. In the meantime, we can amuse ourselves with endless platitudes about the need for men to control themselves, which is of course true, but all the while choosing to ignore the fundamental truth that men don't get pregnant.

There is nothing else for it bring back the chastity belt and lock them in

Quote:

Originally Posted by paraclete

There is nothing else for it bring back the chastity belt and lock them in

Oooooh, and then the men will get REALLY mad when all their cooing and cajoling go nowhere!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I didn't say we would "demand" anything or put it into law. Just join together to raise a standard of sensible behavior. I'm genuinely amazed that you would decline such an offer. I guess it's easier to force your morality on other Americans by using our tax money to support these single moms who should never have become a single mom to begin with, and might not have done so if more Americans (like you) would object to reckless sexual behavior. I never cease to be surprised at how so many liberals will refuse even the most sensible idea imaginable lest someone might accuse them of having become a conservative. So we'll just let these poor women continue to diminish the quality of their own lives as well as their children's lives. In the meantime, we can amuse ourselves with endless platitudes about the need for men to control themselves, which is of course true, but all the while choosing to ignore the fundamental truth that men don't get pregnant.

Women don't have to either. They have other options other than the ONE you present. The rest of your post I just don't buy into, and has NOTHING to do with political persuasion.

Yes, they have other options. However, the one you advocate for is to get other people to pay for their decisions. I don't want to be forced by Tal (and other liberals) to pay for a decision in which I had no part. Now if you want to be forced to pay for it, then go for it, but I would bet that is not the case.

Quote:

Unmarried pregnancy used to be a shameful thing, but that changed during the '70s and forward.

The shame inﬂicted on unwed mothers was designed to support marriage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Yes, they have other options. However, the one you advocate for is to get other people to pay for their decisions. I don't want to be forced by Tal (and other liberals) to pay for a decision in which I had no part. Now if you want to be forced to pay for it, then go for it, but I would bet that is not the case.

No the one I advocate for is to see her doctor/OGY/GYN ASAP. Like the knowledgeable well insured middle class counterpart, who doesn't let you in her business, nor gives a rats patoot about YOUR religious moral judgements. That only leaves the poorer less educated female to judge and bully. If you ever have read my posts in other forums abstinence is my first choice for unwanted pregnancies that is 100% guaranteed to work. Women have gotten pregnant using one and two forms of birth control. You would know that if you weren't strictly stuck in your own narrow view of the way the world has works, or weren't so obsessed by controlling others with your supposed god given authority.

You are forced to do nothing and all Americans agreed to follow the law, and pay taxes for what a duly elected government deems fit, despite your soaring exaggerated rhetoric.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltero

The shame inﬂicted on unwed mothers was designed to support marriage.

More like entitled judgement and manipulation on helpless females. The good news is they don't stay helpless long and have been standing on their own in growing numbers.

Quote:

The shame inﬂicted on unwed mothers was designed to support marriage.

Quote:

More like entitled judgement and manipulation on helpless females. The good news is they don't stay helpless long and have been standing on their own in growing numbers.

I get it, Marriage is out, Family is out. The state has it under control, what could possibly go wrong? Welcome to the Brave new world.