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Yet this same man, Ken Mull, who is so quick to defend Obama clearly has a vendetta against anything right-leaning. He writes blogs titled "Four Problems with the Religious Right" and you're willing to accept them at face value.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Personally, I'd much rather read a blog by someone without such a glaringly obvious vendetta. I'd rather someone deliver news to me and have it be just that: news. Not a mud-slinger, not a cover story. I just want the facts.
But yet you're OK with the content of the letter. You don't see an issue there at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by this8384
Quote:
Originally Posted by this8384
You are kidding right? Written by someone against republicans? Isn't that exactly what is behind your dude? He has something against democrats.
I think it is going to be nearly impossible to totally wipe personal preference out of media.
To report is one thing but to write an editorial is another. So yes, I agree with you there. It is easy to play favorites.
I said I shared those same views, yet I still asked for them to be disputed. I didn't say that the letter was right and accurate; I stated that I shared the same feelings but I'd like to be proved wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
BUT - I want to be proved wrong by fact, not opinion.
Hello this:Quote:
Originally Posted by this8384
I don't think you do. You want opinion that measures up with your beliefs. That's what you got with the Pritchett letter. I don't deny the response was based on opinion too.
What? Are you going to tell me that the letter was fact and the response was opinion?? Puuleze!
excon
Nope, never once said the letter was "fact" nor did I even allude to that. I said I share the same feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
You're completely glossing over that I'm asking to be proven wrong. That's all I want. I want a non-biased statement which can be proven with fact.
Instead, I get told what I want to hear, which I find quite insulting. I never have and never will be someone who talks out both sides of their mouth, and I certainly don't want words being placed in my mouth, either.
Ok, we can leave it at this: you share the opinion of the letter and others are of the opinion of the blogger. That seems OK, no?
So you're a mind reader already yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Yes, he hears voices in his head that tell him things.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
OK.
So what has Obama accomplished so far?
A huge stimulus package that hasn't stimulated.
Billion dollar bail outs and the ship still sinks.
The KNOWN unemployment rate at about 9.5% and rising.
Used Chicago mob tactics to take over private companies.
Apologized to the world for what a sorry country the USA is.
And all in less than 200 days.
Now THESE are all FACTS.
In retrospect, Carter will look good by comparison.
These aren't just facts, these are YOUR PERSPECTIVE that you call facts. You are a glass half empty kind of person aren't you?Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
So tell us which statements ain't so.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
How about "Chicago mob tactics" - prove that.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Hello again, gal:Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
The jury is still out on the economic stuff. It really takes about 18 months for stuff to start showing up in the markets, so it's too soon to tell. Like you, I have my doubts.
I think admitting our wrongs isn't apologizing. Pretending that we did no wrong, when we did, ain't fooling anybody but you guys on the right...
What did WE do wrong, prey tell?? This God Blessed country do anything WRONG?? What kind of a liberal pinko must I be to admit this country did something wrong??
Well, for starters, back in the 50's we overthrew the elected leader of Iran and put in our puppet. He was mean to them. They remember. They're not happy about it. You weren't even taught about it. I guess they thought if they didn't teach you about it, it didn't happen. Guess what? The Iranians didn't forget.
excon
No, it's not okay. Because then we're all operating on what we think is the right and good thing, and not on facts and logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Then please give us your perspective, Cosyk. What has Obama accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
As for facts:
It is a FACT that when Bush left office in January, the unemployment rate was 7.6%. It is NOW 9.4%, the highest rate of unemployment in more than 25 years. This is despite the FACT that Obama pushed his stimulus bill with the claim that if it didn't pass, we would see rising unemployment. It is a FACT that in January the number of unemployed persons in the USA was 11,616,000. It is NOW 14,511,000. This is a loss of 2,895,000 jobs, despite the PROMISE that Obama's Stimulus Bill would "create or save" 3 million jobs. THESE are facts, and they can be found at the Bureau of Labor Statistics: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
It is a FACT that when Bush left office, the national budget deficit was $458.6 billion. Now, according to the 2010 budget historical data the Year-end 2009 estimated budget deficit is $1.841 TRILLION. That's a 401.4% increase in the budget deficit in only 6 months. These are facts that can be found in the 2010 US National Budget historical tables: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy10/pdf/hist.pdf
It is a FACT that the national debt at January 31 2009 was $10,617,588,000,000 (That's $10.6 trillion --- principal only). As of TODAY, the national debt is $11,373,451,000 ($11.4 trillion --- principal only), a $756 billion or 7.1% increase in the national debt in less than 6 months. These are FACTS that can be found at the US Treasury's website.
What is "opinion" is the idea that Obama's stimulus bill "saved" 150,000 jobs in May 2009. The FACT is that we lost 350,000 jobs in May.
The point is that the FACTS show Obama to be a complete economic disaster in the 6 short months that he's been in office. It is only OPINION that he's somehow been good as President.
Elliot
Elliot,
Wouldn't the same results happen regardless of who took office after the Bush mess?
Cool?? President?
I think both Bush's, Clinton and Obama have and had their own interest in mind and could give a damn about any of us. Dems can point at Republicans, Republicans can point the finger at Dems but it is still the average american who gets screwed!
Hello again, El:Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine
I know you guys want immediate satisfaction, but it don't happen that way. I'm not going to argue your facts, because they represent a point in time that isn't germane.
When the government acts to effect the economy, it takes about 18 months for the actions to start showing up. As proof, I ask, if it happened sooner, how come the inflation rate hasn't skyrocketed since the Fed printed zillions and even more zillions of dollars? I'll tell you why, because it hasn't worked it's way through the economy yet. Give it a year from now, and it'll knock your socks off. Buy gold.
excon
So if this is all Bush's fault, why did he wait 6 1/2 years to "screw things up"? Why not jump right in after he got re-elected?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Yeah and Obama is soooo cool that his effects are happening right before our very eyes and we don't see it. Last month he said that we will not see any of the benefits of what he is screwing up (errr I mean 'fixing') within our life time.
I wonder why?? :confused:
Could it be because it is going to take that many Presidents to 'FIX' what he is making a mess of?
{I remember Obama saying that if he didn't bring about changes for the better within his first 100 days he would resign. Another one of his lies I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by this8384
Hello girls:Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
It's actually Reagans fault, but we can go into that later... You ask if this was Bush's fault?? Was Bush a spender?? Uhhhh YEAH!! Was Bush a DEFICIT spender?? Uhhhh, YEAH AGAIN!! Did Bush spend heavily on two wars, AND lower the income the government received?? Uhhhh, YEAH!! Looks like a disaster waiting to happen - and it did!
Obama DID fix it. We'll just have to wait for another year or so to see if it really DID fix it. I don't know if it did. But, it's too soon to say it didn't.
Chant this phrase as you're going to sleep, "eighteen months... eighteen months... eighteen months...." Say it over and over till you get it.
excon
What exactly did Obama fix?
I don't see any great increase in jobs.
With the things Obama is doing he is causing even more to lose their jobs and tripled the deficit.
I would love to see a list of what he has fixed with the numbers vs what he has messed up with those numbers.
He has padded the pockets of the people that messed things up while taking it out of the investors that were 'guaranteed' a profit.
That's not what I asked. You said that it takes 18 months for a government to affect the economy; I asked you why Bush waited 6 1/2 years. You responded that it's the fault of a President from the '80s. So by your statements, first it takes 18 months - now it takes 20 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Hello again, Saph:Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
The economy was about to go into the dumper. He stopped that. I guess you missed it. Now, it's just going to be bad instead of disastrous.
You're right, though, in that it remains to be seen if what Obama did (and what we do NOW) actually fixes it for the LONG term. Health care reform is part of the fix. If we don't do THAT, Obama's fixes won't fix squat.
excon
He did a temporary fix. Wait and use your 18 month quote before you jump to concluding that he fixed anything.
According to that theory this fix you are crediting to Obama would actually be the results of what Bush did Dec 2007 -Jan 08.
Nicely done ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Besides the recession at the beginning of his term and last years downturn Federal Revenues as a percentage of the GDP were around 18.4 percent;which was consistent with the rate of revenues during the peak of the Clintoon presidency and the tech stock bubble.Quote:
AND lower the income the government received??
It was not enough revenues that was the issue. It was spending ;especially the expansion of medical entitlements.
Obama's gamble of priming the pump by quadupling down on the debt while tax revenues are dropping is hardly a fix. It is a gamble bigger than the 'New Deal 'gamble that failed to bring us out of a decade long depression.
Hello again, this:Quote:
Originally Posted by this8384
I don't know what you mean. But, let me try this... I'm speaking about a currency/fiscal event. That is what the government DID to attempt to fix the situation. That injection of cash takes about 18 months to work it's way through the economy, before it starts showing up in the numbers...
The policies that BROKE the economy, however, started 30 years ago. It started with an idea - the idea that Reagan had, wherein government WAS the problem, NOT the solution. Given that the prevailing attitude was that GOVERNMENT REGULATION was the problem, REMOVING those burdensome regulations would fix everything... But, it didn't. Oh, it did for a while, but it really hurt us in the long run.
Those regulations kept the things that HAPPENED to us, from happening. They were instituted AFTER the Great Depression in order to PREVENT another Great Depression. Somebody forgot stuff.
excon
Agree. I still cannot fathom how anyone thinks increasing taxes during a recession will fix anything... "You have no money? Give us more!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
As Quinn and Rose say
A pizza place increasing the price and cutting the delivery area is not going to make more money but end up out of business.
You stated that when government acts to affect the economy, it takes approximately 18 months for their actions to work through.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Bush was in office for eight years. If this was truly Bush's fault, why would he do a semi-decent job for the first six and a half years, and then say, "Gee...I think I'd like for everyone in America to hate me. Let's screw the country over"? Why wouldn't he start screwing things up immediately? If it was a political move, why not wait until re-election and start the downhill slide from then? Once he's in, we can't do anything about it.
THAT is what I mean.
No defense for Obama but I think that is what Bush did do but Obama is adding fuel to the mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by this8384
We are the ones getting burned by BOTH of them!
None taken. I don't agree, but I'd like to be proven wrong by fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
That's something that no one on this board seems to get through their head. We can have differing opinions, but opinion does not equal fact.
As a random note, I think it's kick-@ss that we have a black President. However, there are a lot of other black men/women that I think would have been 1,000% better for the job.
Hello again, N0:Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
I don't disagree. The numbers showing up TODAY are the result of what Bush did 18 months ago. The numbers are bad. That would indicate to me, that Bush didn't fix anything. As a matter of fact, those numbers indicate that Bush did the opposite - and he did.
I'm NOT crediting Obama with a FIX. I'm reserving my judgment for some period down the road. EIGHTEEN months seems like a good number.
If you're referring to the massive cash injection into the banking system, it DID stop them from collapsing and causing another depression. It really DID - for the time being... It remains to be seen what the result of that injection will be (in eighteen months).
Me? I think it will result in hyperinflation. Will THAT conclusion be considered a fix?? Nope. Not to me. Does that mean Obama is a failure? Nope. He'll get the blame because he couldn't fix it, but in truth, it's really not fixable...
An economy is like a drug addict... When it gets a shot of cash, it feels really good.. But there IS pain coming down the road.
Buy gold.
excon
I believe the following to be true:
I am always telling people opinion and fact are not the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by this8384
I also always tell people that say we are against Obama because he is black, "No way, I would vote for Bill Cosby as President ANY day''.
Well in 18 months from now AND 18 months from the day Obama is no longer Pres.
Tell me THEN how great a job he is doing.
I truly believe you just aren't seeing the real effects of what he is doing right now.
I am puzzled . So if the economic turn around is underway by June of 2010; will it be the fixes that President Bush put through with the original TARP that fixed the economy?
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