You have psychic predictions?Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
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You have psychic predictions?Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Nobody is talking about Obama's popularity. We're talking about his effectiveness. We're talking about the fact that what he has been doing is similar to what Bush did in many instances, but on a much larger scale, and yet nobody who complained about Bush is complaining about Obama.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
You were hired to fix things, and I'm sure you did a wonderful job at it. But Obama wasn't elected to fix things... he was elected to CHANGE them. Huge difference.
Really? OK, what would be the appropriate time to judge whether he's fixing things or not?Quote:
Is Obama fixing things? It's too soon to tell.
Really? In what way?Quote:
I'm talking simply about the economy, though. He HAS gone a long way to restoring our badly damaged reputation in the world.
Excon
What I see is a President who has been taking such socialist actions in the US economy that world leaders of socialist countries are complaining that he's acting too socialist. I see him meeting with Russian bigwigs like Putin and getting lectured like a little schoolboy... and just sitting there and taking it. And THEN he goes out and makes speeches at Moscow University about how the USA and Reagan were NOT the impitus for the fall of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War. I see him giving interviews about how people like Lech Wallesa were more important to the fall of the USSR than Reagan, even though in a letter from Wallessa, he stated himself tha Reagan was the responsible party. Obama is acting like a pansy on the world stage. He's letting world leaders treat him like a child. He's allowing other countries to dictate the state of our military preparedness. He's trying to negotiate with dictators who have no intention of negotiating in good faith.
Let's not forget that the real reason the Obama went to Russia was to negotiate permission to transport military ground equiment through Russian territory into Afghanistan. He not only failed in that mission (or rather he negotiated a deal with so many caveats that we will never be able to meet them) but he also ended up negotiating a nuclear disarmament treaty that strongly favors Russia over the USA. He folded like a wet towel.
Bush may have been hated around the world. They may have hated him for his military actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. MAYBE. It seems that at least a few leaders followed him. But I'll grant you that he wasn't well liked at all in many circles.
But Obama is a lightweight, and he's proving it over and over again. Oh, sure, all the world leaders like him. They like him the way they like a clown... good for a laugh. He's becoming the laughingstock of the international community for his naïveté, willingness to kowtow, and the quickness with which he becomes an apologist.
Excon, you can look at Obama and say that he's improving our image in the world all you want. The facts on the ground say different.
But I know I shouldn't confuse you with the facts. Let's just give him time to do more of the same... regardless of the consequences of those actions.
Watch what they do, not what they say... and what Obama is doing is both laughable and scary at the same time.
Elliot
Wondergirl,Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
So you agree that the stimulus bill was a dud because the money hasn't gone where it was supposed to go... either because of greedy states or because the funds were never properly distributed. Or perhaps they were distributed, but the proposed stimulus projects never happened anyway. For whatever reason, the stimulus failed.
Do you now believe that we should do more of the same? Or are you yet convinced that the stimulus bill was a mistake that wasted money and stimulated nothing... just as we conservatives predicted it would be.
And if it was a mistake, who's fault was that mistake? Does any of the blame for this mistake go to Obama? Or is it someone else's fault?
Elliot
The stimulus bill was fine. The allocation was fine. It's not over yet. The projects will get done. Rome wasn't built in a day. Patience is a virtue. All things come to those who wait. Sit tight and buckle your seat belt. Have faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Sorry, I know too much history to have faith. I already know how this plays out. We've already seen it in the Great Depression, and it dragged the economy through 8 years of economic ruin, saved only by a war and the need to put the economy on a wartime footing. We don't have any wars big enough to stress our entire economy and put us into a wartime-production mode. So that little safety net is out the window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
The only faith I have is in the Invisible Hand of the free market. I have absolutely none in the Iron Gauntlet of statism and government-central-planning.
Elliot
Obama is a capitalist. Never fear. (It's been only a few months. Why are you so impatient? I bet you used to try to peek into birthday gifts too when you were a boy. Maybe you still do.) We will come out of those 8 years of ruin.Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
I've just been reading that Obama wants his treaties to take effect BEFORE Congress ratifies them.
Seems kind of dictatorial to me.
Since the issue of guns was raised in this thread this is a timely piece. The state of Texas along with 32 other states has filed an amicus brief with SCOTUS in support of a Chicago man that lives in a high crime neighborhood and wants to own a gun for protection. The brief reads in part:
33 states agree with me on the essential nature of the 2nd amendment in protecting our other rights. Where this fits in the subject of this thread is this, in many ways Obama is as excon calls him, an incrementalist. He has a history of supporting anti-gun legislation in spite of his rhetoric in support of the 2nd amendment since he became presidential candidate and now President Obama. He also likes to distract us and sneak in policy initiatives and such in late Friday dumps when it gets lost in the news cycle. He wants you to be watching one hand when you should be watching what he’s doing with the other hand.Quote:
“The right to keep and bear arms under the Second Amendment is not just a ‘fundamental’ liberty interest. In the Anglo-American tradition, it is among the most fundamental of rights because t is essential to securing all our other liberties. The Founders well understood that, without the protections afforded by the Second Amendment, all of the other rights and privileges ordinarily enjoyed by Americans would be vulnerable to governmental acts of oppression
Flash back to March when he nominated Harold Koh to be legal adviser to the State Department. Koh was confirmed in late June.
Koh delivered a speech on “how to implement back door gun control in the face of a populace who believes that they have a Constitutional right to own a firearm.”Quote:
Koh believes that U.S. should “establish a national firearms control system and a register of manufacturers, traders, importers and exporters” of guns to comply with those international obligations.
Specifically, Koh is a supporter of the “Inter-American Convention Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials.” He argues that the Convention requires states “to standardize national laws,” that “the only meaningful mechanism to regulate illicit transfers is stronger domestic regulation,” and that “supply-side control measures within the United States” are essential. The administration has recently announced it will ask the Senate to ratify the Convention.
Make your own conclusions... but watch both of Obama's hands.
Well I suppose it's a two way street. You want to hear people complain about Obama the same way they did about Bush and they want to hear you defend Obama the same way you defended Bush.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
After all, as you put it Obama is only doing what Bush did and you defended him. So why now do you have a problem with Obama? Why don't you defend him?
Or are you just as big a hypocrite as the hypocrites that whinged about Bush?
So you have facts to back up your claims that the world's leaders are laughing at him? Please provide them?Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
Skell, I gave Obama the benefit of the doubt early on. I have acknowledged things he has done right such as continuing some of the Bush policies he said he wouldn't even if in slightly different form. I have acknowledged Bush's mistakes such as his failure to restrain spending and the first porkulus bill. I can be fair about things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
There was an extraordinary amount of foaming at the mouth out of the left over Bush policies that Obama is continuing, did their objections change once a liberal Democrat came to power? What they hated before is OK now? I'm being consistent, my view of what's happening hasn't changed because the party in power did.
Steve I see your point and take in on board other than to say that I'm pretty sure 'reasonable' people gave it a little longer than a few months before they frothing of the mouth started over Bush.
It's still early on.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I respect the fact that once in office, Obahma saw that Bush did some things right and swallowed his pride and did what was the best thing to do at the time and continued with the plan. Congress gave him the power to do what he could to avert disaster with the economy. He is not looking to be a dictator so far as I know but circumstances are leaning towards making that job assessible. It has been leaning that way for quite a few years. It's not a sudden change. We have to tell them we have noticed and we care or they will take the easiest path. A letter or two will do it. From each of us. We are the people and we have to stick up for ourselves.
I looked up the definition of Socialism and Nationalism. I never should have done it.
As Yogi might say... it's getting late earlier these daysQuote:
It's still early on.
They are already giving limp wristed excuses as to why the economy has not begun to even bottom out yet. The stimulus bucket list is a lie if all that is being done with the money is propping up State budgets so they don't have to make needed cuts.
It is a lie if they are only repaving roads instead of building new infrastructure .
Now some Dems claim they need more even as you claim they have not spent the money wisely or in a timely manner .
Look ,the economy will recover with or without stimulus spending . All the spending has done is set up a scenario where the recovery will be sluggish when it comes. How do I know this ? Well ;as Eliot pointed out ;we've seen this show before. It is clear that all the "work projects " of the Depression era did nothing to help the economy recover . In fact it prolonged the depression .I'd even go further and make the claim that had there not been WWII Roosevelt would've left office a complete failure after 2 terms.
Exactly Tom
I said from the get go when I heard some of what the stimulus money was paying for that it wasn't going to benefit anybody as far as more jobs, just the bureaucrats.
Not the small business man or the average worker.
Sorry my friend, but as ex would say... BWA HA HA HA!Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell
The foaming at the mouth began the day after the 2000 election and he's still being blamed for things happening today.
Floridagate
While nice I suppose, we're getting portions of a highway resurfaced. They do that every few years as it is already. Know how our city is spending its 'stimulus' money? We're replacing older traffic signal bulbs with LED's. Save the city some money sure, but the only one it's going to stimulate is the folks selling them the lights. The city traffic dept is certainly not going to add more workers to change bulbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
EXACTLY!Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
All smoke and mirrors by all these projects going on now. It still is not the average business owner or us nobody Joe's that are benefiting. Even so it comes out of our pocket one way or another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
First of all, how impatient were you when Bush was elected in 2000? From the day Bush took office, people complained about how he was ruining the country, how he stole the election and a whole bunch of stuff that was simply not true. How impatient was the left under Bush?
I, on the other hand, am looking at specific actions, policies and statements of Obama and critiquing them.
Second, on what basis are you saying that Obama is a capitalist? He has nationalized 10 of the top 12 banks, 2 of the top 3 auto makers, the largest insurance company, and is trying to nationalize the entire healthcare industry. That is socialism. And that's before you even consider the socialist effects of cap & trade in terms of government-controls over industry. The entire stimulus bill is socialism. He is trying to use government money to create jobs through make-work programs. That is socialism. Government bailouts of companies is socialism. The Welfare programs that are growing under Obama are socialism. On what basis are you saying that Obama is a capitalist? What capitalist action has he taken since being elected President? (Aside from signing a multi-million-dollar book deal BEFORE he took office, which happens to be an ethics violation. That was pretty capitalist of him. But how does that help the country?) What piece of legislation, action, or statement from Obama leads you to believe that he's a capitalist and in favor of free markets?
You are throwing out platitudes about capitalism, Wondergirl, with no hard evidence to back it up.
Wake up, girl. Obama is no capitalist. His father was a socialist economist and senior economic official in Kenya who openly pushed for (and got) a socialist economy, and Obama takes after the old man. (Note how well Kenya's economy is doing under socialism.) Obama's own statements and actions support socialism. He IS a socialist, whether he admits it publicly or not. His actions prove that point.
Now... if you want to argue that socialism is a better system, fine. We can have that argument. But to say that Obama isn't a socialist when every action he's taken so far is pushing a socialist agenda and every statement he's made pushes a socialist agenda, is just plain silly and ignores the facts.
Elliot
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