I suppose Bush is responsible to the earthquake in New Zealand too.

Obama almost 2 years into a presidency is not yet responsible for ANYTHING that has taken place under his watch... have any idea how much has happened the left who is still in love with the MEssiah won't report on because their handlers in the DNC won't allow them to?

Times running out... THe dems are going to lose their majorities, and unless he grew a pair and committs Seppuku sooner he will be gone in two years and will have saved Jimmy Carter from being the worst president in his lifetime. Assuming Carter makes it another 2 years.

No real American appologizes to everyone and bows to everyone like that idot has done.

Obama has done more damage to this country than Osama Bin Laden ever hoped to in his wildest dreams. He's a clueless buffoon that thinks he has divine powers when the idiot can't even balance his own checkbook.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

I suppose Bush is responsible to the earthquake in New Zealand too.

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Now there is a thought, we have been looking for someone to blame

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Now there is a thought, we have been looking for someone to blame

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Shhhhhhhhhh... If Obama hears he will blame him for that too.:D

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Originally Posted by excon

That's because it ain't true. According to factcheck.org the bible burning occurred under the Bush Administration.

By your own standards, does this mean Bush isn't a real Christian

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Factcheck.org has long strayed from fact checking. The bibles were burned in 2009, that would be when Obama was CIC. They were burned because it was the politically correct thing to do, out of this same fear of offending Muslims and after Al Jazeera try to inflame the situation.

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"The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.

Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said.

The Bibles were written in the languages Pashto and Dari.

This decision came to light recently, after the Al Jazeera English network aired video of a group prayer service and chapel sermon that a reporter said suggested U.S. troops were being encouraged to spread Christianity.

The military denied that earlier this month, saying much in the video was taken out of context.

"This was irresponsible and dangerous journalism sensationalizing year-old footage of a religious service for U.S. soldiers on a U.S. base and inferring that troops are evangelizing to Afghans," Col. Gregory Julian said.

The military says a soldier at Bagram received the Bibles and didn't realize he wasn't allowed to hand them out. In the Al Jazeera video, which shows the Bibles at the prayer service, an unnamed soldier says members of his church raised money for them.

The chaplain later corrected the soldier and confiscated the Bibles, Wright said.

Military officers considered sending the Bibles back to the church, he said, but they worried the church would turn around and send them to another organization in Afghanistan -- giving the impression that they had been distributed by the U.S. government.

That could lead to violence against troops or U.S. civilians, Wright said.

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Jones' problem was he didn't say he was just burning the trash.

Speechless, I have nothing but respect for you. Your postings are always logical and usually factual, unlike others who shall remain nameless. However, both CNN links posted on these last few pages back up the factchecks.org Excon posted.

From your link:
"May 20, 2009
Afghan workers enter a walkway on March 3, 2009, at Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan.Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said."

If you check the other CNN link posted on the previous page, it states the same thing.

The army is efficient in burning it's trash. They did not leave those bibles lying around for one year in a locked storage shed. Should we be blaming Bush for this decision? I don't think so. This was a decision made by an officer of our military because it went against U.S. military rules. So, blaming Obama for this is simply ridiculous. We need to place blame squarely on the idiots who sent the bibles in the first place. They had no business interfering in matters of war.

BTW, on the whole, I believe Factcheck.org is a much more reliable source than the hate filled blogs from both sides that are usually linked on these threads.

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Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

speechless, I have nothing but respect for you. Your postings are always logical and usually factual, unlike others who shall remain nameless. However, both CNN links posted on these last few pages back up the factchecks.org Excon posted.

From your link:
"May 20, 2009
Afghan workers enter a walkway on March 3, 2009, at Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan.Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said."

If you check the other CNN link posted on the previous page, it states the same thing.

The army is efficient in burning it's trash. They did not leave those bibles lying around for one year in a locked storage shed. Should we be blaming Bush for this decision? I don't think so. This was a decision made by an officer of our military because it went against U.S. military rules. So, blaming Obama for this is simply ridiculous. We need to place blame squarely on the idiots who sent the bibles in the first place. They had no business interfering in matters of war.

BTW, on the whole, I believe Factcheck.org is a much more reliable source than the hate filled blogs from both sides that are usually linked on these threads.

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After rereading, the CNN article isn't exactly clear. Either way, it was still done for the reasons mentioned. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

After rereading, the CNN article isn't exactly clear. Either way, it was still done for the reasons mentioned. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

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This is the CNN link from Smoothy's post: Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan - CNN.com

"'The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.

Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said."

Yes, the CNN article isn't crystal clear but the U.S. Military has strict regulations when it comes to disposing of trash, especially when on foreign soil. It is done quickly. This was an officer's decision to destroy the bibles based upon regulations, not Bush's, nor Obama's.

I don't think the military decision to destroy the bibles was out of fear of offending Muslims. Wright was quoted in your link as stating: [I]"Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation."[/I]

In my opinion, the military needs as much support as they can get from the citizens of Afghanistan in their search & destroy mission of Al-Qaeda & its Taliban supporters. It seems to me handing out Christian bibles to devout followers of the Koran would completely alienate the general population of that country.

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Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

[I]It seems to me handing out Christian bibles to devout followers of the Koran would completely alienate the general population of that country.

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I don't disagree with that and I don't know how that changes my point. Being a "force protection" measure means they fear it would offend Muslims and cause problems, no? Otherwise, what's the problem?

You can throw out the discussion of burned bibles altogether and my question still needs an answer.

Meanwhile, this if for ex:

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Christian Worshippers Attacked in Indonesia

Indonesia's president ordered police to hunt down and arrest assailants who stabbed a Christian worshipper in the stomach and beat a minister in the head with a wooden plank as they headed to prayers.

Neither of the injuries appeared to be life-threatening.

No one claimed responsibility for Sunday's attacks. But suspicion immediately fell on Islamic hard-liners who have repeatedly warned members of the Batak Christian Protestant Church against worshipping on a field housing their now-shuttered church.

In recent months, they have thrown shoes and water bottles at the church members, interrupted sermons with chants of "Infidels!" and "Leave Now!" and dumped piles of feces on the land.

Local police Chief Imam Sugianto said Asia Sihombing, a worshipper, was on his way to the field when assailants jumped off a motorcycle and stabbed him in the stomach.

The Rev. Luspida Simanjuntak was smashed in the head as she tried to come to his aid.

"I was trying to help get him onto a motorcycle so we could get him to a hospital," she told reporters in the industrial city of Bekasi, 25 miles east of Jakarta.

She said the face of one of the assailants looked familiar.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, who relies heavily on Islamic parties in parliament, has been widely criticized in the media for failing to crack down on hard-liners.

But he immediately called on authorities to investigate and to hold accountable those responsible.

"We know who's behind it," said Maj. Gen. Timur Pradopo, the police chief in Jakarta, without elaborating. "But I don't believe this is an inter-religious conflict."

Indonesia, a secular country of 237 million people, has more Muslims than any other in the world. Though it has a long history of religious tolerance, a small extremist fringe has become more vocal in recent years.

Leading the charge against the Batak Christians has been the Islamic Defenders Front, which is pushing for the implementation of Islamic-based laws in Bekasi and other parts of the nation.

They are known for smashing bars, attacking transvestites and going after those considered blasphemous with bamboo clubs and stones. Perpetrators are rarely punished or even questioned by police.

The front also pressured the local government early this year to shutter the Batak church.

The Batak worshippers have refused to back down. Every week, about 20 or so return to the field to pray, defying threats and indimidation.

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Atheists are also attacked: Nigerian atheist attacked by a mob of Christians at a child witchcraft conference

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NIGERIAN atheist, Leo Igwe – a regular contributor to the Freethinker – was attacked this week by a mob of Christians at a conference he staged to discuss Child Rights and Witchcraft.

According to this report, Igwe had his glasses smashed and his bag, phone and camera stolen by the mob, numbering between 150 and 200, who were alternately singing and aggressively disrupting the conference in Calabar. After an hour and a half, the police turned up and dispersed the mob. One person was arrested

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Atheists are also attacked: Nigerian atheist attacked by a mob of Christians at a child witchcraft conference

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OK, so? Did I say they weren't or call them whiny? NO, that was for excon's remark.

As long as we agree that religious groups persecute other religious groups - it's not relegated to a unique belief.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

As long as we agree that religious groups persecute other religious groups - it's not relegated to a unique belief.

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I never said Muslims weren't persecuted, but it isn't relegated to religious groups doing the persecuting either. Or do you consider China and North Korea for instance, a "religious group?"

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Being a "force protection" measure means they fear it would offend Muslims and cause problems, no? Otherwise, what's the problem?

You can throw out the discussion of burned bibles altogether and my question still needs an answer. Why are we so fearful of offending Muslims but don't give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians?

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I combined the points you were looking to discuss into one post.

Since I don't know what is in the minds of others, I can only answer your question from my own perspective. I don't believe the military does not "give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians." I honestly believe that isn't a factor at play here. Of course, I agree they were looking to avoid insulting the Muslims but, we are in their country and I believe our armed forces are simply focusing on the strategy that is involved in a military prime objective. I also believe if they didn't follow the guidelines many, many more of our soldiers would have died. Just MHO.

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Originally Posted by Just_Another_Lemming

I combined the points you were looking to discuss into one post.

Since I don't know what is in the minds of others, I can only answer your question from my own perspective. I don't believe the military does not "give a rat's a$$ about offending Christians." I honestly believe that isn't a factor at play here. Of course, I agree they were looking to avoid insulting the Muslims but, we are in their country and I believe our armed forces are simply focusing on the strategy that is involved in a military prime objective. I also believe if they didn't follow the guidelines many, many more of our soldiers would have died. Just MHO.

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When I said leave out the bible burning that left out the military, my question was always for society as a whole. It's perfectly fine to offend Christians, but not Muslims. In fact, many in this country treat offending Christians as a sport while getting all sanctimonious over some perceived slight to Muslims. I don't get it, do you?

Ah yes, poor christian americans with 100% of their presidents being christian and anytime you are in court you've got a bible there to swear on. All those free bibles in hotel rooms don't hurt either. Yes they are such a maligned group. LOL!

So... its OK to offend Christians in America... but not Muslims?

So you are in effect saying Muslims are a protected class, while Christians are deserving of the same disdain reserved for Child molesters, and Bikers?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

So....its ok to offend Christians in America....but not Muslims?

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So you are saying that white christians are the chosen race?

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

When I said leave out the bible burning that left out the military, my question was always for society as a whole. It's perfectly fine to offend Christians, but not Muslims. In fact, many in this country treat offending Christians as a sport while getting all sanctimonious over some perceived slight to Muslims. I don't get it, do you?

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Ahhhh! LOL. Sorry. I didn't realize you were talking generalities. I can't answer for "society as a whole." However, I don't agree that people in this country feel it is fine to offend Christians but not Muslims and that "many" "treat offending Christians as a sport....". I think only a handful of people actually do that and no, I don't get why they do it. Attention maybe? Unfortunately, they do appear to be the ones who get the press coverage. Frankly, I blame the media for inciting the masses on a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So you are saying that white christians are the chosen race?

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You said that... I never even implied it.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You said that....I never even implied it.

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See? We can play your "implied/are you saying?" game all day!