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When the gov starts acting like the children belong to it rather than to the parents, then everyone loses.Quote:
I can certainly understand being on the losing end of some of those court cases, and the resentments of being told what your doing ain't fair.
So the judge was biased after hearing both sides of the case? Why wasn't his ruling fair to the kids involved?
Which ruling are you referring to?Quote:
So the judge was biased after hearing both sides of the case? Why wasn't his ruling fair to the kids involved?
The ones you said ruled that kids had to go to schools they told them too against the wishes of the parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
If you are referring to the ruling in the school where I worked, parents had built homes within sight of the school for the express purpose of being able to send their children to our school. A fed judge ruled that those kids had to go to another school about ten miles away, so the parents ended up with homes ten miles from their school as opposed to right across the highway. So no, it was not fair, but much worse than that, it amounts to the government making a decision that the parents should be making.
The only semi-large city in our county has been going downhill for forty years and for a simple reason. A judge decades ago ruled that children living in the city HAD to attend city schools. Many of the white families involved decided to simply move out to the county because they did not like the city schools. The result is that the city has lost about a fourth of its population. Vacant/dilapidated houses are all over the place. The city schools performance is lousy. Crime is a serious problem. It's probably too late now, but if someone had had the good sense to say, "You can send your kids to whatever school you choose," then the problem would have been solved. As it turns out, the schools are still segregated, but segregated due to geography, so nothing was achieved other than making the problem even worse.
Why did the judge rule that way as the logic escapes me. What was the purpose? What were they trying to achieve?Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
How eerily similar the effects of white flight and the aftermath, between my hometown and the city you reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
If the white families had been left to their own choices about schools, then there would have much less flight. This is still a nation built upon the concept of maximum personal freedom.Quote:
How eerily similar the effects of white flight and the aftermath, between my hometown and the city you reference.
I give the judge a little lee-way in this case. Our school was built on a county line and the district originally included students from both counties. That was changed decades ago and I'm not certain as to why, but I think it was because of fed ordered integration. At any rate, our neighboring district decided they wanted those students, so like good government employees, they ran around the wishes of the parents and got their way.Quote:
Why did the judge rule that way as the logic escapes me. What was the purpose? What were they trying to achieve?
obviously you have learned nothing in the last 150 years
I'm sure you'll tell us all about it. You usually do.
No, I don't understand rampant racism
Maximum freedom for some and not others you mean, because while that's what the words may say, or IMPLY, but that's not how it actually worked, as there have always been exceptions and exclusions, which still exist to this day. Those good old days of the 60's you referenced earlier was all about people trying to maximize their freedom after 100 years of the end of slavery.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
It's not as rampant, but well enough hidden as to be plausibly denied, and still powerful and insidious.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Those were not good ole days. Segregation was a terrible idea and good riddance. Taking away the authority of parents was a bad idea as well.Quote:
Those good old days of the 60's you referenced earlier was all about people trying to maximize their freedom after 100 years of the end of slavery.
Good to hear you say there is something you don't understand.Quote:
No, I don't understand rampant racism
Isn't the whole basis of white flight about segregation? So how is it over? What is t about the local public schools that triggers this white flight? I have an idea just from what I have seen in my own hometown, but would be interested in your ideas also.
These parents want their kids in high-performing schools. It's just that simple. In our area the county schools largely do well, and the city schools stink. There is also a cultural element involved in it. The differences between the two school systems is so dramatic that I don't see any way to turn back the clock.
Tell me more about this cultural element, and I would also be interested in why those public schools stink so bad. I've always held it was funding more than almost anything else, as well as the quality of teachers and support systems essential to the kids well being, even with cultural differences. While I have no problem with school choice, I highly am against bad public schools through neglect for any reason.
The behavior in the city schools is pretty bad. The language used by the kids is bad. Multiple high school girls pregnant is something that many parents don't want their kids seeing, especially when it's basically just yawned at. They are flooded with kids from single parent homes, and that is a different dynamic. If you don't believe that, then go work in a public school for a couple of years and come back and tell me about it. Sagging pants is a red flag for many parents. Valuing athletics more than academics is a huge problem.
The public schools in the city stink because they struggle to keep students disciplined. It has nothing to do with funding. I worked in both districts. The city had money that flowed like a river compared to the county. It was a much better situation. That is also true, by the way, in famous failed school situations like D.C. and Chicago. They have lots of money. Teacher quality might be an issue, but that is a problem they brought on themselves. They don't value quality the way they need to, and that seems to be especially true for white teachers. They do have some good employees. I worked with and appreciated many of them, but they are inadequately supported, or at least that's how it seems to me.
They do manage to have a big celebration of Black History month every year. And yes, that was sarcastic.
Their biggest problem, in my view, is the fact that they don't value success. They have become accustomed to being mediocre, and so they don't identify what needs to happen to become successful. They aren't prepared to make the unpleasant decisions needed to become successful. It's not just a school problem, it's a city problem. We're OK with just being OK.
Might add that both of our kids went through the city schools. That is a decision I regret greatly to this day.
Let me tell you a bit about my school. We are considered a high poverty area based on zip code. We had an idea, (the school district), to create a public school with very high expectations, no transportation provided, uniforms required, and spots available for students by lottery only. Teachers were hired based on excellence and experience. We couldn’t quite fill the school year one, but we became one of the top ten schools in CA the first year based on state test scores. Since the second year, we have an average of 400 waiting for each grade level. We became a model for other public schools. A lot of visits from neighboring states to see what we are doing, as well as CA schools. Will it work everywhere? Probably not due to no transportation provided, but it does allow everyone a chance to get in. We have a few before and after school programs that provide transportation to the school, and it continues to work. Fingers crossed we get back to work when the danger of the Coronavirus has dissipated.
Show me a kid with behavior that crosses the lines of good behavior, and I will show you a kid with unaddressed issues. It's easy to broad brush a problem, and say they, but much harder to to ask WHY. Unnacceptable to write them off. That solves nothing. You say it has nothing to do with funding, guess again as teachers need support, that costs money, be it classroom aides, or simply having people they can refer such kids with bad behavior too. Testing and solutions cost money, a nurse floating between schools ain't cutting it. social workers with high case loads ain't cutting it, and economically challenged parents with no support system doesn't cut it either.
A kid in school with his pants down around his ankles is because the school allows it, and doesn't address it. A school without those social supports to address the unique needs of it's students is inadequate, and under funded, and under served, plain and simple. Schools have always been the heart of a community and could be counted on to serve the needs of that community and now they don't! That's the problem. So while your waiting for those single parents to get spouses, probably be a good idea to figure out how best to serve those single parent families.
Got any ideas in that regard?
It's amazing how much you know about running a school when you have never so much as taught a single day in one. Saying that "a kid with behavior that crosses the lines of good behavior, and I will show you a kid with unaddressed issues," is basically nothing. It's true sometimes,but with many kids, they are just kids being kids but who are not disciplined at home so they think they can do as they please. No one is writing anyone off so you can just stop your theatrics. Your funding comments are meaningless. If you want to say that the city schools should address these issues, then that's fine, but that doesn't mean parents should be forced to send their kids to those schools. Simplistic statements don't count for much. I have a lot of ideas. When I was principal of one of those schools, and when we had a really good staff, then the school performed very well. But then they had to go out and hire a liberal, northern superintendent who was pathetic, and so the wheels fell off the cart. But like I said. When the community is OK with being just OK, then you have your problem right there.
Kids have issues, people have issues what it translates into are generational issues and problems, the nanny state mentality has reduced society to wimpish behaviour
So very true.Quote:
the nanny state mentality has reduced society to wimpish behaviour
Did I hit a nerve there bud? Must I be a school administrator to decide whether a school is good or bad? I'm a parent and have been quite closed and hands on in whatever schools my kids have attended, which often involved school boards and city counsels, so drop the arrogance. Yes schools should address those issues and effectively, and yes parents should have choices about the schools they send their kids to and know the process involved in doing so. That's a LOCAL issue dude. You seem stuck in many areas about somebody forcing you to do something you feel entitled to do and that's fine until you assign blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Case in point who hired the pathetic northern liberal superintendent who took the wheels off and how did he do it single handedly?
You were going really well until you made your last titanically incorrect statement about that being a LOCAL issue. That tells me you know next to nothing about schools. It is not merely local. There are state laws, state regs, fed laws, fed regs, and fed court decisions to try and wade through first.Quote:
Yes schools should address those issues and effectively, and yes parents should have choices about the schools they send their kids to and know the process involved in doing so. That's a LOCAL issue dude.
Until I assign blame, kind of like you do all the time???Quote:
You seem stuck in many areas about somebody forcing you to do something you feel entitled to do and that's fine until you assign blame.
If you really knew much about schools, you'd know that the Board of Ed does the hiring. They specifically wanted a black man to run things. He was a complete incompetent, but it still goes back to the community. It's really hard for any school to rise above the community.Quote:
Case in point who hired the pathetic northern liberal superintendent who took the wheels off and how did he do it single handedly?
What board of education made you hire a black man?
I thought you said you knew something about schools? The Board of Ed must approve any and all hires, and they actually make the decision of who to hire as Super. It is their decision. It was not MY hire, it was their hire. There were many good, competent black men they could have hired, but this guy was pretty bad
So the feds hired him and not the state or local board? What did he do that was so bad and who fired him for it?
That is rather plainly not what I said. " The Board of Ed must approve any and all hires, and they actually make the decision of who to hire as Super."Quote:
So the feds hired him and not the state or local board?
I merely asked a question, so why not just answer it, if you know, since I suspect from your other posts the COUNTY school district hired the liberal black guy from the north, and please elaborate how he got the wheels to come off, and what was done about it?
Here's the problem. You asked a question that concerned the feds hiring the guy. Well, if you had read what I posted, you would have known the feds did not do the hiring. Now you are asking a question as to why the county hired him, but it was not the county but the city who hired him. That gets a little frustrating.Quote:
I merely asked a question, so why not just answer it, if you know, since I suspect from your other posts the COUNTY school district hired the liberal black guy from the north, and please elaborate how he got the wheels to come off, and what was done about it?
Why he failed? He did not pay attention to what he was doing. He did not visit the schools. He did not support the teachers. There was a case of a 9th grade student walking up and punching a female teacher. The man never even checked on her, and the student was sent home with his parent rather than having his arse arrested as should have happened. When you lose your teachers, it's over with.
Sorry for the frustration in communicating, just trying to pinpoint your specific process for hiring.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Was there a consent decree in place at that time? Was this just one of many similar events and was the superintendent fired, as we did discuss before such action that lead to a DOJ investigation, and lawsuit, so just trying to ascertain if this was related.Quote:
Why he failed? He did not pay attention to what he was doing. He did not visit the schools. He did not support the teachers. There was a case of a 9th grade student walking up and punching a female teacher. The man never even checked on her, and the student was sent home with his parent rather than having his arse arrested as should have happened. When you lose your teachers, it's over with.
Thanks for your patience in advance as I wrap my head around the timeline of events.
The consent decree came about after this guy was hired. He had basically nothing to do with that. That was a political show put on by the SCLC. I don't think he was fired. As I remember, he resigned to go elsewhere.Quote:
Was there a consent decree in place at that time? Was this just one of many similar events and was the superintendent fired, as we did discuss before such action that lead to a DOJ investigation, and lawsuit, so just trying to ascertain if this was related.
Thanks guy, but let me ask if things are better since those events, regarding testing outcomes and school disciplines? Correct me if I'm wrong but those events happened many years ago so I guess what I'm asking is the changes made to make things better?
I don't know of any real changes made to make things better. The new super is definitely an improvement, but I'll say again, when you're OK with just being OK, then good luck. Schools are typically no better than what the community insists on.
On that we can agree. Are Ms. schools still open?
No. They're closed until some point in April.
How about restaurants bars and sporting events where there are big crowds?
All sporting events have been cancelled. I think a few restaurants are still open but most are carry-out only. I don't know about the bars.
The dufus said yesterday he is considering opening stuff back up because the cure is worse than the disease, so health crisis may be over.
the economy cannot weather many more days off. As it is many of these small businesses being FORCED to shut down will not recover .
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