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That's why two sponsors promise to help the parents raise the child in a God-loving way.

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That's a great idea, but nowhere in the Bible is that any assurance of salvation.

I have long loved this passage from Romans where Paul gives us the promise of salvation from three different approaches, and yet they all present the same idea. I lean heavily upon this.

if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, [f]resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [g]resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be [h]disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's a great idea, but nowhere in the Bible is that any assurance of salvation.

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You've never heard of Confirmation?

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You've never heard of Confirmation?

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Can you find any place in the Bible where an infant was baptized and thus converted to the Christian faith???

I'm not really interested in religious tradition. It is the Bible that sways me.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Can you find any place in the Bible where an infant was baptized and thus converted to the Christian faith???

I'm not really interested in religious tradition. It is the Bible that sways me.

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Apparently it has worked well for centuries.

"Can you find any place in the Bible where an infant was baptized and thus converted to the Christian faith???"

You cannot, so I'm amazed that you would risk everything on something so non-biblical.

Good night, WG. God bless your evening.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

"Can you find any place in the Bible where an infant was baptized and thus converted to the Christian faith???"

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So we can't baptize babies and children. They will go to hell if they die before the age of reason. And you have no belief in the power of the Holy Spirit to bring even babies and children to faith.

And you have no scripture whatsoever to support your ideas.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

And you have no scripture whatsoever to support your ideas.

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The church you belong to doesn't baptize babies or children?

We dedicate babies but don't baptize them. In the case of children, if that child has made a genuine confession of faith, then that child would be baptized. We don't baptize infants since there is, as we have seen, no Biblical reason to do so. Babies cannot, as you had put it, "accept Christ" any more than they can decide what town to live in.

I think it's unfortunate that you are so comfortable with a doctrine that has no support at all in the Bible and works against the concept of a person making a conscious decision to trust Christ as his all in all. There are many scriptures to support that idea while there are zero, evidently, to support infant baptism.

One of my favorites. "Look unto me and be saved all ye ends of the earth, for I am God and there is no other." An infant cannot do that.

Being Baptized is one thing. Being born again is another.

It doesn't matter what you think or what you think you know.

The boy shall be a Nazirite [dedicated] to God from birth.


Judas Iscariot was baptized after all (as I understand it)? Jesus gave Judas the power to cast out unclean spirits and heal the sick.

The two of you go round and round rehearsing the same thing over and over. This has been going on for years. When will you ever learn? Here we have two educators trying to educate each other...Carnality at its finest!

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Being Baptized is one thing. Being born again is another.

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Correct.

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It doesn't matter what you think or what you think you know.

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I have been telling you that for months. I'm glad you have finally gotten it.

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The two of you go round and round rehearsing the same thing over and over. This has been going on for years. When will you ever learn? Here we have two educators trying to educate each other...Carnality at its finest!

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In what way are you not guilty of your own accusation?

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In what way are you not guilty of your own accusation?

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That must be what you were talking about when you said - Blaming it on the other guy.

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That must be what you were talking about when you said - Blaming it on the other guy.

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I'm not blaming you for anything or suggesting that anything here is your fault. I am pointing out that if it's bad for WG and me, then it's bad for you as well. Perhaps you need to live up to your own expectations first before trying to impose them on others.

I wasn't talking about me. I was talking about you. Why do I feel like I'm talking to a child?

Just like a kid; "what about you"


The two of you have been on here for years, YEARS! One mention of Hell, or Baptism as a child (and many other subjects), will set you off in a different direction. Avoiding the Current topic.
You're funny

You were talking about yourself when you said this??? "That must be what you were talking about when you said - Blaming it on the other guy." Sorry. Don't believe that one at all. It was clearly addressed to me.

Again, perhaps you need to live up to your own expectations first before trying to impose them on others.

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The two of you have been on here for years, YEARS! One mention of Hell, or Baptism as a child (and many other subjects), will set you off in a different direction. Avoiding the Current topic.

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You are describing yourself.

We discuss things. If you don't like that, then find something else to do. You are certainly most welcome to stay, but it's really your choice.

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You're Funny

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And so predictable. You won't listen (you can't, it's impossible) because you are a know-it-all.

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And so predictable. You won't listen (you can't, it's impossible) because you are a know-it-all.

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I ask questions. It seems to make you uncomfortable because you have beliefs not rooted in scripture, and you tend to just make things up as you go along. I actually listen to you rather carefully only to find that much of what you say is not true.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I think it's unfortunate that you are so comfortable with a doctrine that has no support at all in the Bible and works against the concept of a person making a conscious decision to trust Christ as his all in all. There are many scriptures to support that idea while there are zero, evidently, to support infant baptism.

One of my favorites. "Look unto me and be saved all ye ends of the earth, for I am God and there is no other." An infant cannot do that.

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Thus, you totally cancel out the power of the Holy Spirit to work faith in that baby as it grows up, especially with Christian parents and sponsors heavily involved, beginning when I was baptized. I was taught prayers, was read to from children's Bible story books (which I still have), was taken to church and Sunday School every Sunday plus to special services and religious activities such as during Lent and Christmas. At 13, after a year of special weekly instruction by the pastor in a class with others my age, I was confirmed and renewed my baptismal vows plus received my first Holy Communion. This is how the Protestants bring up their children, in knowledge and love for the Triune God and in particular for our Savior, Jesus Christ.

You're simply being entertained. You are not listening. Because if you were, you wouldn't be so easily distracted by the never-ending arguments the two of you have been continuously going through for decades.

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The Holy Spirit to work faith in that baby

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WG, I think you have a misconception of what faith is. Like I said before - "God is not going to do it for you."

Don't you think It would be Both the mother and father's faith in God? Faith in God to Accept their Baby that they dedicated to the Lord??? There are many stories in the Scripture. God is waiting for somebody to stand up.

Read the Story about Phineas. I think it's numbers 25:7