 |
Tal, it's clear that's how it works with this admin, they hold a gun to your head and say "hey, that's a nice business you have there, sure would hate for anything to happen to it." Then they make it very expensive and difficult to fight it so you pay the fine and get back to work.
Plus, the key here is it was a partisan witch hunt. Their Democrat donating competitor doing the same thing was left alone.
Again, get your head out of the sand.
Hello again,
It IS interesting that right wingers call the government a BULLY when it pursues a corporation, but they LIKE it when peons like me get BULLIED.
Tal is SOOOOO right on, and you wingers are SOOOOO hypocritical...
excon
That happens every single day with patent trolls, the RIAA extortion suits, and pretty much anytime someone with deeper pockets wants to pick on a small prey to enrich themselves. The system needs to be fixed.Quote:
They gave the bully their lunch money rather than keep getting beat up.
In the Gibson case $300,000 isn't an amount to make the company fail, but patent trolls and the RIAA regularly target small companies and individuals for the same amounts which do cause companies to close and people to declare bankruptcy.
They had Email evidence and if Gibson did no wrong then the would have been compensated for lawyers and such. IF they fought and won, and would have recovered the seized property too. Spare me the excuses please.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Haven't you noticed that big companies always settle to make wrong doing go away. They can pass the cost onto the consumer.
Didn't you pay attention to the hearings for Big Oil, and Apple? You guys in congress slobbered all over them with apologies and accolades as they polluted, and hid tax money. And your heroes the Koch's just write a check every time they screw up, and keep screwing up.
When will the right stop hollering victim, and protecting the rights of wrong doers with money? Pardon me if I don't hold my breath.
No it isn't "much" to them, but they also spent $6 million in attorney fees when they should have been making Les Pauls.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Dude, the hypocrisy is you and Tal's ambivalence toward the government's purely partisan application of the law. I have no dog in this hunt other than a government that's evenhanded that encourages opportunity, not using its sledgehammer to beat the admin's political opposition to a pulp. I don't give a damn who some CEO donates to, that's his right. You know if this were Bush you guys would bust a spleen, so don't talk to me about hypocrisy on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
They should have made those guitars legally then.
Hello again, hypocrits:
It's absolutely TRUE that you believe a fellow in a 3 piece suit who sits on a board of directors, but you DON'T believe a dirt poor Mexican with tats, or a pants sagging black teenager.
We talked about this before... Bottom line is you absolutely believe that people from the hood should be in jail if they sell some crack, but GIBSON was bullied.
That's OK. You'll NEVER admit your blatant hypocrisy, but it's in our archives for all the world to see.
excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
There is no guarantee that they can recover fees that involve fighting in federal courts. Its an option of the courts and has many rules to follow. Putting the business on hold while it is fought out in court wasn't an option for them nor is it an option for most. The email admitted nothing. It only pointed to a possible problem. This type of strong arm opposition that we have seen from this administration is setting new records for the types of politics ahead. Was Apple (whom I hate) actually doing anything wrong? No they weren't. The next time all of these idiots are up for a vote then my suggestion is that any that have been there for awhile no matter what party affiliation throw them out. Make a fresh start.
(PDF file)
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7...isc/94-970.pdf
Tal, you have got to be kidding. Do you really believe this administration can do no wrong or are you just on board with betraying our rights and crushing the opposition at all cost?
That's their problem since they were clearly in violation:Quote:
but they also spent $6 million in attorney fees when they should have been making Les Pauls.
Seems cut and dried, no?Quote:
Gibson also forfeited the wood seized in the raids
No not cut and dried at all. It was a move to allow the company to survive. There is way too much misunderstanding in government seizure of private property. They now want to take everything away for any slight infraction of the law. Its getting out of hand fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
It's not a government seizure of private property. Where do you get that idea?
They took the wood with them. They held it from the company so it could not be used in production. And now they are keeping it. That sounds like seizure to me. Estimated cost to the company for the wood $300,000.00Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
A right wing company that got caught doing their illegal stuff decided to plead down should keep their ill gotten gains?
When there was no proof of the claim made against them then no it shouldn't have been kept. The settlement shows a clerical error not that they actually took possession of an illegal item.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Border guards have been seizing thousands upon thousands of items at the borders everyday for decades, is that government seizure of private property?Quote:
They took the wood with them.
What about at airports?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
And that make logical sense to lose property over a clerical error?Quote:
Originally Posted by cdad
Same thing. This government seizing private property has been going on for a very long time yet the right wing ignores it.
:D
If it means keeping the company open then it was there decision to fight it or not. At this point as part of the settlement it appears the forieture of the property was part of the deal. They had a claim against it and were told to back out to make the settlement go through.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Mostly it depends on what laws allowed them to take items. There have been many check points along state lines to aid in stopping infestation of agriculture products produced in a state. So again its how the law reads and what items your talking about. If it is forbidden or over the given limit then it is subject to seizure.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
but they are seizing private property!Quote:
there have been many check points along state lines to aid in stopping infestation of agriculture products produced in a state.
Yes they are. But here is the difference. The property was illegal to begin with. There is a huge difference. Where it becomes a problem is when they take property not associated with the crime being committed like they do with drugs and prostitution. They take related items in the form of government seizure. The items are not related nor banned in any way.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
What your trying to compare is items that have been deemed illegal and those that are not and saying they are one in the same. I believe there is a differnce.
Same with the Lacey Act. Get the act changed, not the people who enforce it.Quote:
The property was illegal to begin with.
Other then clerical error there was no evidence that proved the wood wasn't what it was suppose to be. How do you justify that?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
It has been amended several times, by Congress.
Got a link that supports your assertions other than what the "victim" alleges?Quote:
Originally Posted by cdad
Here you go...
In light of Gibson’s acknowledgement of its conduct, its duties under the Lacey Act and its promised cooperation and remedial actions, the government will decline charging Gibson criminally in connection with Gibson’s order, purchase or importation of ebony from Madagascar and ebony and rosewood from India, provided that Gibson fully carries out its obligations under the agreement, and commits no future violations of law, including Lacey Act violations.
“As a result of this investigation and criminal enforcement agreement, Gibson has acknowledged that it failed to act on information that the Madagascar ebony it was purchasing may have violated laws intended to limit overharvesting and conserve valuable wood species from Madagascar, a country which has been severely impacted by deforestation,” said Assistant Attorney General Moreno. “Gibson has ceased acquisitions of wood species from Madagascar and recognizes its duty under the U.S. Lacey Act to guard against the acquisition of wood of illegal origin by verifying the circumstances of its harvest and export, which is good for American business and American consumers.”
Linkage:
USDOJ: Gibson Guitar Corp. Agrees to Resolve Investigation into Lacey Act Violations
Gibson is acknowledging guilt. Where's the "clerical error"?
The error occurred in the debate over the product. There is nothing in the settlement that admits to it being illegal. It only states they may have not followed all the rules properly. Im sure part of the blame goes to the exporter of the blanks. That is where the error comes in. It appears that so far as they (Gibson) knew they were acting legally and in compliance. They were the third step in the line and not directly importing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Ignorance of the law is no defense.
I agree with that. In this case what doesn't make sense is that there is no admission from the government that the wood was illegal. They use the term "may" which has no legal standing inside a courtroom. All of this took place outside a courtroom. It was a forced settlement. If they didn't then they had to close the doors. That doesn't make it right for the government to do that on the chance it may be illegal. If that were the case then anything and everything is subject to confiscation on the premise it may become or may be used in illegal activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
You guys want all those illegals breaking the law by sneaking in to not only get a pass, but flood them with government benefits my disabled daughter can't get then have the audacity to preach to me about the law.
Again, why was Gibson's competitor given a pass for doing the same thing?
So much for the few rogue Cincinnati agents defense. What was claimed last week is now hard copy proof in NBC's hands.
One of their 10 clients that still have not received a determination got another request for more information this month - they've been pursuing the exemption for at least 2 years according to a date in the letter.Quote:
IRS higher-ups requested info on conservative groups, letters show
Additional scrutiny of conservative organizations’ activities by the IRS did not solely originate in the agency’s Cincinnati office, with requests for information coming from other offices and often bearing the signatures of higher-ups at the agency, according to attorneys representing some of the targeted groups. At least one letter requesting information about one of the groups bears the signature of Lois Lerner, the suspended director of the IRS Exempt Organizations department in Washington.
Nice try but the spin of the lawyers for their client is hardly objective. Federalcourt sounds like a good place to get some facts, despite the one way spin.
?? I don't believe you actually read anything, you just have that one knee jerk answer for everything. There is absolutely ZERO spin in my post, just FACTS.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
So you agree there should be a special prosecutor assigned to empanel a Grand Jury.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
I prefer a court battle.
You guys just want it to drag out and siappear in the Twitter universe until after the election. You know this is bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:56 PM. |