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A president meeting people in secret??? Who ever heard of such a thing. It's a good thing that Loretta Lynch didn't secretly meet with Bill Clinton when his wife was under active FBI investigation. I'm sure Tal would have been greatly concerned about a meeting like that.Quote:
between the dufus domain in NY and The WH or ML, no telling who he is seeing or why.
That meeting was inappropriate in the appearance but pales in comparison to what the dufus has done which is much more than suspicious on it's face and for what we don't know. but suffering from Clinton Traumatic Syndrome as you have been makes it understandable why you would conflate the two as equally dumb. The words, actions, and behavior of the dufus is demonstrably much more egregious than Lynch and the Clintons by far.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Voting for candidates is not enough.Quote:
So What? I am as American as you are. I VOTE too.
Oh, That Time When Clinton Said Anyone Who Doesn’t Accept The Results Of An Election Is A Threat To Democracy
It's easy to talk about Trump having no Honor (deal breaking with Iran...you are joking?). Quote: "How can you Trust a deal breaker"...
Honoring the vote???
I do believe the future of this country would have suffered for a very long time if Hillary had been elected. Voting by its very nature is an “instrumental” act: a means to an end. Voting is most commonly the act of choosing the best option among the viable options available. It is not an endorsement of the candidate’s character or even his or her positions. Many, many considerations may factor into one’s vote. By contrast, Hillary was supported foursquare by her party, its institutions, and its elected officials, who would not support her impeachment even if she were caught personally leading a burglary at the RNC. Neither candidate was fit for office, but only one candidate has a chance at being removed for unfitness.
How strange it is to argue that we voted for the impeachable candidate
How could you possibly know? Where you there? Do you know what was said? Do you know what has been said in Trump's private meetings?Quote:
That meeting was inappropriate in the appearance but pales in comparison to what the dufus has done which is much more than suspicious on it's face and for what we don't know.
Politics. All politics.
Yes, it went something like this; Durr Duh, Durrr which way did he go, which way did he go...Quote:
Do you know what has been said in Trump's private meetings?
"Trump is going to start a WAR!" Durr Duh.
Nobody is going to start sh*t while Trump is in Office.
I don't have to know, but I do know you NEVER trust a liar, a cheater, and a bully without VERIFICATION. Until then I'm highly suspicious.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Does that include the dufus not starting one?Quote:
Nobody is going to start sh*t while Trump is in Office.
The motto of liberals. "Knowledge is not necessary."Quote:
I don't have to know
The motto of conservatives: "We don't need no stinkin' knowledge!"Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
AKA, NeverTrumpers.Quote:
The motto of conservatives: "We don't need no stinkin' knowledge!"
Conservatism is an actual intellectual application. Liberalism is just the easiest choice anybody can make. All you have to do is pretend to care about things and say so. Conservatism, all of these values and principles of conservatism require action to implement, not just thought.
For a few weeks recently, I was a member of a Christian conservative group. There were no "intellectual applications," no values, no principles except "we are right in how we think." As Dr. Phil would say, they were right-fighters*. They didn't DO anything to help anyone, were basically white male supremacists pounding their chests.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
*A right-fighter is someone who insists on having the last word in an argument or refuses to back down no matter what. Challenges of Being a "Right-Fighter". 1) People who are right-fighters, (or those who are driven by the need to be right), have their value or worth literally attached to the outcome of being right.
AKA, NeverTrumpers.Quote:
For a few weeks recently, I was a member of a Christian conservative group. There were no "intellectual applications," no values, no principles except "we are right in how we think." As Dr. Phil would say, they were right-fighters*. They didn't DO anything to help anyone, were basically white male supremacists pounding their chests.
*A right-fighter is someone who insists on having the last word in an argument or refuses to back down no matter what. Challenges of Being a "Right-Fighter". 1) People who are right-fighters, (or those who are driven by the need to be right), have their value or worth literally attached to the outcome of being right.
Well Tal, there you have it. Dr. Phil has figured you out.
Um, not Tal!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
Why did you become a member?Quote:
For a few weeks recently, I was a member of a Christian conservative group.
I was raised and lived much of my adult life as conservative Christian and figured I'd know some of the other group members. And I did or had known their parents and grandparents.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
So what turned you away from being a conservative Christian? I know a lot of them and they are active in deed as well as word.
I know a lot of them, too. Most are not active in word OR deed, especially the latter. It's a whole 'nother layer of conservatism today, a superficial layer, not the conservatism I have known much of my life. Instead, it's a conservatism I don't want any part of or to be part of.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
I can't speak for the people you know, but I can tell you this. The drug rehab facility I work with would not be there if not for conservative Christians. I would guess there are twenty to thirty churches and individuals who help out, and virtually all are Christians who love Jesus and love those men. I just don't see anyone out there who is excited about gay marriage, abortion, the welfare state, or other items from the liberal point of view.Quote:
I know a lot of them, too. Most are not active in word OR deed, especially the latter. It's a whole 'nother layer of conservatism today, a superficial layer, not the conservatism I have known much of my life. Instead, it's a conservatism I don't want any part of or to be part of.
Ah, your Christian love DOES have limits! (P.S. Those aren't liberal points of view; they're human situations that need unconditional love.)Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Yes, the philosophy of the liberals that says; I can have my sin but you must give me your compassion. We can sympathise with those in these situations, however, there are alternatives. Come out from among them.Quote:
unconditional love
And your Christian faith seems to have no grounding in God's will. Kill babies with abortion? Fine. Two men get married. No problem. Your moral values seem to be more shaped by the values of the democrat party than by the Bible.Quote:
Ah, your Christian love DOES have limits! (P.S. Those aren't liberal points of view; they're human situations that need unconditional love.)
BTW, the love of God is limitless in the sense that He offers mercy to everyone, but not in the sense that He accepts and approves of all our actions. Jesus Himself allowed people to walk away and reject Him.
And yeah, they are liberal points of view. You will not find gay marriage, abortion, or the federal welfare state in the Bible.
I didn't say we must agree with them. I said people in those situations need our unconditional love.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
They haven't rejected Him. Christians have rejected them.Quote:
BTW, the love of God is limitless in the sense that He offers mercy to everyone, but not in the sense that He accepts and approves of all our actions. Jesus Himself allowed people to walk away and reject Him.
You'd better read your Bible a bit more carefully and be sure to interpret correctly what you read.Quote:
And yeah, they are liberal points of view. You will not find gay marriage, abortion, or the federal welfare state in the Bible.
You seem to be offering unconditional acceptance of behavior. That is not Biblical and it is not love. To refuse to oppose gay marriage and abortion is not a loving act at all. It is just going along to get along, and giving your liberal views an outlet.Quote:
I didn't say we must agree with them. I said people in those situations need our unconditional love.
Just a general statement with no meaning. "They", "Christians", and "them" are large groups that you can't possibly be that familiar with. I, for instance, belong in the "Christians" group, but I have not rejected anyone that I know of.Quote:
They haven't rejected Him. Christians have rejected them.
I'm open to you showing me gay marriage, abortion, and the federal welfare state in the Bible.Quote:
You'd better read your Bible a bit more carefully and be sure to interpret correctly what you read.
You so want me to be "liberal" and are painting me with that brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Unconditional love is not unconditional acceptance.
I was responding to 'Clete and using pronouns whose antecedents were the nouns he used.Quote:
Just a general statement with no meaning. "They", "Christians", and "them" are large groups that you can't possibly be that familiar with. I, for instance, belong in the "Christians" group, but I have not rejected anyone that I know of.
Have you read it yet?Quote:
I'm open to you showing me gay marriage, abortion, and the federal welfare state in the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Well said!
Many times.Quote:
Have you read it yet?
I would hope you would stop being evasive. If you can find those practices being approved in the Bible, then post it. Otherwise, you should stop supporting them. You don't do people favors by doing so. It's as bad as saying you don't support slavery, but wouldn't want to seem to be unloving by opposing it.
All love has limits.
Your response was a bit obscure, I couldn't see what I had said in it. The liberals demand acceptance of whatever people want to do because we Christians are required to be different. I live, I breathe, I have an opinion which is informed by God's Word. My answer to them you will be forgiven if you repent, in the meantime, I am not required to agree with themQuote:
I was responding to 'Clete and using pronouns whose antecedents were the nouns he used.
Good response. I would only add that I will help a person if I can in some way that does not add to their disobedience of God. In dealing with addicts, for instance, you learn quickly that most of them are good deceivers and you cannot assist them in their addiction. It can lead to some tough decisions.Quote:
I have an opinion which is informed by God's Word. My answer to them you will be forgiven if you repent, in the meantime, I am not required to agree with them
I haven't supported "those practices" nor have I been evasive. I said they need unconditional love. For instance, the Bible writers didn't know about fetuses being swamped in hormone baths that changed how their brain interpreted their sexuality.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Jesus' love doesn't have limits.
That's what you like to claim, but you don't oppose them. You like to live in the middle, not against, but not in favor of. At some point you need to state your position.Quote:
I haven't supported "those practices"
Yes, you are. I ask you to give Biblical support for gay marriage or abortion, and your reply is to tell me to read my Bible. It's basically a non-response in meaning.Quote:
nor have I been evasive.
Even if your answer was accurate, and it largely is not, how would that effect our discussion? You still have not made reference to any scripture showing an acceptance of gay marriage or abortion.Quote:
I said they need unconditional love. For instance, the Bible writers didn't know about fetuses being swamped in hormone baths that changed how their brain interpreted their sexuality.
Oh it most certainly did. When the rich young ruler approached Jesus, He told the man what he needed to do to enter the Kingdom of God. It specifically says that Jesus loved the man, but the ruler chose to do otherwise. Jesus did not pursue him and try to change his mind, and on the day of judgement, his love will be shown to have a limit. Jesus loved everyone, but He did not accept everyone, nor did He allow anyone and everyone to follow Him. If you think He did, then you need to read your Bible.Quote:
Jesus' love doesn't have limits.
I would eat with them as Jesus would and tell them about His love for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Tell me where in the Bible it says anything at all about gay marriage and abortion.Quote:
Yes, you are. I ask you to give Biblical support for gay marriage or abortion, and your reply is to tell me to read my Bible. It's basically a non-response in meaning.
Actually, it IS scientific.Quote:
A completely senseless, non-scientific answer.
Have you approached anyone to tell them what they must do to enter God's kingdom? Hmmmm, I wonder what you'd say....Quote:
Oh it most certainly did. When the rich young ruler approached Jesus, He told the man what he needed to do to enter the Kingdom of God. It specifically says that Jesus loved the man, but the ruler chose to do otherwise. Jesus did not pursue him and try to change his mind, and on the day of judgement, his love will be shown to have a limit. Jesus loved everyone, but He did not accept everyone. If you think He did, then you need to read your Bible.
Again, a non-response. What is your position about the morality of gm or abortion?Quote:
I would eat with them as did Jesus would and tell them about His love for them.
I would tell them to repent and believe in Jesus Christ. Have done so many times. Holds true whether you are a prostitute or the bank president.Quote:
Have you approached anyone to tell them what they must do to enter God's kingdom? Hmmmm, I wonder what you'd say....
What do you tell them?
Funny how your response is always evasive. You have no support, so you ask me give support. I'm happy to do it, but just another example of your non-responses.Quote:
Tell me where in the Bible it says anything at all about gay marriage and abortion.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
I first get to know them and start to become a friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Huh? I told you what I believe and think.Quote:
Funny how your response is always evasive.
Non response. No, I don't agree with you. Guess that's a non response.Quote:
You have no support, so you ask me give support. I'm happy to do it, but just another example of your non-responses.
Gay couples can love each other and be as one flesh.Quote:
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living soul (nephesh - “an animated, breathing, conscious, and living being).”Quote:
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
So the truth comes out. You have no support for this other than your own opinion. At least you finally came out with something concrete. You did not reach this conclusion by reading the Bible. It is the result of being influenced by your liberal views. Sad.Quote:
Gay couples can love each other and be as one flesh.
So if someone asks you what he/she must do to enter the Kingdom of God, your answer is to become their friend and get to know them? Is that how, in your mind, a person enters the Kingdom of God? Jesus did not take that approach with the ruler. He simply told him the truth. There is really a place for that. He did it frequently.
There is no Biblical support for your belief about gays. I'm guessing St. Paul may have been gay.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
That wasn't what you asked me. You asked what I would do. Shouting Bible verses in their face certainly wouldn't get me very far.Quote:
So if someone asks you what he/she must do to enter the Kingdom of God, your answer is to become their friend and get to know them? Is that how, in your mind, a person enters the Kingdom of God? Jesus did not take that approach with the ruler. He simply told him the truth. There is really a place for that. He did it frequently.
There is not Biblical support other than the many verses which show homosexual activity to be a sin? And Paul was gay? Congratulations for losing all credibility as a student of the Bible. There is not a single scripture to back up your ideas about gay marriage. None.Quote:
There is no Biblical support for your belief about gays. I'm guessing St. Paul may have been gay.
Uhm...actually, you started the questioning when you asked, "Have you approached anyone to tell them what they must do to enter God's kingdom? Hmmmm, I wonder what you'd say...." So I'm still wondering what you would say. No one has suggested shouting. No one has even suggested Bible verses. You are making things up as you go.Quote:
That wasn't what you asked me. You asked what I would do. Shouting Bible verses in their face certainly wouldn't get me very far.
I think we have arrived at the truth. You care nothing for the Bible. Your belief is that God loving everyone makes whatever a person wants to do OK with God. When the Bible contradicts that, then you just ignore it. So here we are. I don't care about your opinion or my opinion. I care about God's opinion. I would encourage you to do the same.
As I said, there are no verses about homosexuality being a sin. Jesus never mentioned it either. And why else would Paul have suffered and endured so many beatings and abuse? Because he had a skin disease???? Give me a break!Quote:
Originally Posted by jlisenbe
Here's an article for you to chew on:
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/12/01...hn%20Pavlovitz
Wow!Quote:
As I said, there are no verses about homosexuality being a sin. Jesus never mentioned it either. And why else would Paul have suffered and endured so many beatings and abuse? Because he had a skin disease???? Give me a break!
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
Beware When Bad Becomes Good, And Good Becomes Bad.
Please post one.Quote:
Originally Posted by waltero
How so? A person has to die to self first.Quote:
Please post one.
Quote:
2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will ""turn away from listening to the truth"" and wander off into myths.
You already have your Truth/myths.
'You' are a good person, 'you' are helping people, 'you' have a loving understanding of things...it's all "you."
It has nothing to do with what 'you' or I believe or understand. I no longer exists, it's Christ Jesus in me...all understanding, all love all life comes from Jesus, Jesus (the Bible) is the living word in the flesh.
Isaiah 5:20 20Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.
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