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Thanks for your standard nastiness but I was referring to people choosing vacation destinations. There will be repercussions to this gun culture. Pair that with the horrible Steubenville, Ohio rape case and people are wondering what the hell is going on over there.Quote:
I'd just as soon you stayed home.
You're welcome. As long as you speak nonsense about my country as you typically do you should get used to getting a snarky reply. We'll have plenty of tourists without you and they'll enjoy their visit.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Well another high school shooting and nothing has been done to stop the violence, except of course, talk, and more talk. I wonder where is that right to be shot in the Constitution?
The ninth amendment.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Yes that happened the same day the children were shot here. The difference is, there were survivors in China.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
So you are saying the people retain the right to be shot, I cannot see that they had that right in the first placeQuote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
There is no legal right to shoot anyone except in cases of self defense. So being shot is a violation of your rights by someone committing an illegal act. Your question makes no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
But it does; the answer to my original question was getting shot is a residual right under the ninth amendment, now that answer was illogical, just a illogical as saying that the right to own guns implies a right to use them in "self" defense. That right was not given to you, the right given to you was to defend your nationQuote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Rights aren't given by government . The 2nd amendment is clearly a right to defend against any oppression and tyranny... foreign and domestic... be it predators, or the government of the nation. Self defense is just a modern phraseology for what was taken for granted as common sense . The founders would not have felt the need to make a special amendment for hunting or target practice. Those were rights one could say are 9th amendment rights.They were so self evident that they didn't need to add it to the bill of rights.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Well, they seem to be given by government most of the time. SCOTUS' modus operandi seem to be just that.
Tut
Hello:
I've known the right wing is bonkers for a long time... Now I see they think they can defeat the US Army with their puny assault rifles...Quote:
The 2nd amendment is clearly a right to defend against any oppression and tyranny
And, they think I'm smoking stuff..
Excon
Yeah well we know what happens when people are disarmed. What ? You forgot Wounded Knee ?
http://www.hanksville.org/daniel/lak...nded_Knee.htmlQuote:
In the morning a bugle call awakened the camp and the men were told to come to the center of the camp for a talk. After the talk they would move to Pine Ridge. Big Foot was brought out and seated before his tent. The older men of the band gathered around him. Hardtack was issued for breakfast. Then the Indians were informed that they would be disarmed. They stacked their guns in the center, but the soldiers were not satisfied. The soldiers went through the tents, bringing out bundles and tearing them open, throwing knives, axes, and tent stakes into the pile. Then they ordered searches of the individual warriors. The Indians became very angry but only one spoke out, the medicine man, Yellow Bird. He danced a few steps of the Ghost Dance and chanted in Sioux, telling the Indians that the bullets would not hurt them, they would go right by.
The search found only two rifles, one brand new, belonging to a young man named Black Coyote. He raised it over his head and cried out that he had spent much money for the rifle and that it belonged to him. Black Coyote was deaf and therefore did not respond promptly to the demands of the soldiers. He would have been convinced to put it down by the Sioux, but that option was not possible. He was grabbed by the soldiers and spun around. Then a shot was heard; its source is not clear but it began the killing. The only arms the Indians had were what they could grab from the pile. When the Hotchkiss guns opened up, shrapnel shredded the lodges, killing men, women and children, indiscriminately. They tried to run but were shot down "like buffalo," women and children alike.
When the mass insanity of the soldiers ended, 153 dead were counted, including Big Foot; but many of the wounded had crawled off to die alone. One estimate place the final death toll at 350 Indian men, women and children. Twenty-five soldiers died and 39 were wounded, most by their own shrapnel and bullets
Another school shooting: California sheriff: Youth who shot classmate felt he'd been bullied - CNN.com
Why were they disarmed Tom? Because they used the gun for its intended purpose? You weren't prepared to allow the native peoples the right to defend themselves against your aggression. But you can be trusted with a gun? Double standard!Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Tom, this is the 21 st century.There is no government or army to fight. All you will do is end up fighting a significant number of the population.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
No matter how tyrannical a government becomes in this day and age there will always be a significant proportion of the population that will support the government. It is usually referred to as a civil war.
Fine... if they want to change the constitution ,then I'm for that debate. But Emperor Zero's flunky Biden is talking about executive orders .
What do you mean by changing the Constitution?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I mean that there is a procedure written into the Constitution for amending it. If the 2nd amendment is obsolete then the Constitution should be changed .(Article 5 )
But you know and I know that won't happen because the people do not want to be disarmed .
Hello again, TUT:
And, it's one the right wing bonkers apparently thinks it can win.? When confronted with the military REALITY that an assault rifle is no match for an Apache helicopter with 50 cal machine guns, they want to talk about Indians...Quote:
It is usually referred to as a civil war.
The GOOD news is the country is seeing, maybe for the first time, how BONKERS their opposition really is..
Excon
Of course they don't. The struggle with arms is a dominant part of your ethos.Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
Lol if it came to a Civil War ,do you really think the military will march in goose step to Emperor Zero's edicts ?
Who is that?Quote:
Emperor Zero
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
There are no winners in a civil war.
Tut
Yeah you're right.. and you have no problem with the government gunning down the Weaver family or storming and killing men women and children in Waco .Quote:
When confronted with the military REALITY that an assault rifle is no match for an Apache helicopter with 50 cal machine guns, they want to talk about Indians...
Some would, some wouldn't. This is what history has shown us happens in modern times. You think you can buck the trend?Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
It's all a hypothetical exercise . The point of gun ownership is self defense ,and it is frankly irrelevant if the government is better armed. That didn't stop the colonists from defeating the best army of their era . Clete likes to point out how the best military of our day is getting whooped by tribesmen in AfPakia.
You try shooting at cops investigating allegations of sexual abuse and illegal weapons, see where that rightfully gets you.Quote:
storming and killing men women and children in Waco
Hello again,
Quote:
But you know and I know that won't happen because the people do not want to be disarmed .
Couple things...Quote:
lol if it came to a Civil War ,do you really think the military will march in goose step to Emperor Zero's edicts ?
I don't know WHY, but the bonkers right wing thinks somebody is talking about DISARMING the American people... I don't know ANYBODY who's doing that... Not ONE person... So, they want to fight fights, that aren't even fights... If that's not bonkers, what is??
Ok, HERE'S what's MORE bonkers.. They believe... They ACTUALLY believe that the US Army will defect to THEIR side, in the war they want to start.
Bonkers, bonkers, and even MORE bonkers...
Excon
Yeah it was Janet Reno's finest hour. They wasted 25 children to save them from allegations of sexual abuse. Good job!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hello again, tom:
Getting desperate over there??Quote:
and you have no problem with the government gunning down the Weaver family or storming and killing men women and children in Waco
In order to deflect from your BONKERISM, you accuse ME of being a lover of government, which is the MOST bonkers thing you've said this morning...
Bwa, ha ha ha ha.
Excon
It was a cult led by a crazy person, it almost doesn't surprise me that they snuffed out the children's lives. Sad all 'round.Quote:
They wasted 25 children
Best to take the cults to place like Guyana where no one will bug you if you want to snuff out 909 lives.
Hello again, tom:
Like I said, you actually think you can win...Quote:
The point of gun ownership is self defense ,and it is frankly irrelevant if the government is better armed.
BONKERS, BONKERS, BONKERS...
Excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I think he is actually saying that the militia part is hypothetical. Not sure where he wants to put the comma now.
It was Clintoon being a strong arm tyrant. They had absolutely no proof of any child abuse. You call them a cult .I call them a religious community . Either way 76 people were massacred by the Clintonistas. But the sheeple should give up their arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hello again, tom:
So, I'm out of here. I won't indulge your fantasy any more. Contact me when you land back on earth...Quote:
But the sheeple should give up their arms.
Excon
C you
I realize you view their actions as very religious-like but many of us do not see it that way.Quote:
You call them a cult .I call them a religious community .
Quote:
In 1959, Florence Houteff (widow of founder Victor Houteff) announced that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ was about to take place, and members were told to gather at the center to await this event. Many built houses, others stayed in tents, trucks or buses, and most sold their possessions.
Following the failure of this prophecy, control of Mount Carmel Center fell to Benjamin Roden, and, on his death, to his wife, Lois. Lois Roden considered their son, George, unfit to assume the position of prophet. Instead, she groomed Vernon Howell (later known as David Koresh) as her chosen successor. In 1984, a meeting led to a division of the group with Howell leading one faction, calling themselves the Davidian Branch Davidians, with George Roden leading the competing faction. After this split, George Roden ran Howell and his followers off Mount Carmel. Howell and his group relocated to Palestine, Texas.
After the death of Lois and probate of Lois' estate in January 1987, Howell attempted to gain control of the Mount Carmel Center by force. George Roden had dug up the casket of one Anna Hughes from the Davidian cemetery and had challenged Howell to a resurrection contest to prove who was the rightful heir to the leadership. Howell instead went to the police and claimed Roden was guilty of corpse abuse.By October 31, 1987 the county prosecutors had refused to file charges without proof and so on November 3, 1987, Howell and seven armed companions attempted to access the Mount Carmel chapel with the goal of photographing the body in the casket. George Roden was advised of the interlopers and grabbed an Uzi in response. The Sheriff's Department responded about 20 minutes into the gunfight.
While waiting for the trial, George Roden was put in jail under contempt of court charges on March 21, 1988 because of his use of foul language in some court pleadings threatening the Texas court with AIDS and herpes if the court ruled in favor of Howell.
In mid-1989, a Davidian named Wayman Dale Adair visited George Roden to discuss Adair's vision of being God's chosen messiah. Roden then killed Adair with an axe.
On August 5, 1989, Howell released the "new light" audiotape in which he stated he had been told by God to procreate with the women in the group to establish a "House of David" of his "Special People." This involved married couples in the group dissolving their marriages and agreeing that only he could have sexual relations with the wives.
Regardless of their beliefs ,they did not deserve to have our military assault them . Where were they going ? Clintoon wanted to show how tough he was and that is the real reason for the assault that killed as many children as the recent Connecticut shooting .
It wasn't their beliefs, it was their actions. I believe your country has certain laws that must be followed. Or is that dependent of the group we are discussing?Quote:
regardless of their beliefs
Again there was not a shred of evidence to justify their massacre. Almost 80 people killed to be served a warrant ? Give me a break. They patiently wait out hostage situations to save a single life . But over 20 children they rush in with tanks like a bull in a china shop. Nahh ,no tyranny there!
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